Dear Pew Pews'

[Chris79]

Seems this is my 100th post. Usually I post all light and fluffy, so lets turn things around a little bit shall we


Hi Pew Pews (ranged rangers)

My name is Drilltex, I'm your run of the mill melee class, I could be that dumb barbarian, shifty rogue, pretentious monk, arrogant paladin, boring fighter, or the eerily effeminate bard who makes inappropriate comments and keeps asking 'When will you draw MY bow...' We're all different, but we have one thing in common.... we hate it when you don't know how to kite.

So from the melees of DDO, I'd like this post to be your one stop shop for advice on how to kite effectively.

Please, those of you who know how to kite, please feel free to post, for the good of the community, for the sake of those melee who could no longer stand it. I don't pretend to know how to do it well, but I know bad kiting when I see it!

I'll start the ball rolling with some home truths:

When we chase your mobs, we get a -4 to hit.
When you kite the mobs into more mobs, we may get pwned (DA red ain't good for anyone!).
When you die cos you couldn't handle the agro you brought down, we lose 10% xp.


Thank you for your time, I'm sure the following thread replies will contain all the information you need to turn you from a '**** pew pew!' to a 'Daaaaaaamn, pew pew!'

Sincerely,

Drilltex


edit: Thanks to SiliconShadow for posting the link below. Good read for AAs and melees who might hate AAs. Advice on how to play an AA and how to fit in with a group.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=235309

[sirgog]

A '**** pew pew' is someone that gets aggro, then runs away from the group with those mobs, causing orange alert.

A 'Daaaaaaamn, pew pew!' is someone that gets aggro, then runs straight to the melees.

[JollySwagMan]

As you notice the melee furiously hacking the backside of the mobs you are kiting, try tumbling forwards towards the melee. If your timing is good you can stall the enemies and help provide a few free hits with flanking bonuses :P.

[Geonis]

Dear Clueless Melees,

When we "pew-pew"'s kite, you should remain still in a group, so we can drag the mobs through you. See, with the current mechanics, you are extremely unlikely to even cause an attack roll when chasing a mob.

Thanks,

"Pew-Pew"

[Zenako]

You know melee's it can be hard to spot you guys behind all the damage numbers scrolling across the screen as my "pew pew" arcane archer is clearing most of the field in those 20 seconds. So send up a flare next time, or have the Bard Drop a disco ball so I know where to bring the hurting remnants of the mob hoards to your feet next time..

The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

A good rule of thumb for archers is never target a mob(s) you don't expect to kill by yourself (boss's excluded). Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best. A good "pew-pew" knows those times and does not stick blindly to one style, just like a good "melee" should know it as well. My AA has many top notch melee combos as well, for when those options are superior and uses them whenever the situation calls for it.

[Eistander]

Likewise with the above poster, I do have a main that is an AA and is not shy about it.. on the other hand, I have the fun melee toys too that I like to use. Thankfully I must be doing something right, 'cause the only question I get from time to time is "What bow is that?" instead of "What the **** are you doing?".. I do know to pull to melee, but I have been running into the opposite of the issue you describe; melee not forming a wall of sorts for me to pull into if I feel the urge to not drop the bow

Just trying to do my part in cleaning up the name of the "pew pews" one quest at a time.

[AMDarkwolf]

'bout the only time 'ranged is best' is when the mobs are perched, or too far to reach immediately.

I also just LOVE how ranged players like to stat how 'staggering' their DPS is and claim how they 'got so many kills' When the fact is, you make it pretty hard for a melee to even land a shot.


How about you wait till the melee moves in, trips/stuns/****es the mobs off THEN do your little pewpew trick.

Have to admit, it must take skill to play a build that can do good dps 10 seconds out of ever minute :P

[PopeJual]

The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

A good rule of thumb for archers is never target a mob(s) you don't expect to kill by yourself (boss's excluded). Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best. A good "pew-pew" knows those times and does not stick blindly to one style, just like a good "melee" should know it as well. My AA has many top notch melee combos as well, for when those options are superior and uses them whenever the situation calls for it.

This is outstanding advice and well worth reading.

I firmly subscribe to the you-kite-it, you-kill-it philosophy of DDO combat. If you want me to kill something that you've aggro'd, then bring it over to me and stand still for a second or two so that I can pull aggro off of you.

I wish more pew pewers could handle themselves like Zenako and Geonis.

[sweez]

The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

The OP is annoyed by the kiting AAs. If your DPS were "staggering", you wouldn't be kiting, cuz stuff would be dead before you got the chance to kite it. So.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You know melee's it can be hard to spot you guys behind all the damage numbers scrolling across the screen as my "pew pew" arcane archer is clearing most of the field in those 20 seconds. So send up a flare next time, or have the Bard Drop a disco ball so I know where to bring the hurting remnants of the mob hoards to your feet next time..

The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

A good rule of thumb for archers is never target a mob(s) you don't expect to kill by yourself (boss's excluded). Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best. A good "pew-pew" knows those times and does not stick blindly to one style, just like a good "melee" should know it as well. My AA has many top notch melee combos as well, for when those options are superior and uses them whenever the situation calls for it.

I gave you pos rep Zen, but I don't fully agree.
If you are part of a group, you shouldn't be soloing. There are times (many times) when it's not really about how much DPS you can do, but how well you work with the rest of the party.

This aplies to all classes and is one reason I say a low DPS guy can still be a very valuable member of the team....if played right.

But then maybe I've just been beaten into submission by years of Rgr bashing.

I tend to use Paralyzers more than DPS bows...and just take the low kill hits, but provide a gentler meleeing experience for my fellow party members.

[Aashrym]

You know melee's it can be hard to spot you guys behind all the damage numbers scrolling across the screen as my "pew pew" arcane archer is clearing most of the field in those 20 seconds. So send up a flare next time, or have the Bard Drop a disco ball so I know where to bring the hurting remnants of the mob hoards to your feet next time..

The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

A good rule of thumb for archers is never target a mob(s) you don't expect to kill by yourself (boss's excluded). Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best. A good "pew-pew" knows those times and does not stick blindly to one style, just like a good "melee" should know it as well. My AA has many top notch melee combos as well, for when those options are superior and uses them whenever the situation calls for it.

I read the thread and had to come back to this point. The disco ball does fix the issue rather well and I have had times talking into the mic "pull them into the ball" followed by typing furiously in party chat "bring them into the light".

What floors me sometimes is the DA keeps running up and the kiter is still going the wrong way. I don't follow kiters who simply keep running away with the mobs to heal them. After the DING I tend to make a smartmouth comment along the lines of, "I think you walked into the wrong light. Let's go over that plan again."

It's not that hard to see my flare through the damage numbers floating up the screen is it?

[Kaeldur]

You know melee's it can be hard to spot you guys behind all the damage numbers scrolling across the screen as my "pew pew" arcane archer is clearing most of the field in those 20 seconds. So send up a flare next time, or have the Bard Drop a disco ball so I know where to bring the hurting remnants of the mob hoards to your feet next time..

The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

DPS (Damage Per Second) != DPH (Damage Per Hit)

DPS is a combination of DPH & ROA (Rate Of Attack)

I know you know that, but ranged ROA is much lower than melee. So even though you get extreme numbers, the amount of times you hit per second doesn't compensate the amount of hits melees are not getting per second.

Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best.

If the melees have to pull out ranged weapons to do any damage, that's obviously a time where going 'pew pew' is hurting the overall DPS.


Yes, ranged combat has a place in DDO and can be a huge asset to the group. But it needs to be done correctly. You, as a player, have to think "am I helping the group?" instead of "woah look at my awesome damage, lemme take a screenshot to show off to everyone", because unless you take those mobs down in one shot, your DPS might be very good, but it's not as good as 3 more people together beating on those mobs.

[Snormal]

A good rule of thumb for archers is never target a mob(s) you don't expect to kill by yourself (boss's excluded). Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best. A good "pew-pew" knows those times and does not stick blindly to one style, just like a good "melee" should know it as well. My AA has many top notch melee combos as well, for when those options are superior and uses them whenever the situation calls for it.

I hope you're kidding here. The whole party should pull out bows and cut party dps by 90%?

[Postumus]

Dear Clueless Melees,

When we "pew-pew"'s kite, you should remain still in a group, so we can drag the mobs through you. See, with the current mechanics, you are extremely unlikely to even cause an attack roll when chasing a mob.

Thanks,

"Pew-Pew"

Seriously. I have the same problems with bluff.

ANYONEWITHBLUFF: "Hold up a second. I can bluff that ogre out from that pack of pirates so we can tackle him all at once..."


MELEE: "CHAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGEEEEE!!!"


ANYONEWITHBLUFF: "... "


MELEE: "HEALZ PLZ!"


CLERIC: SIGH Wait for me! I told you I can't heal around corners!"

But then you have not-so-smart ranged chars as well...

SORC: "Ha! I mesmerized ALL THREE hobgoblin pirates, the cleric, AND the ogre! Now all we have to do is..."


Ranger and rogue mechanic shoot at hobgoblins 1 & 2, while bard casts sound burst on hobgoblin 3 - dazing the already mezzed hobgoblin, and waking up the ogre and hobgoblin cleric.


SORC: "WHAT THE???? They were all mezzed!!!"


RANGER: "I'm RANGED, dude!"


ROG: " HELP!"


BARD: DING!

[baletraeger]

As a repeater rogue I consistently draw aggro based on my dps levels. The singular lesson that I had to learn (and quickly) is the same one that ANY ranged attacker, be it caster or bowman, is to SPAM DIPLO! Dropping yourself to the bottom of the aggro list is always a good thing. I tap that diplo hotkey every 6 seconds to make sure that those mobs stay attached to the melee's, and if they do turn around to me, I kite into the melees to let them intimi it back.

But for you 'pew pews' out there who haven't figured out how to use your active skills yet, pfft, enjoy your DING

[Mithran]

Dear Clueless Melees,

When we "pew-pew"'s kite, you should remain still in a group, so we can drag the mobs through you. See, with the current mechanics, you are extremely unlikely to even cause an attack roll when chasing a mob.

Thanks,

"Pew-Pew"

Ah, if only everyone would wait for you to do your thing. . .

[KreepyKritter]

Ah, if only everyone would wait for you to do your thing. . .

I prefer to think of it this way... If the guy kiting is NOT a gibbering moron, then there's no reason to play the Benny Hill chase music because he'll be bringing the mobs back into the melees anyway. If he IS a gibbering moron, then when you hear the *DING* you leave his ass there, and go on about your business until you see him recall out... then you boot him from the group.

[Geonis]

Ah, if only everyone would wait for you to do your thing. . .

Well, I'm not the one whining and whiffing.

If I am kiting something, I will kill it, and do so without taking any damage (if I do by some odd chance get hit, I will heal myself using the wands any Ranger can use).

I won't whine that I can't hit it and demand you play my way.

I will respect others decisions, and let them play their way, including letting a crappy pew-pew'r die if they don't know what they are doing.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Ah, if only everyone would wait for you to do your thing. . .

I see several classes of chars complain that people will not wait for them to do their thing.

Bards fascinating, Rogue Assassinations....others too.

Although I also think a good party will try to adapt to each other, the best thing an individual can do is to use tactics that does not require anyone else to do anything special.

Yes it sorta makes sense to shoot something, and wait for it to come to you...so you can keep shooting it as it does so, and maybe even kill it before it gets to you. And it makes sense that the melee guys should just wait with you, cause if they charge up there, they're just gonne see the monsters run right past them to the archer anyway.

But PUG life ain't like that.
The good archer, should already know that they won't wait. That they will charge right up there......every time. Even after seeing you range pull things to you over and over again.

So instead of expecting five other people to get smart, it's usually just easier and friendlier to not shoot first. Just charge up there with them....then when you see the mobes react....then shoot.

It might be smarter the ranged way, but people don't see it that way.

The Brb next you has thie char that is really fast, and really good at jumoing into a pack and killing everything real fast. He probably is playing a Brb cause that is how he likes to play too. He does not want to wait for you to pull thing to him. He wants to charge!

The Sor next you. He wants to charge too. In fact, he wants to run through the next three rooms and cast one! firewall. and kill everything.
He knows he can. to him that is the best way to play.

The CCing Wizard, actually wants to follow the Brb and cast one mass hold spell and watch the carnage.

The cleric, kinda likes your ranged way....but he's not used to it. And may not even know that he likes the ranged way yet.

Again, maybe I've just been beated into submission, by years of ranged hate. But it's just easier for one guy to adapt to five.

But what I was saying earlier..... a smart barbarian, with a rgr who insists on range pulling everything....should learn to adapt.
Not because it's right or anythin glike that....but because "they" are out there. Those annoying kiters. They exist. They will not adapt to the other five people.
So...the good melee guys will find a way to cope. They wil expect the ranged pull, and just wait. And Intimidate. Or find other ways to adapt.
(of course the ones who are really annoyed may adapt in a way that the ranged guy is reeeaallly gonna hate. )

[TeyaBrosna]

I'm gonna practice properly kiting towards melees right now. My AA has primarily been soloing, but she won't do that her entire career. And you're so right - if I'm gonna be a ranged combatant for even a percentage of the time, I've got to learn to do this correctly.

Off to the Sands!