Dear Pew Pews'

[Postumus]

Dear Clueless Melees,

When we "pew-pew"'s kite, you should remain still in a group, so we can drag the mobs through you. See, with the current mechanics, you are extremely unlikely to even cause an attack roll when chasing a mob.

Thanks,

"Pew-Pew"

Seriously. I have the same problems with bluff.

ANYONEWITHBLUFF: "Hold up a second. I can bluff that ogre out from that pack of pirates so we can tackle him all at once..."


MELEE: "CHAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGEEEEE!!!"


ANYONEWITHBLUFF: "... "


MELEE: "HEALZ PLZ!"


CLERIC: SIGH Wait for me! I told you I can't heal around corners!"

But then you have not-so-smart ranged chars as well...

SORC: "Ha! I mesmerized ALL THREE hobgoblin pirates, the cleric, AND the ogre! Now all we have to do is..."


Ranger and rogue mechanic shoot at hobgoblins 1 & 2, while bard casts sound burst on hobgoblin 3 - dazing the already mezzed hobgoblin, and waking up the ogre and hobgoblin cleric.


SORC: "WHAT THE???? They were all mezzed!!!"


RANGER: "I'm RANGED, dude!"


ROG: " HELP!"


BARD: DING!

[baletraeger]

As a repeater rogue I consistently draw aggro based on my dps levels. The singular lesson that I had to learn (and quickly) is the same one that ANY ranged attacker, be it caster or bowman, is to SPAM DIPLO! Dropping yourself to the bottom of the aggro list is always a good thing. I tap that diplo hotkey every 6 seconds to make sure that those mobs stay attached to the melee's, and if they do turn around to me, I kite into the melees to let them intimi it back.

But for you 'pew pews' out there who haven't figured out how to use your active skills yet, pfft, enjoy your DING

[cje79]

Maybe we need to convince turbine to make bows with daggers on the end so they can melee easier? We'll call it the bagger....or maybe the dow.....hmmmm

No wait, a bow that shoots guns!


*steeples his fingers evilly*

[fuzzy1guy]

Idk... i found a pretty good way to deal with the pew-pew rangers screwing things up for 5-11 other people...

Don't group with them... Take the class off the list. Ranger hits your lfm? Well. They don't seem to be able to read... So unless you're in a hurry. Just ignore that name sitting there and wait for some others to hit the list.
Sometimes they send you amusing tells wanting to know why you won't take them too. Always fun.

Happen to get into a group with one? Ignore them. If they agro it and start their running around. It's now their problem. The monster is out of the way of the rest of the party. Get moving. A good party should be able to roll right along while the ranger stays back 3 rooms running in circles with the trash he shot at.

Just consider them slightly disfunctional hirelings that didn't cost any plat. lol

Damm shame... They do good damage.. But a huge majority of rangers are not useful in a party situation.

[Zenako]

But a huge majority of PICK ANY CLASS POORLY PLAYED are not useful in a party situation.

The way I modified your post really seems to be your point. I've seen plenty of every class one can create be perfectly useless or worse in quests.

[fuzzy1guy]

You can aruge that point if you want. The class doesnt automatically mean the player has a clue.

But then again no other class has stood out as being able to screw things up so regularly that i ever felt the need to take them off the lfm either.

<shrug>

[Aashrym]

Idk... i found a pretty good way to deal with the pew-pew rangers screwing things up for 5-11 other people...

snip

Damm shame... They do good damage.. But a huge majority of rangers are not useful in a party situation.

I think ranged can be effective but many ranged characters need build advice, need to know when to switch to melee weapons, and how to work with the party instead of against it.

IPS and manyshot can both give good results when used properly. It's some of the play habits that come with those that seem to be an issue.

[Calebro]

The way I modified your post really seems to be your point. I've seen plenty of every class one can create be perfectly useless or worse in quests.

The difference is that he's playing the odds.
It's true that any class can be played poorly as you claim.
It's also true that the Ranger has FAR higher chances of this occurring than any other class.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Sorry T, but I disagree here.
Why should the other 5 people learn to anticipate what one person will do and change their game plan because of that person?
Doesn't it make more sense for that one person to anticipate what the other five people will do and act appropriately?

Casters know to kite in circles around a kill zone.
For an archer, his kill zone is the other melees. They need to kite around the kill zone or be left behind, because I'm not chasing stuff they they aren't kiting properly.
When a pew pew kites incorrectly I explain how to do it. The second time it happens, I leave them to die while I move on to the next fight.

I just meant that everyone should try to learn to adapt to each other. In theory a good team will make use of everyone's talents. I think the better players do this already.

In some cases it's just to try to deal with a bad archer. A smart melee will learn to expect the guy to get agro, and position himself to intercept. Use Intim.
Block and make walls.
Not because he wants to or even thinks its a good idea, just to try to make the most of the situation.

I understand I have different views from many, but I see every PUG as totally different. And I don't really like roles anyway.

Just like sometimes you end up with three clerics in a six man group, or three arcanes. And decide to do thingsa in another way.
I think a good group will find ways to use each other's talents.

Majority rules is ok. And it's what I really recommend. Most of my posts tell the archer to play friendly for the melees.
But I think a good melee guy should adapt a little to whatever group he is in.

I think most people, if they had a static group with an archer in it, they would adapt some to allow him to use his bow. To try to let their friend play the way he wants to.
Of course it works both ways.

Anyway. Yes. The archer is the odd man out and needs to learn how to play well with others. But I also think part of being a good player is learning to adapt to whatever group you are in.

[justhavinfun]

Some advice for all of the parties involved.

1) For the melees. When you have an archer in the group don't take off after the mobs we can bring them to you.

2) For the casters. Please let the archer know when FW, BB, or disco ball are up so that the archer can look for them and use them.

3) For the archer. Use whats available. Don't run off and aggro everything stay behind the melees and bring the mobs to them. If there are doors the melees can blok them so that you rarely get hit. Use the caster and if you are kiting use their spells and CC skills by running mobs into a group for them. Don't be the first to fire at a boss let the melees establish aggro first then you can help. Choose your bow wisely such as paralyzers, banishers, and such. Don't be afraid to melee there are mobs that have DR to puncture so get some melee weapons to use in these cases.

If the team works together the team wins. The AA can be a valuable asset to any group if used correctly. A well run AA is one thing, but a well run group is a thing of beauty.

[Calebro]

1) For the melees. When you have an archer in the group don't take off after the mobs we can bring them to you.

I agree with everything else you said except for this.
The problem is that one shot will pull all the mobs, and often there are more mobs than there are melees.
So everything that doesn't get hit/intim'd continues past the melees and gets kited. That's where the issue is.
Follow boss rules for everything in most cases and things will go much smoother.

[TeyaBrosna]

I came upon this thread recently and it gave me a great deal of food for thought. As well as being slightly intimidating, it made me seriously re-evaluate what value I as a brand-new pew-pewer can bring to a group. I began practicing kiting techniques yesterday and I realized that I have a *lot* to learn! So I just wanted to say thank you to the OP and everyone who has posted here - this AA will strive to be a better contributor to future teams.

[Chris79]

I came upon this thread recently and it gave me a great deal of food for thought. As well as being slightly intimidating, it made me seriously re-evaluate what value I as a brand-new pew-pewer can bring to a group. I began practicing kiting techniques yesterday and I realized that I have a *lot* to learn! So I just wanted to say thank you to the OP and everyone who has posted here - this AA will strive to be a better contributor to future teams.

Saints be praised - now take your learnings and go out amongst the server, spread the word, reach out to the needy pew pews... You are my son and I am proud of you



Seriously tho, glad to help - there is a slight trollish flavour to the thread (duh) but it is supposed to tease out some relevant info

[TeyaBrosna]

Saints be praised - now take your learnings and go out amongst the server, spread the word, reach out to the needy pew pews... You are my son and I am proud of you



Seriously tho, glad to help - there is a slight trollish flavour to the thread (duh) but it is supposed to tease out some relevant info

I'm a girl, but thanks! LOL

Yeah, the trollings are a bit scary, but I can understand that it's borne of acute long-term frustration with badly played rangers. Here's hoping that mindset can be changed one day.

[fuzzy1guy]

#1 thing to take from this thread...

Learn when to put the bow away and pull out a melee weapon!

Get the majority of rangers to at least TRY doing that sometimes.. And alot of the hate will vanish instantly.

[TeyaBrosna]

Yes, sir - I saw that bit of advice before I made my Tempest, so I was prepared when I made my AA. My melee weapons are always at the ready, never fear! From what other AAs were saying in this thread, it seems like several of them are perfectly willing to put their bows down a lot of the time, and the hatred doesn't seem to have evaporated... I think it'll take time. That's alright, I'm patient. I'm still learning though, so I hope that you guys have some patience with me as well.

[dynahawk]

Idk... i found a pretty good way to deal with the pew-pew rangers screwing things up for 5-11 other people...

Don't group with them... Take the class off the list.

I really hope this doesn't become too popular of a opinion. Being a melee spec'ed ranger this would truly make me sad.

I use my bow < 20% of the time.

[Chris79]

#1 thing to take from this thread...

Learn when to put the bow away and pull out a melee weapon!

Get the majority of rangers to at least TRY doing that sometimes.. And alot of the hate will vanish instantly.

^
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This


+1

[DelverRootnose]

...when quests were hard enough to require Mele's to actually pay attention and form a blocking wall at a door so the caster could put up a fire wall or other crowd control. Of course this was before even the AA came out and everyone was complaining about caster kiting stuff all over the place.

[Chris79]

They still do, just a pain to grease them in a firewall