Dear Pew Pews'

[patang01]

As a tempest I usually let go with a volley of shots and the odd lighthing strike to follow. It's supreme DPS for 20 seconds. Then whatever survives will come to me for a quick slice and dice. And while I do the slicing and dicing others are free to join in. I seldom kite, unless it's a supremely dangerous group, like the 5 guardians in a Hound that I was kiting back and forth to keep them from going into the middle and a horc running after them with vorpals stabbing them in the back. Meanwhile a beholder and a flayer joined and I pew pewed that to death before it went into the middle and created a mess.

There are times to pew pew and kite and there are other times when you can simply let the hordes come to you. Lining up several targets in a row is a very nice tactics; like epic where you need to get the caster first so I stand there, shoot the caster thats dancing and hit everything in front of the caster in the meatwall. I usually get multiple lightning strikes from that.

There are of course the bad kiters; the ones who keep shoothing at some poor monster and running it in circles when its easier to have the group kill it (faster). My preferred tactic is to take agro before the critters hits the rest of the group and block as the critter comes to me while the rest beats it to a pulp. I also do that in ToD. I use my bow to keep pew pewing the both bosses (primarly Sully when he arrives and we take him down) and any Orthon that spawns in I snipe until they agro on me then I switch weapons for the kill.

I personally think your gripe is with those who simply can't kite well or use bow and CC weapons in a good combination. Melee is not superior in all situations and sometimes they work well in tandem.

[brian14]

Wish I could claim the authorship of this quote:

"Most important skill for any ranger, and especially for Arcane Archer: Know when to put down the bow!"

[KreepyKritter]

So, my 2cp...

I'm on my second life with the same Ranged Ranger I began back when I started playing, and in the time I've spent playing my AA I've learned a few crucial lessons (some hard won).

1) No matter how fantastic you think you are, AA's cannot solo everything. At least not at level. You need a group, even if it's just a duo run, in case an arrow goes stray and aggros that squad of storm giants.

2) You cannot heal/buff/cc as well as full time healers/buffers/cc'ers. If you let them do their job, you'll do yours that much better.

3) You cannot DPS as well as a fulltime DPS melee can. You can, however, hold your own pretty well, and while they're doing their thing, you DO tend to snake most of your kills from the mobs the Melee crew and Arcane Nukers have already significantly softened up. Don't fool yourself. You didn't kill Velah on your own.

4) Firewall/Blade Barrier/Disco Ball are there to help you, so effing USE them. If a caster has seen fit to drop an AoE spell, make the most of it and kite through it, but let the melee's know what you're doing so they can properly prioritize targets. If they know you're going to be doing your Benny Hill thing, and using BB/WoF to augment your DPS, they may choose not to add to the conga line and focus on the aggro'd mobs that have veered off at the casters.

5) Once you have IPS/Explosive Arrows/Force Missle/Slaying arrows DO NOT kite while grouped. It's bad form. Let the melees and tanks run in, and hold your shot until they have aggro. Once they're surrounded, take the safety off and go full auto... Many Shot + the above + a decent bow will level the trash mobs in all but epic before manyshot wears off, and when it doesn't... use your best judgement. If you're about to get squished, swap to melee and slap-chop, if aggro is still on melees... keep shooting.

6) YOU PULL AGGRO LIKE A SORC!! Accept it. Once the fletching starts flying, you WILL get hammered. If you haven't got the high level imbues working for you, you'll want to start kiting into the melee group.

7) Melee's: If your AA knows what he/she is doing, just hold still, we'll bring the fight to your doorstep. If he/she doesn't... we'll learn eventually, and get tired of being bludgeoned to death because we overloaded on Mob aggro and didn't make use of the strengths of the group we're in.

8) Want mad props from the DPS Melee's? Get a paralyzer bow to use on trash mobs. The hack'n'slash half of your party will love you for it, because it'll guarantee proc during manyshot's 20sec cycle.

9) Finally: You have more free melee feats given to you than any other melee class... Swords/Battleaxes are your FRIEND. Don't eschew them in favor of your bow. In a pinch, you'll be glad you have them... Also, it's fun to watch vorpals proc in the Vale.

[brian14]

The correct way is to understand that if a "pew-pew" is kiting something, they will kill it (if they are any good) or bring it to you(if they are so-so) or die (if they suck).

Once this is understood by all involved, or at least the melee, then the melee have a much more fun time.

Hadn't thought of it this way, but agree. You, a melee, are annoyed that you have to chase after a mob? Who asked you to? The archer got aggro, it's his problem. He dies, it's his problem. He whines "why didn't you help me?", he is a bad player and you should not group with him again.

[Phrostbit]

Some really good pointers here for playing a AA, or ANY kind of ranged damage dealer.

But more specifically here's my strategy on my Helve's Angel build (12 fighter Kensai II heavy picks / 6 Ranger / 2 Monk):

My bow is only out for a few different reasons:
*My many-shot is available and the mob is already aggro'd on a tank or melee
*My many-shot is available and I'm bringing the mob to ME so I can finish it off with my picks -- all the rest of you melee feel free to hack their butts.
*My many-shot is available and the mob can't possibly get to the party so I'm picking it off at range
*I'm out doing slayers with a specialized insta-kill bow for that area (disruptor/banisher)
*My many-shot is up and I'm taking out a nasty at range (i.e. Beholder, etc. etc.)

So let's see there ... 4 out of 5 times - MANY SHOT is up. So what's the moral of this story???

If your Many Shot isn't up, and you can't finish what you started, but your **** bow away and play a straight melee. But if you can strategically utilize your bow to lure mobs in and finish them off such that the other melee are only getting sloppy seconds picking off the shreds of flesh you leave for them on the backsides ... then ... then you will be the "dammmmmmnnn, pew pew!

--PB

[andbr22]

I will say there are quests that I simply just don't put my bow into the backpacks. If you run content (even high level one) o normal there realy shouldn't be many moobs that you can't take fast enought with bow.
Sins -> bow is just my best friends (devils port on my back i just jump behind and keep pewining (3 enemies in the way always), sometimes just vorpals :P
Raver - Elies act awfull for melee (random agro, fortification etc.) there is nothjing better to deal with them than AA (dark monks also works good).

[Kmnh]

I've seen a ranger kite and hide mobs on part 1 of the shroud. I didn't even know you could fail there, at the time :P

[voodoogroves]

This is outstanding advice and well worth reading.

I firmly subscribe to the you-kite-it, you-kill-it philosophy of DDO combat. If you want me to kill something that you've aggro'd, then bring it over to me and stand still for a second or two so that I can pull aggro off of you.

I wish more pew pewers could handle themselves like Zenako and Geonis.

And "you activate it, you kill it". Only pull the aggro you can handle.

[sephiroth1084]

Tip for melees rolling with a Pew Pewer:

If the archer has aggro, form a line and let him know. When he runs through, the stuff he's dragging will run into you. Problem solved.

I generally try not to be an annoying kiter, but if I ask the melees to perform this simple task, and they can't, well...they can watch me jumping around and shooting then.

And if your group is light on melees, as long as the monsters aren't big on cleave attacks, bring the cleric or bard in to help form the line, or use terrain to your advantage.


Tip for Pew Pewers:
Try jump-kiting in a tight circle. Your circle should be wide enough that the monsters aren't hitting you anyway, but small enough that the melees you're jumping around can hit whatever you're kiting with relative ease.

[voodoogroves]

It's not a problem if the pew-pew can kill it quickly. It's when the melee has mopped up the dozen or two other mobs and the pew-pew is running around with 3 chasing him.

Thankfully, not too many places where a door is closed until those folks die or the quest can't otherwise progress.

[~jradnut]

I could be that dumb barbarian, shifty rogue, pretentious monk, arrogant paladin, boring fighter, or the eerily effeminate bard who makes inappropriate comments and keeps asking 'When will you draw MY bow...' We're all different, but we have one thing in common.... we hate it when you don't know how to kite.

Pretentious? ...Pretentious?!?

[Adrian99]

A similar and equally-annoying behavior displayed by "pew-pew" rangers is how they react once they realize their hp is low. Instead of running towards the healer, they will run in the opposite direction of the healer as fast and as far as they can, ideally around a corner or over a precipice. This forces the healer to either let them die and get -10% xp, or leave the main group to run after them, around a corner, and throw them a heal, which they will immediately use to poorly kite still more mobs. It's a downward spiral.

[DelverRootnose]

...is that sometimes it is good to have the AA with the agro as long as they are not running like a frightened rabbit. Rogues and all meles get flanking bonuses as well as many items give extra damage then.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

All players can benefit from understanding agro, and how to get it when they want to, and not get it when they don't.

It's especially important for archers IMO. For just the reasons so many people complain about: annoying kiting.

Kiting can be an excellent tactic, when it's done on purpose, to achieve a goal. That works with the party.

It's annoying when it's used accidentily, or excessively....or in anyway that keeps melees feeling like they need to chase ofter things to hit them.

Just because a melee guy doesn't ike it though it not necessarily a reason not do do it.

There are times when things are going bad for the group, and you can kite a whole army and keep them from attacking others.....but if you stop kiting, it would cause people (especially you) to take a lot of damage.
This is a judgement call though, and should be done sparingly IMO.

Manyshot and/or Slayer Arrows do a lot of damage. Improved Precise shot can damage a bunch of monsters at once. And an archer can hit something with an arrow at a distance, before a melee guy can close and damage the monster, or otherwise establish agro.

Think about that before you shoot. You should have enough experience to know before you shoot what kind of reaction it will get from the monsters. And choose your actions wisely.

Common raid tactics use a designated tank to hold agro and mimimise the healing required during the raid.
If you draw agro off that tank, you ruin the tactic the grop is depending on for success.

A raid using a designated tank is not the time to prove how much damage you can do with a bow.

But one good use for your bow during those raids.....like say VoD. Is if the main tank loses agro, and the boss moves away from where you want him, you can hit manyshot and quickly bring him back to the spoot where you want to fight him....assuming that you are durable enough to take a few hits from him anyway.

A tactic that I like to use is circle kiting. Moving in a circle around the monster(s) I want to damage or hold agro of.
Using Improved Precise Shot, and Manyshot, I will tab and change targets after each shot, in an attempt to agro and damage as many monsters as possible, while I jump in a circle around the mob.

This works very well, for pulling agro of a whole army and keeping me alive at the same time.
Manyshot does good damage, and sometimes I can single-handedly kill an entire group of monsters this way.
Or at least keep them from hurting anyone else while the party regroups. And if I do it right the monsters will simply turn in place, rather than run around, and the melees can still beat on them....works better with casters and archers who have a preference to just turn in place. Although random flame strikes or other AOE spells can still damage other party members.

I probably need to re-evaluate whether this method is better than kitiing them away from a group that is in trouble or not. But I would hope that players who are hurt/resing...etc. would move away from the action to a safe spot, and that those who want to swing at the monsters would have enough stamina to take some AOE hits.


Anyway, as a general rule, I think kiting should be used rarely.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You know melee's it can be hard to spot you guys behind all the damage numbers scrolling across the screen as my "pew pew" arcane archer is clearing most of the field in those 20 seconds. So send up a flare next time, or have the Bard Drop a disco ball so I know where to bring the hurting remnants of the mob hoards to your feet next time..

The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

A good rule of thumb for archers is never target a mob(s) you don't expect to kill by yourself (boss's excluded). Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best. A good "pew-pew" knows those times and does not stick blindly to one style, just like a good "melee" should know it as well. My AA has many top notch melee combos as well, for when those options are superior and uses them whenever the situation calls for it.

I gave you pos rep Zen, but I don't fully agree.
If you are part of a group, you shouldn't be soloing. There are times (many times) when it's not really about how much DPS you can do, but how well you work with the rest of the party.

This aplies to all classes and is one reason I say a low DPS guy can still be a very valuable member of the team....if played right.

But then maybe I've just been beaten into submission by years of Rgr bashing.

I tend to use Paralyzers more than DPS bows...and just take the low kill hits, but provide a gentler meleeing experience for my fellow party members.

[Doxmaster]

I build my archers to be a cannon- a minimum of 16 base con and as much strength/damage as my gear will support.

You plop me down somewhere, give me something to shoot at and until the screen is clear of mobs, or I decide I can run and take a monster out in melee faster than I can shoot it down and bring it to me, I dont budge.

2 hp left of the 250 hp I have (at level 12 ish)? I wont move. If I get knocked to negatives, I'll stand back up eventually and if not, I can self heal sufficiently after the thing trying to eat my face is dead. If I died...well, everyone around is long dead, so we're all recalling.

Boss behind me? I wont move. Yes, this has happened. I accidentally semi-tanked a boss while ignoring him to clear trash. Conquest never tasted so good.

Occasionally, I either walk away from the comp with my mouse in hand, the fire key held down or twitch to get an improved-precise-shot line set up during my peak haste+rogue haste+manyshot moments. Otherwise, I'm standing in melee pew pewing, or swinging something.

I am a lazy, lazy archer, but you wont ever see me kiting unless I've run out of allies, broken my melee weapons and switched to my paralyzing bow while struggling to survive swarms of monsters. Even then, I'm probably trying to UMD a res scroll, pew-pewing during the failure cooldown.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

'bout the only time 'ranged is best' is when the mobs are perched, or too far to reach immediately.

I totally disagree.

The ability to do damage to a target from a distance is very powerful, often. Not rarely.

The only valid reason that melee focused guys seem to think it is just for some rare situations is because DDO has nerfed ranged combat for most classes of chars to the point of uselessness for those classes. Therefore anyone who is not ranged focused can not have any fun with it.....and perceive it as only useful occasionally.

[Aashrym]

You know melee's it can be hard to spot you guys behind all the damage numbers scrolling across the screen as my "pew pew" arcane archer is clearing most of the field in those 20 seconds. So send up a flare next time, or have the Bard Drop a disco ball so I know where to bring the hurting remnants of the mob hoards to your feet next time..

The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

A good rule of thumb for archers is never target a mob(s) you don't expect to kill by yourself (boss's excluded). Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best. A good "pew-pew" knows those times and does not stick blindly to one style, just like a good "melee" should know it as well. My AA has many top notch melee combos as well, for when those options are superior and uses them whenever the situation calls for it.

I read the thread and had to come back to this point. The disco ball does fix the issue rather well and I have had times talking into the mic "pull them into the ball" followed by typing furiously in party chat "bring them into the light".

What floors me sometimes is the DA keeps running up and the kiter is still going the wrong way. I don't follow kiters who simply keep running away with the mobs to heal them. After the DING I tend to make a smartmouth comment along the lines of, "I think you walked into the wrong light. Let's go over that plan again."

It's not that hard to see my flare through the damage numbers floating up the screen is it?

[The_Phenx]

My favorite. The Arcane Archer who in his infinite wisdom decided to multishot the devastator in epic chrono before I (as main tank) could even get up to him to start swinging, and almost caused a party wipe.

[KreepyKritter]

Yeah, generally when running at/above level (or on boss mobs) it's better to let the shock troops roll in first and have the AA mop up after.

Just out of curiousity... Was this Epic Chrono?