Shroud Etiquette and why we as a server should stop screwing over newer players

[aldan]

I havent run the Shroud yet, but its coming up at level for me soon. Its the first of the raids that intimidate me, since people like me are so reviled on the forums in this raid and a handful of others. By people like me I mean I dont have the best gear in the game (I havent run this level of content ever), and I dont know exactly what I am doing or where I am going. I dont know the nicknames for things by sight and location and I dont touch things unless I know what they are. Ok, that last part isnt so bad.

Its going to take some work, but I am going to have to look hard to find a group that is actually willing to teach me the raid. It's not that I want to be the point man my first run (or three), but I'm going to need to have someone explain to me as we go WHY certain things are being done. Reading a walkthrough in the forums is one thing, doing it in game is another.

If and when peeps ask, say its your first time. Follow directions and dont do **** unless directed. You will learn it real easy. Oh, and dont shoot your crystal in part 3 to get out of your prison and not pets in part 3. Its real easy to follow the group and do what they do, you'll blend right in and look like a pro.

I hope that you get a good group for your first run, its always the best not knowing whats coming.

[flynnjsw]

Thus my plea.

For veteran players to make the right choice to improve our servers friendlyness to new players by chosing to NOT join these raid leaders groups.

Everyone will make there own choices, but how we as a server make choices will reflect upon our image as a whole.

I simply want everyone to understand the issue and make the best most educated choice.

Easy solution, don't try to tell an entire server what their LFM's should say, or how they should run their Raids. I am sorry, but not every run of every quest/raid needs to be new player friendly.

[Shade]

Seems to me like all this would be solved, if people would start recalling at 5% or /death at 1%. Recalling might be a problem if both healers would do it :-)

Carefully read the OP.

That would result in said player having gotten absolutely nothing from the raid, because the raid leader forbid him to even loot on the way. (except a bit of XP if he wasn't 20)

[Shade]

Easy solution, don't try to tell an entire server what their LFM's should say, or how they should run their Raids. I am sorry, but not every run of every quest/raid needs to be new player friendly.

My overall plea is for players not to join these LFM.

Not to tell people how to run there raids - I fully agree they have the right to do whatever they want. I will make that more clear in the OP however for people who didn't quite understand.

[dkyle]

Looting along the way could, in theory, be done almost as fast as looting at the end. In practice, it isn't. If you loot along the way, people shrine that don't have to, stick around to see if power shards drop, put them up for roll, wait a while to pass them, meanwhile everyone stands at the portal waiting for "the group".

In no-loot runs, people run straight for the portals, only casters or healers that really need to shrine do it (and they shouldn't need to until part 4), and they generally have a callibre of players that can simply kill the lieutenants outright, not saving them for 5 minutes or more while the healers all top off.

From what I've seen, no-loot runs tend to take about 15 minutes less time than normal runs. For the vets doing 6+ Shrouds in a row, on each of their characters, that adds up.

And besides, no-loot is kind of doing the new players a favor: the sooner they learn that not-completing is a waste of time, the better. I stopped doing it very soon after I first started running Shroud. Run something else, level another character.

[Crusad]

Carefully read the OP.

That would result in said player having gotten absolutely nothing from the raid, because the raid leader forbid him to even loot on the way. (except a bit of XP if he wasn't 20)

I've been in some semispeed and speed runs and we were always looting the chest along the way. Going back to all parts for loot is not really "fast".

[flynnjsw]

My overall plea is for players not to join these LFM.

Not to tell people how to run there raids - I fully agree they have the right to do whatever they want. I will make that more clear in the OP however for people who didn't quite understand.

Your logic is flawed; by telling people to not join those LFM's you are essentially trying to get people to change how they run by essentially blacklisting those Raid Leaders.

Again; the simplest solution is to read the LFM. If you do not like what is in the LFM, join another or start your own.

[Shade]

Clarified OP with overall message and added LFM designation information.

[dkyle]

I've been in some semispeed and speed runs and we were always looting the chest along the way. Going back to all parts for loot is not really "fast".

The biggest difference is in the time it takes to distribute Shards. If you don't care about Shards, it's fast to run through and loot. If you loot as you go, the whole group only moves as fast as the slowest looters. If you loot at the end, everyone can loot at their own pace, and the fast looters can get out and get going on the next run faster.

And I suppose some might just go to part 4, and forget the rest of the chests, but I don't know if anyone actually does that.

[Shade]

Your logic is flawed; by telling people to not join those LFM's you are essentially trying to get people to change how they run by essentially blacklisting those Raid Leaders.

I don't want those raid leaders to be blacklisted. Some of them are actually my friends.

I want them to realize that new players ARE worth those extra few minutes of their time and change there ways.

If they never do. That's fine too,

My overall goal is just to change the image of the server and not have people writing "semispeed" BS into their LFMs and instead writing "speed" and having everyone understand that they have no intentions of screwing over new players.

If the hardcores continue to run raids with their contrived rules and the server images changes regardless - I will be happy. I don't want to tell them how to run there groups, I want our server to be a friendlier place.

[Cyr]

Anything that encourages new players to not engage in the time wasting procedure of not completing shrouds can not be a horrible thing.

This is not screwing over newer players since new players not completing are throwing away a large ingredient and a completion towards their cleansing item/tome which they will need. They are much better off doing a fast completion and spending all the time they would have been wasting in the shroud doing 1-4 runs leveling their toon further, leveling an alt, running other raids, or running epics with their toon.

[bryanmeerkat]

Another question occurs to me , wouldnt a newbie at shroud have a lot more pressing matters to do than ransack farm shroud ?

Unless he has stupid amounts of time on his hands its unlikley a shroud newbie would be thinking about dd at end anyway .

[Shade]

Anything that encourages new players to not engage in the time wasting procedure of not completing shrouds can not be a horrible thing.

This is not screwing over newer players since new players not completing are throwing away a large ingredient and a completion towards their cleansing item/tome which they will need. They are much better off doing a fast completion and spending all the time they would have been wasting in the shroud doing 1-4 runs leveling their toon further, leveling an alt, running other raids, or running epics with their toon.

Your opinion. Which is fine.

But you should NOT try to force your opinion onto others. They should decide for themselves.

Personally I only had one character when the shroud came out. I ran part 1-4 until ransacked every week and crafted my greensteel tier 3 extremely faster then I could have otherwise had I completed.

My groups did not even enter part5 as I ran my groups my way and prevented ANYONE from completing by setting the rules of the raid.

Was I greedy in doing so? Yes perhaps so.

The difference is: I asked players if they wanted a completion and I tried to accommodate my groups wishes and get completions in for them when requested.

And the big one: My style of running never caught on and changed the servers image as a whole.

[Chai]

I have said it many times before and I will say it again now. Taking a few extra minutes to help someone on a raid is like investing in stock shares of never having to group with noobs. When this stock matures your group of core players will likely be larger, but your second circle - those people who you dont know you as well, but like having you around because you assisted them a few times in the past, will be much larger.

The irony here is that the separation of the newer players -vs- veteran players is exactly what is creating and sustaining this play level disparity, that the exact same veteran players come to the furums frequently to complain about. By helping them now you are helping yourself int he future.

1 minute before each break in parts is 4 minutes more time the raid will take. If you cant handle making a 24 minute shroud 28 minutes long, dont ever pick up another MMO and invest time into it, ever. Raids take an hour to organize, get to the location, and buff. The world bosses in many MMOs take 20 minutes of beating on them constantly to kill.

[flynnjsw]

But you should NOT try to force your opinion onto others. They should decide for themselves.
.

I suggest you take your own advice.

[Shade]

Another question occurs to me , wouldnt a newbie at shroud have a lot more pressing matters to do than ransack farm shroud ?

Unless he has stupid amounts of time on his hands its unlikley a shroud newbie would be thinking about dd at end anyway .

This isn't about "newbies"

It's about "newer players"

There's a difference in that. Some new players are fairly hardcore and play for many hours a week. They may already be level20 and do not wish to roll an alt right away, they'd rather get there greensteel and move on up to Epics.

Other new players may simply wish to complete every time.

The point is, they should be given the choice. They are part of our community and they deserve that much at aleast.

[lopkon]

Heh

I'm rather concerned by the general attitude the OP mentioned, not by the Shroud example itself, so Ill give just my two cents-

It doesn't pay to be nice. Taking social interaction over personal gain, is a nice attitude, which will cause you to get ripped off a lot, if you don't care about that, because you either have the patience or you realized it's just a game after all, you are in the perfect position to lead pugs designed for new players.

Which wouldnt be only Shroud (not looting along the way in Shroud sounds weird anyway), its rather a general thingy - Giving advice instead of invitations to blacklists, not buying off raid loot for prices a new person should never pay,... Greedy Elitism is only natural, not really nice, but still you can't force a change for other people than yourself

[Shade]

I suggest you take your own advice.

A simple forum thread does not force anything.

Rules in a LFM do.

I suggest you get off your high horse and accept the fact that others have the right to choose.

You choose not to care. Congrats. But thats enough, you need not reply further.

[Eladiun]

Not completing the Shroud is dumb anyway. The guaranteed Large Ingredients dropped in the Part 5 are more valuable than repeated loot runs. By the time you have all the Larges you need through completion, you will have all the smalls and mediums you would have farmed anyway. Not to mention you are that many more completion to a +3 time or cleansing item.

Farming the shroud is a myth like the D-door at the end.

[bryanmeerkat]

A simple forum thread does not force anything.

Rules in a LFM do.

I suggest you get off your high horse and accept the fact that others have the right to choose.

You choose not to care. Congrats. But thats enough, you need not reply further.

Others do have the right to choose , if others choose to do something you dont like you have the choice to try to form a lynch mob against there choices .

Freedom of choice is after all a wonderful thing