Shroud Etiquette and why we as a server should stop screwing over newer players

[flynnjsw]

interesting.... On Khyber is there some sort of phenomenon that prevents people from putting up their own LFM's if the ones available arent to their liking?

Cause on Thelanis, We just start another group.....

It seems as if just one person has this option disabled.

[NeutronStar]

Axer you are out of your mind. It is a choice regardless. No one is forcing anything on anyone. To say that you have to "hope another more normal Shroud comes along" is silly. There are almost always multiple Shroud LFM's up at the same time, and the speed runs are the exception, not the rule. Plain and simple, the Raid Leader determines how they want to run that raid. It is YOUR choice to both join, and then continue if you do not like the rules.

This

[Elyanna]

I am curious , how much time do you think you shaved off the completion time by not clicking on the chest then clicking loot all ?

This system of Speed runs is done so that the people who don't need the shards don't have to sit around and wait while shards are rolled on. If everyone was to hit loot all and move on it wouldn't take long but the rolling on shards slows down the run for those who don't need shards or are willing to wait until they loot the shards themselves.

[Quikster]

I am curious , how much time do you think you shaved off the completion time by not clicking on the chest then clicking loot all ?

First, there was no loot all button when we were doing them.

Second, not looting was never really about saving time at the chest. It was about getting people out of the habit of taking a breather at the end of each part.

When it started there were two popular groups doing this. One was ours on Sarlona the other was Madmatt on Khyber.

When each part would end people would loot, roll on shards, shrine, rebuff, afk, etc and if anyone broke the 40 min mark people were impressed. The not opening chests took that time from 40 min to about 25 for a solid group. Good groups were completing in less then that, and a few exceptional groups were doing sub 20's. One major thing to remeber when looking at these times, everyone was 12-16, greensteel was the best loot you could have for the most part, there were very few pre's, and twf rangers were among the best dps'rs in game. WOP ruled at the time.

I would say you save very little time in a fast group when you loot. It was always about setting the pace. Kill the last portal in part 1, and race to hit the altar in part 2. Anyone who needed to shrine would catch up.

Dropping 15 min off completion times was very significant back then.

[Thrudh]

I have to agree with Shade...

Thelanis Shroud LFMs always allow looting along the way, and recall/ddoor at the end.

We're much friendlier to new players.

[dkyle]

When I left for a while and came back, this new mentality formed. I joined a shroud that said "speedrun" and just assumed it meant what it has always meant: well we will go fast.. I went to loot and got chewed out by some greedy raid leader. I looted every other chest anyways.

If people are putting up LFMs that just say "speedrun", and don't explain any further when the Raid starts, I would agree that is a problem. The LFM should clearly state "loot at end". That should be enough for any reasonable person to understand the requirements, or at least lead them to ask for clarification. You should have been given the opportunity to leave if loot-at-end was unacceptable to you.

But calling for the elimination of, and demonizing, all loot-at-end speedruns is excessive.

[bryanmeerkat]

This system of Speed runs is done so that the people who don't need the shards don't have to sit around and wait while shards are rolled on. If everyone was to hit loot all and move on it wouldn't take long but the rolling on shards slows down the run for those who don't need shards or are willing to wait until they loot the shards themselves.

And nobody in the history of all those runs ever said , " no rolling on shards until after completion " as an alternative option for speed runs ?

Some times for a bunch of smart folk people are really dumb .

[Aspenor]

When it started there were two popular groups doing this. One was ours on Sarlona the other was Madmatt on Khyber.

Technically the first groups to do this were on Argonnessen.

[Thrudh]

Seems to me like all this would be solved, if people would start recalling at 5% or /death at 1%. Recalling might be a problem if both healers would do it :-)

Recalling doesnt work in these runs... They don't even want people to loot the chests in parts 1,2,3,4... they normally complete, then go back and loot chests (either way they spend time looting chests, I have NO idea why they think this saves more than 30 seconds or so).

If you recall out of one of these speed runs, you lose ALL the chests.

[Thrudh]

For the vets doing 6+ Shrouds in a row, on each of their characters, that adds up.

Heh, "every minute wasted running the Shroud is a minute we could be using to run the Shroud!"

[Quikster]

Technically the first groups to do this were on Argonnessen.

Yes, like i said, when it started, two popular groups were doing it.

[Aspenor]

Yes, like i said, when it started, two popular groups were doing it.

lol nice

[NeutronStar]

I have to agree with Shade...

Thelanis Shroud LFMs always allow looting along the way, and recall/ddoor at the end.

We're much friendlier to new players.

For all these reasons, Thelanis sucks.

[Quikster]

Recalling doesnt work in these runs... They don't even want people to loot the chests in parts 1,2,3,4... they normally complete, then go back and loot chests (either way they spend time looting chests, I have NO idea why they think this saves more than 30 seconds or so).

If you recall out of one of these speed runs, you lose ALL the chests.

Even if it does save 30 seconds, so what? If they were really in a hurry the lfm would have never gone up.

[flynnjsw]

If your definition of mature is letting yourself be bossed around by some slob that gets their self worth from pointlessly bossing people around in a video game, go for it.

Personally, I'm mature enough to respect myself enough to tell them to shove off.

That's kind of the point isn't it. You don't like the rules, leave. When you stay and act like an ass, your "maturity" isn't anymore.

[dkyle]

And nobody in the history of all those runs ever said , " no rolling on shards until after completion " as an alternative option for speed runs ?

Some times for a bunch of smart folk people are really dumb .

Because people probably wouldn't follow that complicated rule? "Don't open until the end" is simple. And part of a loot-at-end speedrun is the momentum of moving directly through parts 1-3 without stopping. Once you stop to loot, people will stop to shrine, buff, wait at the portals.

Heh, "every minute wasted running the Shroud is a minute we could be using to run the Shroud!"

When you're done running those 6 Shrouds, you have 1.5 extra hours to run things that are not Shroud.

[Elyanna]

If your definition of mature is letting yourself be bossed around by some slob that gets their self worth from pointlessly bossing people around in a video game, go for it.

Personally, I'm mature enough to respect myself enough to tell them to shove off.

And others walk the line of both. Have enough self respect to know what is wrong and should never be done and what is not how they would do it but is a workable solution so it's fine to do it?

Again I'll say it...

It's not an us issue, It might be a you issue.

This speed run system works and only harms people if the raid fails or someone doesn't understand the rules for it. Do you really see that many fail shrouds by those who run this system?

[Quikster]

lol nice

Thx


I gotta agree with you and shade though. If I wanted to loot, and someone became a dbag about it, I would loot anyway. 99/100 times the only way they would ever know is by reading chat.

Forcing people not to loot has creeped its way up my dbag loot etiquette list. Being so controlling about it is lame. Its not hurting anything, its not causing grief on others, its simply a power play. Of course thats just my opinion, but its an informed one as someone who spent a lot of time leaving loot in chests in the shroud.

[Braegan]

Meh. I don't see the big deal in a few minutes here or there. Besides the time it takes someone to recall out gives me a moment to look over the kill count and bask in my excellence of pwnage.

[Impaqt]

Doesnt it actually take longer to go back at the end and loot the chests? I mean, it seems if you have to run through the whole quest again to pick up your chests when you are "Done", you are spending more time in-quest.

quest finished in "18 minutes" doesnt really mean anything if your still spending 20+ minutes inside.