Shroud Etiquette and why we as a server should stop screwing over newer players

[Chette]

Wait, doesn't it take longer to not loot along the way and then have to run all the way back through to collect? This doesn't make sense. Do people realize that time continues to exist even after the altar is clicked?

[Shade]

It's plain and simple and a case of READ the LFM and make sure it's what you want.

Actually an understanding of the english language would not give youl full knowledge of these concepts about "speed vs semi-speed" Looking up those terms in the dictionary actaully says nothing about DDO, much less the Khyber LFM vernacular unfortunately.

Thus why my thread is useful to educate players who may not know.

[Eladiun]

Wait, doesn't it take longer to not loot along the way and then have to run all the way back through to collect?

Not if you account rolling for Shards and etc.

[Elyanna]

Actually an understanding of the english language would not give youl full knowledge of these concepts about "speed vs semi-speed" Looking up those terms in the dictionary actaully says nothing about DDO, much less the Khyber LFM vernacular unfortunately.

Thus why my thread is useful to educate players who may not know.

How did you learn what the terms meant? I know how I did. I asked. Plain and simple. Onus is on the person joining to ask if they don't understand the LFM. I'm sorry but there are plenty of shrouds run every day that it should clue people on to ask if they see something on the LFM they don't understand. Either ask a guildie or ask the Leader of the LFM via a tell.

[Aspenor]

You don't really save time, anyway. Completing without looting then having to run back through and loot takes about the same amount of time as looting on the way.

Thus, greed isn't so much a part of it to me as something else...

That something else is EGO, CONTROL and SELFISHNESS. These leaders get a shot to their fragile egos when they see a low number in the completion time. They are more concerned about this ego boost than they are about being cordial, and thus they exert control by fear (of being left out of future raids).

You are not harmed by letting somebody loot along the way. Nobody is forcing YOU to loot on the way, as I often would rather bolt on to the next part and clear parts of it solo than wait. That's my choice though.

Enforcing what you want to do on others is selfish and childish, especially when such enforcement is only meant to satisfy one's own self worth and need for an ego boost.

This is of course assuming that things happen regularly as Shade describes. I wouldn't know, personally.

[Terebinthia]

How did you learn what the terms meant? I know how I did. I asked. Plain and simple. Onus is on the person joining to ask if they don't understand the LFM. I'm sorry but there are plenty of shrouds run every day that it should clue people on to ask if they see something on the LFM they don't understand. Either ask a guildie or ask the Leader of the LFM via a tell.

I generally assume one person's Speed Shroud is not another person's Speed Shroud and ask what the rules are for that Shroud if I've not run with that person regularly. Not that I do much of these things. Way too many distractions elsewhere

[Eladiun]

Enforcing what you want to do on others is selfish and childish, especially when such enforcement is only meant to satisfy one's own self worth and need for an ego boost.

This is of course assuming that things happen regularly as Shade describes. I wouldn't know, personally.

Last time, I checked no one forces anyone to join an LFM. There is what an average of 1 shroud every 5/10 minutes most days.

You don't like the rules don't join. Pick the next run.

If you join, respect the STAR.

[Shade]

This is of course assuming that things happen regularly as Shade describes. I wouldn't know, personally.

There not too common, but they are done by multiple raid leaders.. and common enough to create the doubt:

When you join a shroud LFM that says "speedrun" you sometimes get some people asking if there will be a DD, or if your allowed to loot.

There should be no doubt. I doubt there is on your server asp.

It should be the exception not the rule.

[flynnjsw]

Last time, I checked no one forces anyone to join an LFM. There is what an average of 1 shroud every 5/10 minutes most days.

You don't like the rules don't join. Pick the next run.

If you join, respect the STAR.

^^ This.

[Undone1]

Best reason to not complete:

This, because its funny and I have also seen it. (also I'm impressed you have 3 healing tomes!)

But thats besides the point if you think speed runs aren't friendly I honestly would be surprised because I AVOIDED them for a long time because I thought it was "No looting, No DD" Which I felt was stupid, when I actually got in they made a conscious effort to call at 5% and 1% to DD or death out and gave 3 seconds for someone who after (A healer) wanted to type /death out. The no looting thing is also moot as most of the time speed runs loot but the ones I have been in said at the last portal "If you need a shard roll now, if your going to pass it pass it to high roll" to avoid time at the chest.

Seriously its not hard to do it quick and still be intelligent and friendly.

The only no looting speed runs I have been in was a single guild run where I was the pugged solo healer we finish in near (personal) record time and I only have to shrine in part 4. I also run hard VOD runs often and bring plenty of new people along the key of course is to be honest that your new and just join speed runs if you have 5+ toons to run and dont have 3+ hours but you have an hour and a half. Seriously no looting isn't fail its not even fail if your new, complete and you still can run VOD/HOX/Rainbow/Coal for loot or anything for exp (Just in that pack) if you have shavarath then wrath of flame is about as good as shroud (4 min for blood chance) and sins is also amazing loot/min which you can run 60 times! before ransacking.

You act as though (even to a new player) parts 1-4 of shroud are great loot runs. I will admit when only say 200-500 LDS existed that may have been true, however now its a known value with people who understand its value and many are for sale.

I personally fell into the trap of DDing out and not finishing because I thought that shroud was great loot, and it might be, for a level 17 toon who is getting nothing else from other quests, it is but the truth is thats ONLY true when you dont realize how long shroud is when your new (35-40 minutes) vs the length of other quests.

[Chai]

You don't really save time, anyway. Completing without looting then having to run back through and loot takes about the same amount of time as looting on the way.

Thus, greed isn't so much a part of it to me as something else...

That something else is EGO, CONTROL and SELFISHNESS. These leaders get a shot to their fragile egos when they see a low number in the completion time. They are more concerned about this ego boost than they are about being cordial, and thus they exert control by fear (of being left out of future raids).

You are not harmed by letting somebody loot along the way. Nobody is forcing YOU to loot on the way, as I often would rather bolt on to the next part and clear parts of it solo than wait. That's my choice though.

Enforcing what you want to do on others is selfish and childish, especially when such enforcement is only meant to satisfy one's own self worth and need for an ego boost.

This is of course assuming that things happen regularly as Shade describes. I wouldn't know, personally.

Exactly.

They do happen regularly, because they get moaned about on the forums regularly in threads where people pee and moan about speed runs with people looting in them.

I do see ALOT of regular DDoor at end runs on Sarlona though, so there should be no shortage of those. I cant speak for the numbers of LFMs on Khyber.

[Shade]

How did you learn what the terms meant? I know how I did. I asked. Plain and simple. Onus is on the person joining to ask if they don't understand the LFM. I'm sorry but there are plenty of shrouds run every day that it should clue people on to ask if they see something on the LFM they don't understand. Either ask a guildie or ask the Leader of the LFM via a tell.

The order you do the portals is the way me and my original group set it up and decided that way the most effecient way to do it for Khybers very first shroud completions. To this day it has never changed.

Other servers do it differently.

Server mentalities get formed, and they are extremely hard to break. Khyber has one that I think should change.

When I left for a while and came back, this new mentality formed. I joined a shroud that said "speedrun" and just assumed it meant what it has always meant: well we will go fast.. I went to loot and got chewed out by some greedy raid leader. I looted every other chest anyways.

That's not a fun experience.

That's the point. I should not have to ask. No one should.

Strange rituals that are not done normally in other raids or quests should be explained carefully, and not be expected to be known or encouraged. If a raid leader wants to do it - by all means that's his choice and variety is fine. It's just the expected and the mentality that every "speedrun" is like that, that I believe should change.

[Elyanna]

Last time, I checked no one forces anyone to join an LFM. There is what an average of 1 shroud every 5/10 minutes most days.

You don't like the rules don't join. Pick the next run.

If you join, respect the STAR.

Exactly my point. The leader runs the party if they want to run it that way so be it. Don't like their rules don't join. Don't understand the rules ask about them or just don't join. If you do join and ask and don't like the rules politely leave before the quest begins so they can find another.

[Terebinthia]

I do see ALOT of regular DDoor at end runs on Sarlona though, so there should be no shortage of those. I cant speak for the numbers of LFMs on Khyber.

I'm going to stick my finger in the air (I'm not an obsessive LFM watcher) and say that there's probably 1 speed run for every 10 D Door / not specified so probably allowing non completions on Khyber, certainly in the GMT time zone.

[Quikster]

We've been doing fast shrouds for a couple years now. We used to not loot, but that was almost exclusively guildies/friends.

Currently we loot and leave enough time for people to get out if they like. If you dont want to loot, you dont have to. You can go back at the end and loot till your hearts content.

All that said, IMO the bigger problem is the ddoor. This needs to stop. If people werent taking a ddoor, they would never go on timer without getting those last chests. Recall, teleport, or /death out. Ddoors were thrown in the shroud when recalling would send you back to the harbor. This doesnt happen anymore, those ddoors are not needed. Stop.

[bryanmeerkat]

I went to loot and got chewed out by some greedy raid leader. I looted every other chest anyways.

That's not a fun experience.

Ah ok now i get why you bothered to post this thread about a 1 run in 30 phenomenom.

[karnokvolrath]

On arggo all shrouds are at this semi speed, i could imagine not ALL, but any pug for sure.

The difference in time might be two minutes tops to get all the chests, why not get them. Loot is Loot .

[Elyanna]

The order you do the portals is the way me and my original group set it up and decided that way the most effecient way to do it for Khybers very first shroud completions. To this day it has never changed.

Other servers do it differently.

Server mentalities get formed, and they are extremely hard to break. Khyber has one that I think should change.

When I left for a while and came back, this new mentality formed. I joined a shroud that said "speedrun" and just assumed it meant what it has always meant: well we will go fast.. I went to loot and got chewed out by some greedy raid leader. I looted every other chest anyways.

That's not a fun experience.

That's the point. I should not have to ask. No one should.

Strange rituals that are not done normally in other raids or quests should be explained carefully, and not be expected to be known or encouraged. If a raid leader wants to do it - by all means that's his choice and variety is fine. It's just the expected and the mentality that every "speedrun" is like that, that I believe should change.

Ok so speed run has changed while you took a break.

I'm going to quote a radio host here "That's not an us issue, That's a you issue."

Norms change all the time. By the way I hardly ever run these SPEED Runs. Which shrouds do I join? the Semi Speed ones that offer the ddoor/recall option. Do I take that option? No I don't. I complete get my ingredients go on timer and run it again on that character 3 days later. Why you may ask? I got burned enough a few speed runs where I got 0 chests. Did I complain. Nope I sucked it up learned I didn't like those runs and adapted my playstyle to how I like things. Now I don't have an issue when I run shroud I get what I want. "Speed" runs get those who run them what they want. Again all I can say is things change and we as a Human being have the ability to adapt.

It's not a bad thing for our server that we have these "SPEED" runs. I like the idea as it offers even more flexibility for people plain and simple.

[Impaqt]

interesting.... On Khyber is there some sort of phenomenon that prevents people from putting up their own LFM's if the ones available arent to their liking?

Cause on Thelanis, We just start another group.....

[bryanmeerkat]

We've been doing fast shrouds for a couple years now. We used to not loot, but that was almost exclusively guildies/friends.

I am curious , how much time do you think you shaved off the completion time by not clicking on the chest then clicking loot all ?