12 Pali 8 Sorc

[Sephiroth16]

This build is to help a lowbie in my guild. This is basically what he wants so any criticism would be helpful. I'm sure I could have done something to make it better. Also was already going off the race and class of what he was now, and what he wanted to do with the character.

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ozjosh 
Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(12 Paladin \ 8 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 855 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 13
Will: 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            10                    12
Constitution         13                    15
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               12                    14
Charisma             14                    19

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               0                     1
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         1                    18
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                2                     4
Heal                  1                     2
Hide                  0                     1
Intimidate            6                    26
Jump                  3                     6
Listen                1                     4
Move Silently         0                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     2
Spot                  1                     4
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Spell (1): Burning Hands
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Spell (1): Jump
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Force I


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Spell (2): Scorching Ray
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Enhancement: Paladin Redemption I


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Force I


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Spell (3): Fireball
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Spell (3): Rage
Spell (2): Invisibility


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III


Level 19 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[PresentTense]

Mixing paladin an sorc is a rather advanced build, and I wouldn't recommend it for a newer player. It's easy to mess up and easy to play wrong. I wouldn't recommend this specific level split, either, and I wouldn't recommend being an elf to do it. More common splits are 18 sorc/2 pally, 16 sorc/2 pally/2 monk and 12 sorc/6 pally/2 monk.

Beyond that, a few basic issues - don't waste any ability points in dex and wis. Move the ranks you have in intimidate to UMD. Attack boost, enchantment resistance, force enhancements and wand/scroll mastery are weak enhancements. And your spell list needs a re-vamp - the ability boosting spells, for example, are wastes of spell slots on a sorc.

[Steveohio]

^^^ I agree.

Elf, paladin, sorceror just has nothing going for it. What exactly are the build goals? because bad melee and bad casting generally isn't what people want, but is exactly what this build would deliver.

First thing is, has to be warforged. Automatically makes the build 2x better.
Secondly, the Tukaw (16/2/2) or 12sorc/6paladin/2rog or monk would also be much better.

In general to make a spellsword in this game, you want to focus more on the caster levels than the melee levels.
Doing the opposite leaves your spells nothing more than low lvl buffs.

Firewall at lvl 20 for this toon certainly will be of 0 use at all.
Wis should be left at 8, HP needs to be higher, go Warforged, etc.

[PresentTense]

Yeah, Tukaw - http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/tukaw/ - and Sonkin - http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/sonkin/ - are both good examples of how this can work. Take a look at their gear, stat layout, etc. to see what you'd be going for.

[Sephiroth16]

Yeah I figured as much. The guy just came into the guild yesterday. Is a lvl3 Paladin and elf race. And the stats I started with are the ones he basically used. Is his first character I believe and pretty sure he does not have WF or a Monk class. And from me talking to hi yesterday he wants to be melee THF and be an evoker. What about a 14 sorc, 6 pali split? I know the elf race hurts this build, and he started with low con. Is is better for him just to reroll?

[Sephiroth16]

Starting lvls for a reroll.

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Level 4 Lawful Good Human Male
(3 Paladin \ 1 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 88
Spell Points: 230 
BAB: 3\3
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 5
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 4)
Strength             16                    17
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         15                    15
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             14                    15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 4)
Balance               0                     0
Bluff                 2                     2
Concentration         4                     9
Diplomacy             2                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     2
Heal                  4                     4
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate            4                     8
Jump                  3                     3
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  0                     0
Swim                  3                     3
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (1): Burning Hands
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I

[PresentTense]

I would encourage him to play his paladin to 20 paladin, and if he wants to play a sorcerer, start a second character and play to a 20 sorcerer. If he's hooked on multiclassing with a pally, encourage an 18 paladin / 2 rogue. But deep splits are always tough, especially when it involves a caster class.

[DethTrip]

New players should probably play a pure build first but If he really must multiclass and must be able to both cast spells and melee, tell him to make a bard warchanter with a 16bard/4ftr or 16bard/2ftr/2rog split. Since he doesn't have HO or WF, he can go Dwarf for the extra con, extra damage with axes and use a greataxe. High cha is not needed. Just enough to cast spells. For a 28pt build, he can start with 18str/16con/12cha. Put all raises into str. Max UMD and Perform. Rest into jump and balance. Buff and beatdown. He will love it.

[Noctus]

... he wants to be melee THF and be an evoker. ...

Doesnt work out in DDO.

For being a good Evoker you have to be pure Sorcerer.

For being a good THF you need many levels in melee classes.


Mixing both on a non-Warforged: Recipt for horribly gimped character in content level 10+. No fun for anyone.


The 2 exceptions who combine this have already been posted. and are for expereinced players with Warforged as a racial option, and with twink gear and extraordinary playskill. - For a new player it will just be a disaster.

[Sephiroth16]

It's okay it has been resolved. By a little help from you guys. He has decided to have a sorcerer character also along with his paladin. But all of your information was helpful.

[Indoran]

I know the elf race hurts this build, and he started with low con. Is is better for him just to reroll?

Yes. Elf + Pally + dumping con = reroll