Tempest Spine Elite Runs

[VarthDomarr]

Hello All!!!!

This is my SECOND thread post, so I will try and "block" my thoughts as I've been instructed to do for "ease of reading"! (Thanks for the tip by the way).

Tempest Spine....where do I begin? It is one of the P2P and F2P quests that can be really enjoyable OR REALLY REALLY TERRIBLE if not set up correctly. Take for instance, oh I don't know, LAST NIGHT!!!!!

I am asked to join an ELITE RUN (because I was playing my 13th LVL cleric & healers are at a premium for that dreaded FOM). I WILL NOT MENTION ANY NAMES other than mine, Droognyra, female dwarven cleric, because I don't want to needlessly dog somebody, but....

When we began, I said "What difficulty are we playing?" ...ELITE! They said... (and since most were level 11-14) that made perfect sense. The leader spoke with wise comments and an air of having done it before so I deferred my comments on who needs to buff and "Don't jump thru the lava, run through it!" to him since I didn't want to come off bossy!

BEFORE we fire res & hasted, I asked "Is there anyone here who hasn't done this before?" (Figuring I would get NO responses in the affirmative)...BUT 5-6 members said it was their FIRST time......WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!? At that level of character and this is NUMERO UNO?!?!?! Okay so we decided to give it a shot ANYWAY, asked who needed buffs (fire res), asked who didn't know the way to the cave entrance. etc... BEFORE WE TOOK OFF!

TWO characters (ranger and rogue) die because they didn't follow us up the hill to the right (YES I KNOW THERE IS ANOTHER ROUTE). We send a FvS experienced to go get their stones & I will rez inside....HE DIES! So our fearless leader with decent speed and reflex saves goes and gets them. I spend 1/3 my sp pts rezing & healing to max BEFORE OUR FIRST CAVE ENCOUNTER!?!?!?

So I repeat, "Who REALLY has NOT does this before?" ALL but 3 of us answered it was their first time. Besides me and the leader with the star, only our rogue (other more experienced rogue) knew what the heck was going on! Before I could get buffs, conjure major monsters, use wands, explain what was happening and which branch of cave we would take, etc... the inexperienced party takes off! The drow nearly wipe us in round#1! OMG!!!

Now we muster our way through with "only" 2-3 deaths to the dreaded iron bars that everyone says (AS DID WE) "Don't step on the platform where the golem is BEFORE we all get inside!" And, of course, you know what happened... After a few more memorials (and me nearly out of mana), I say, "Does anyone have an extra mneumonic potion to get my mana up?" I hear or read, "What are those?" ... I know it's going to be a long day.

So the Fire & Ice portal opens and we go in...you know the rest of the story from here. However, we did have a good leader who did try very hard to reign in the group and explain things (but people take off). We shout, "Come back to the center NOW!" Two persons die by fire/hill giants because we didn't pull ice first (AGAIN, I know you don't have to). We then explain the plan and the other experienced member says he knows how to pull ice. Now we've already explained the time limit factor after ice's death and then killing fire, BUT....

Everyone goes down the fire entrance and gets wiped (mephits, lava falls, giants, held, etc...). Then they biatch at me for NOT HEALING them or rezing them?!?!?! They can see my mana bar is nearly zero! I rez the two tanks and the wizard, then I'm mana-depleted. So I do fairly well as a battle cleric and try to pitch in with my +5 various weapons (mainly acid or opposite-like ice/frost). THEY LEAVE ME! Naturally on ELITE even with guildship buffs....I die. So I tell the tanks to JUST RUN DOWN HERE GET MY STONE AND TAKE ME UP TO THE SHRINE (after I had used two personal tells to give them directions where it was located).

Apparently, we had met the time limit - just barely - and succeeded in killing ice & fire so the tanks ARE LOOTING THE CHESTS!!!????!!! There are nearly a half dozen stones down by the lava and that is what they are doing???? OMG!!! So the leader says (after 4 persons bailed), I don't think this is going to work on ELITE. To which I said, "It wouldn't work on casual with this group!" ---sorry I was mad---

So I excused myself from the group and was gone. Now I do have to give the leader props as he did send me a tell a few minutes later apologizing for wasting my time and he hoped I didn't think bad of him. He stated that he had talked to the first 4-5 joiners and they said they had done it "with other toons".

Please share with me how in the world a group of this level experience didn't know didley about Tempest? AND... please share with me if I did the right or wrong thing by ditching AFTER all this went down, thank you!

[sweez]

You are... surprised... by the fact that a bunch of lvl 11-14 toons have never done TS? Why?

[ArgentMage]

Tempest Spine is not an easy quest to learn, and those who know it well tend
to zerg it. It's virtually impossible to learn it while trying desperately to keep up.
So, in many ways, I'm not surprised that there are lots of folks who don't know it.

The rest of your story could have been any Elite PUG run, unfortunately.

[VarthDomarr]

You are... surprised... by the fact that a bunch of lvl 11-14 toons have never done TS? Why?

Well, I tend to think that most toons after level 8-9 look for high yield experience quests and good loot quests do get their now burgeoning character leveled up faster with better gear. Tempest Spine and Stormvauld and the House Deneith quests (especially for F2P players), seems to be the way to go AND seems to be the one that least needs explained.


I mean there are ALWAYS going to be newbies or inexperienced toons that take instruction well for a quest they don't know.....BUT Why jump into Tempest Spine ON ELITE as your first experience with the quest???? It doesn't make GOOD SENSE. Do it a time or two on lesser difficulty to get your feet wet. It's my experience that ELITE quests can sort of be counted on as experienced groups or only 1-2 persons need extra help (like the swimming section which nearly always gets somebody lost). Don't you think that is rational thinking?

[Dcloak]

When half the party said it was their first time, I would have stopped right there and asked everyone to reform and do on normal.

Like someone else said its takes awhile to learn this raid and its a tough learning curve on elite.

Also if you want to do elite, make sure you put in LFM, "experienced only" or "must know this raid well or you will be left behind."

[Calebro]

You actually drank pots in a TS? In a pug with a bunch of noobs?
Better yet, in a pug that blind invited you?
Wasn't it clear at the onset that this group wasn't worth wasting any resources on?
I'm sorry, but your rant is /fail for this reason alone.

edit:
Just for future reference, when you accept an invite by random /tell from a random player, this is EXACTLY the type of group you can expect.
Every single time.
No exceptions.

[HalfOrcBeautyQueen]

Please share with me how in the world a group of this level experience didn't know didley about Tempest? AND... please share with me if I did the right or wrong thing by ditching AFTER all this went down, thank you!

I think it's odd that people in that level range had never done it before. I don't know about other servers but I know on mine it seems like there's always a Tempest Spine PUG up, ALWAYS. Almost as consistent as Shroud.

Personally, I would have left when people started dieing on the way. That's usually a good sign as to whether or not your group is going to succeed, especially an elite pug.

I feel your pain though.

[VarthDomarr]

When half the party said it was their first time, I would have stopped right there and asked everyone to reform and do on normal.

Like someone else said its takes awhile to learn this raid and its a tough learning curve on elite.

Also if you want to do elite, make sure you put in LFM, "experienced only" or "must know this raid well or you will be left behind."

That is EXACTLY what I mean! The leader should have but didn't advertise with level of experince desired, and sent me a TELL asking me to join. Before I agreed I said, does everyone know the quest. He said that the others said their ALTS had run it but not these toons...so I figure okay. --- WRONG!!----

But you are exactly correct, we should have reformed when we saw the obvious deficiency in the grouping.

However, I think my point was missed by the earlier responders. I'm NOT surprised it was their FIRST time on TS! I'm surprised they picked their first time to be an ELITE run! After all, if you are learning how to rock climb or mountain climb.... you don't pick Mt.Everest as your first summit to traverse! That was the rationale behind my intial semi-Wall of Text earlier. Sorry, I just wanted some input as to whether I was right or wrong (I can take constructive criticism - I'm 46yrs old so no prob) in ditching the group and whether or not I was correct in presuming an ELITE TS run would be predominantly filled with experienced runners? That's all!

Thanks Dcloak for picking up on my initial thought(s) and thanks all for sharing. Also to whomever the leader was last night, I appreciate your apology, it was nice, but advertise as Dcloak suggests for ELITE next time!

[VarthDomarr]

You actually drank pots in a TS? In a pug with a bunch of noobs?
Better yet, in a pug that blind invited you?
Wasn't it clear at the onset that this group wasn't worth wasting any resources on?
I'm sorry, but your rant is /fail for this reason alone.

edit:
Just for future reference, when you accept an invite by random /tell from a random player, this is EXACTLY the type of group you can expect.
Every single time.
No exceptions.

Dear Sir or Madam;

I didn't say that I drank "my pots"!!! I said (in the game) did anyone have any mana pots for me to drink (since I was burning up all my sp pts rezing & keeping everyone healed)!! Thank you for the "FAIL" but I really think you "FAILED" to read my wall of text closely enough to be that harsh?!?!? But as I stated, I am 46 yrs old and CAN TAKE constructive criticism so I will be scrutinizing my invitations to groups MUCH MORE CLOSELY! Thanks again!

[VarthDomarr]

I think it's odd that people in that level range had never done it before. I don't know about other servers but I know on mine it seems like there's always a Tempest Spine PUG up, ALWAYS. Almost as consistent as Shroud.

Personally, I would have left when people started dieing on the way. That's usually a good sign as to whether or not your group is going to succeed, especially an elite pug.

I feel your pain though.

Thank you HOBQ for your kind words and thoughfulness! I knew when the 2 toons died outside and said "We're lost!" that it may be a hopeless cause...but by that time the rest of us (ten) were inside the cave entrance and waiting...so I thought let's give it a shot!?!? Fire and Ice sealed the deal quickly. Saved me time and "RESOURCES" from continuing through the other dozen or so portals just to find out that... "Doh!" LOL...THANKS AGAIN!

[KillEveryone]

Tempest is fun but my experiences have been that is is mostly a greed fest.

It has lots of chests. It is F2P. It is high enough of a level that the loot is decent vendor trash, especially if you don't have higher level quest packs.

People don't seem to listen in there. I don't care if you die or not, I just want to have some coordination and at least listen to the leader when they state don't step on the platform that the iron golem is on until we have everyone in. I've seen many times that one person runs in and onto the platform and locks most of the party out and those that ran in end up dead. Fricken noobs.

Then the chest area when Fire and Ice is dead, sometimes there is mobs following back from fire. Those chests will be there when the critters are dead but people don't listen when the leader says make sure all trash is dead before looting. This happen in several rooms where chests are and not all trash is dead. Like I said, I don't mind people dying, it happens and I'm not going to hold that against them, but those chests will still be there after we kill all trash and you are not going to get anything better by looting before trash is dead. Just help clean up the trash.

It also has good XP and if you need to get over a XP hump into a different pack...if you have a higher level pack but nothing for this level range...this quest can get you there.

The best runs I've had were mostly people that I've ran with before.

Don't ever use pots in there, even on elite. There are enough shrines that you shouldn't ever need to use pots and if the party isn't listening to the leader and is needlessly dying, when you run out of SP, tell them to suck a pot of their own.

[Dartwick]

Tempest Spine now exists to teach players(including group leaders) that the end game isnt like the levels 1-10.

Deal with it.

[KillEveryone]

Tempest Spine now exists to teach players(including group leaders) that the end game isnt like the levels 1-10.

Deal with it.

It doesn't do a good job of it though.

[andbr22]

Tempest Spine now exists to teach players(including group leaders) that the end game isnt like the levels 1-10.

Deal with it.

I wouldn't say it teach players. This quest is generally easy (compared to Chronoscope), that why it is good lowbie quest to increase funds (and grab decend equipment plate of giants if you are lucky). That why it is often PuGed and rushed.

Players start learn game at Ataraxia I think (if they ever find ataraxia entrance). Deugars hurt (heavy dmg, acid machins gun, very heavy criticals), or quest like wisperdoom, or cult and church.

[Veileira]

You are a healer. You can expect stupidity. You can expect to be blamed for everything that goes wrong when people didn't obey instructions or were just completely unprepared. You can't heal stupid but people like that just want someone to blame.

Were you right? Of course. But that run still failed because you didn't step up and say you weren't comfortable healing that group on elite. So you were wrong.

Unless you just followed along to watch the /trainwreck for /drama in which case I /salute thee!

[Terebinthia]

1. Yay! Carriage returns

2. You can't heal stupid.

3. Never drink pots to heal stupid. Don't feel you have to top everybody off to full health either. I tended to adopt the "Healing burst on me in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1" strategy in PUGs at this sort of level and assume zergers can take care of themselves. If they can't, it's just Darwinism in action. To be honest, though, I wouldn't have passed over a pot to heal a PUG like this anyway, it just would have looked like a pot down the drain to me.

4. You may well get a lot of useful insight on playing a cleric out of this thread, if you have not read it before I encourage you to do so. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=202343

[VarthDomarr]

Tempest is fun but my experiences have been that is is mostly a greed fest.

It has lots of chests. It is F2P. It is high enough of a level that the loot is decent vendor trash, especially if you don't have higher level quest packs.

People don't seem to listen in there. I don't care if you die or not, I just want to have some coordination and at least listen to the leader when they state don't step on the platform that the iron golem is on until we have everyone in. I've seen many times that one person runs in and onto the platform and locks most of the party out and those that ran in end up dead. Fricken noobs.

Then the chest area when Fire and Ice is dead, sometimes there is mobs following back from fire. Those chests will be there when the critters are dead but people don't listen when the leader says make sure all trash is dead before looting. This happen in several rooms where chests are and not all trash is dead. Like I said, I don't mind people dying, it happens and I'm not going to hold that against them, but those chests will still be there after we kill all trash and you are not going to get anything better by looting before trash is dead. Just help clean up the trash.

It also has good XP and if you need to get over a XP hump into a different pack...if you have a higher level pack but nothing for this level range...this quest can get you there.

The best runs I've had were mostly people that I've ran with before.

Don't ever use pots in there, even on elite. There are enough shrines that you shouldn't ever need to use pots and if the party isn't listening to the leader and is needlessly dying, when you run out of SP, tell them to suck a pot of their own.

LOL!!! Hey thanks for the kind words and you are absolutely correct! The trash did follow the 2 tanks I rez'd up the path and KILLED THEM AGAIN as they were picking through the 2 chests! What a cluster....! Anywhoo, I would like to state for the record: "I did NOT drink any of my OWN potions (don't even know if I had any then)!" I asked if anyone else in the group had a mana pot because I really didn't think I'd make it to that first shrine up the ice side (had about 20+ hp left) and I had burned my wands on The Pit before this quest and you are right, no need to use anything other than shrines (there are plenty of them). Hey, thanks again for your kindness & understanding!

[Slink]

This is the best setup for that kind of group:

1 word of recall scroll and 20+ grease clickies.
It is an amazing display just watching them try to climb the last hill to the cave.

[VarthDomarr]

This is the best setup for that kind of group:

1 word of recall scroll and 20+ grease clickies.
It is an amazing display just watching them try to climb the last hill to the cave.

Oh Wow!!! That is too cool! I remember about 4 years ago, someone used grease in Tangleroot somewhere (I think by the spiders & chest to the right BEFORE you go down the tunnel), but anyway that was too hilarious to see everyone slip sliding away and unable to get the heck out of dodge. I bet that would work great on the Fire side of Fire and Ice when I saw everything going to hellll in a hand basket!!! That is too sweet! Thanks for the reminder memories of the good ole days! LOL! Going to put you on my Friend list (hope you return the favor)! TY

[AMDarkwolf]

read your post and... why would u ever bother after that first 'omg' moment you had. YOU knew it was gonna be bad, YOU knew it would be costly, YOU choose to stay.

If I was you just saying 'Ok im going to recall and reform, blah blah, if you don't know what to do, PLEASE listen' or somesuch.

My friend runs these on each TR, hes had varied experiences with this raid, but never, ever that bad. Even with a full crew of ppl who have never ever done it. All it takes is making sure that your clear on what you want done.