Haggletank? viable?

[Kominalito]

hi there. first off i have never built a toon for the forums, but after playing with a full on aggro-tank recently, it got me thinking. i was wondering if there was a way to make a haggle bard into a Haggletank with a healing/buff spec.

i know that i'm off in the "when to take when" department, but i'm wondering overall how viable this build is.

be gentle with meh...

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
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haggle tank
Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
(1 Fighter \ 19 Bard) 
Hit Points: 404
Spell Points: 692 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 12
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             11                    11
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         17                    22
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               0                     0
Bluff                 3                     4
Concentration         3                     6
Diplomacy             3                     4
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                    26
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  0                     4
Intimidate            7                    28
Jump                  0                     2
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         0                     2
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                  26
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  0                     0
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                  25

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Improved Haggle I
Enhancement: Improved Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Improved Haggle II
Enhancement: Improved Perform II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Improved Haggle III
Enhancement: Improved Perform III
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song III


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Improved Perform IV
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Level 17 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Improved Haggle IV


Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music IV

[dkyle]

That is not a heal spec'd Bard. That's a doorstop.

If you're going to be an effective healer, you need healing metamagics. And you need to be able to do something besides intimitank. Most of the time, intimitanking is unnecessary, or even useless or redundant. If you're a Healer that can also Intimitank, great. But that's not this build.

So, start by dropping some Toughnesses to pick up Maximize and Empower Healing.

Also, pick a PrE. You're missing out on a lot if you don't have a PrE. Spellsinger would help with SP for healing, Warchanter would make sure your IC is the best it can be, Virtuoso is... well, an option, if you really don't want to spend a feat on a PrE. But there's not much synergy between intimidate-based CC and song-based CC.

[Kominalito]

thats weird. i took empowered healing, but for some reason its not there now. i can see what you are saying tho. i guess thats the point, maybe its not a viable toon for endgame. i understood that intimidating was still viable in higher levels.

at the center of it, tho this player is a vendor/intimidator. its not really a healer. chances are this player would never see level 13.

i really appreciate the input, thanks.

also - i was going to take a PrE, but when i "showed all" they still werent available in the list. i'll go back to the drawing board and see what i did wrong..

[Valindria]

What is your goal? A intim tank that has high haggle?

Some things to think about.

- Bards still get ASF with shields.
- 19 bard is a strange stopping point. 14, 15, 16, 18(rare), and 20 are good stopping point for bard levels
- WC gains bonus to Intim (need WF and PA feats)
- Bards low HP generally hurt them as a tank
- The best armor you could wear is Medium with WC II and not have ASF.
- S&B is generally weak compared to THF/TWF

Overall I know someone was trying to make a High AC decent Intim bard. I am not sure how it ended up.


High Intim Bard:
14/6 bard fighter WC II, SD I might work

1 Toughness
1. Toughness (Human bonus?)
3 Skill Focus: Intim
6 BullHead
9 Extend spell
12 Improved Crit
15 Toughness
18 Toughness

F1 Shield Mastery
F2 Improved Shield Mastery
F4 PA
F6 WF


Something like that would have lots of toughness to help out with the lack of HP. Has PA/iCrit for increased damage. Has shield feats and improved intimidate feats. Is it viable? I don't know. There are probably better tanks and better bards.


Other ideas would be 12 Fighter/8 Bard SD II WC I

Edit:

Here are the builds. The 2nd one is a high AC Intim bard. Crazy gear so not something a new person could do fast. The 1st is the build I was thinking of. I am not sure whatever came of it but enjoy.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=278765

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=274214

[Kominalito]

thats awesome, exacdtly what i was looking for ty!

the goal for the build was to generally be a turtle, to cast a few heals and to haggle. thats why the str was so low. the way people put stress on DPS in the game, if my str is nt at least 16, i would never be considered a contributing factor, so instead, i thought maybe an attention getter with the ability to heal after big fights would be viable. and like i said, i have no intention of levelling past 12. so stopping at 16, 18, 19 or 20 doesnt really apply ;P i have a main that i play regularly, this was just an idea for a haggler, but to have something to contribute aside from swinging, or cc.

and tbh, i've never played a bard before, hence this thread. so all the knowledge is really appreciate, thanks!

d

[Jaid314]

intimitanks aren't useless in a lot of places, i mean, it's like any form of CC or defensive buff.

but, the thing is... most of the time intimidate is not the *best* form of CC. web or dancing sphere allow multiple attempts with a single spell, and prevent mobs from acting at all, not just makes them do less damage. likewise with hypnotism, fascinate, etc. hold/petrify/stun not only prevents the mob from acting, it puts them into autocrit. where it can actually work, finger of death/wail of the banshee/banishment/disruption/etc will simply remove the opponent from the fight.

the main benefit to intimidate is that there are fewer blanket immunities to it. it can even work on raid bosses, regular bosses, etc.

and it's only really the best choice in those situations, and then it's basically only because it's the *only* choice.

and for it to be even worthwhile, you need to have something that makes it worthwhile for *you* to be the target. high AC and bard, sadly enough, don't quite go together flawlessly. nor does bard and high DR. or high healing amp. oh, you *can* get respectable DR, AC, and healing amp certainly. it's not impossible. it's gonna be a lot of sacrificing to get all the stuff you need for high intimidate, high AC, high DR, and high healing amp on a bard though. even getting just *some* of those things is tricky.

(alternately, you could just make a damaging guard build, but at this point... well, let's just say you're not going to be any better at that than anyone else. probably worse, actually, since you won't be as good at minimizing incoming damage)

why not just make a haggle bard that's good at being a bard? there's nothing wrong with song-based CC, healing, buffing, decent-to-good fighting ability, or decent-to-good spell CC ability.

[Purgatory]

Are you trying to build something like this?

[Teharahma]

Are you trying to build something like this?

You bragger xD

I would love to get buildinfo on that build :3

[Purgatory]

You bragger xD

I would love to get buildinfo on that build :3

alot of planing and good gear knowledge and time to grind it.

Build fairly simple tho, i think i started with 17 str, 16 dex, 16 con 11 int rest went to chr put all lvl up into str, use +2 int tome and grind out +3 in all the other spots

Take power attack, dodge, toughness, combat expertise, skill focus intim, bull headed, maxamize, weapon focus slashing.

max out dwarven armor mastery, dwarven con, toughness, songs, take warchanter I and II rest just falls into place

and the gear =

Epic Gem of Macy Facit / Dis imunity

Epic Boots of Corrosion / +2 good luck, +6 wisdom

Epic Ring of the Silver Concord/ + 1 exp chr, Alchemical Resistance +1

Epic Hyena Claw Neclace / +6 dexterity

Epic Gloves of the Claw / no slots

Epic Chimera's Crown / +1 exp Str, feather fall

Epic Belt of the Mroranon / GFL

Epic Kundarak W. Shield / +7, Greater Arcane Casting Dexterity, Alchemical Shield Defense

Epic Demon Scale / +7, Alchemical Armor Defense

GreenSteal Cloak / +6 dex skills, Air guard, +45 HP

GreenSteal Googles / +6 chr skill, wizadry VI, spell power 50 & 100

GreenSteal Dwarven Axe/ Min II w/ +4 insight AC

Epic Hellstroke Great Axe/ Augment Crystal of Devil's Ruin

Chaosegarde

Chattering Ring

simple as that

[NaturalHazard]

alot of planing and good gear knowledge and time to grind it

how much time? it looks like months

[Jaid314]

yeah, was gonna say... that's a lot of purple gear. seems like a lot of work to just get a haggle bard. although, in the current SS, your haggle isn't all that great :P