Tring ranger - which race?

[Yajerman01]

I am thinking about Tr'ing my 12/6/2 Fighter/monk Ranger AGAIN, this time into a Strength build Arcane Archer. I have run the numbers as a Human and Elf and a Dwarf through Ron's character creator, and foregoing all the numbers and how i set my build up it comes down to this:

ELF: (Using Khopesh)

Pros: +2 damage to range (that would be near or equal to +10 damager per round on manyshot)
+2 to-hit with range
+2 dexterity

Cons:

With a starting 15 con I will be under 492 hp with current gear (excluding buffs)
I will have 20+ less SP (to human)
-1 to saves in Fort and Will (Compared to Human and Dwarf)


HUMAN: (using Khopesh)

Pros:

+%20 healing amp
+1 con
+1 Str
Extra Feat
highest base mana

Cons:

-1 to saves in Reflex and Fortitude (compared to Dwarf and Elf)
-30 hp compared to Dwarf

DWARF: (using DA)

Pros:

+2 Axe Damage
+2 Axe attack
+2 Con
+20 hp from toughness IV
Highest HP (pushing him to 532 without buffs)

Cons:

-1 reflex (compared to Elf)
-20 SP (compared to Human)
-1 STr (compared to Human)

Obviously the Dwarf brings better TWF base damage and higher HP. Human brings better healing amp and is equal with damage by use of Khopesh. Elf is the redhead but has good higher Bow damage.

I would like some of you to weigh in on this and any additional thought you want to add.

thanx in advance.

[grodon9999]

Starting from scratch . . . and considering the Dwarven Defender PRE should be seen in a mod or two . . . I'd go dwarf 18/1/1 Exploiter build. D-Axes are cheap good weapons and your EXTRA CON/toughness help make for a non-squishy ranger.

I'd make one of these but I already got two Exploiters. Three would just be silly.

[Yajerman01]

Starting from scratch . . . and considering the Dwarven Defender PRE should be seen in a mod or two . . . I'd go dwarf 18/1/1 Exploiter build. D-Axes are cheap good weapons and your EXTRA CON/toughness help make for a non-squishy ranger.

I'd make one of these but I already got two Exploiters. Three would just be silly.

I was actually looking at the exploiter but in the end opted for the 2 monk for the extra feat(s), i.e. PA and Toughness. my UMD will be high enough for standard things. I will solo alot of things so the SA will be irrelevant. I wanted to squeeze in quicken, maximize and empower healing for tough solo endbossing quests. mana pots and a concordant will be my freinds for that.

Human was my second choice because I already use Khopeshes on my current build.

[hermespan]

HUMAN: (using Khopesh)

Pros:

+%20 healing amp
+1 con
+1 Str
highest base mana

Cons:

-1 to saves in Reflex and Fortitude (compared to Dwarf and Elf)
-30 hp compared to Dwarf

Human also gets a racial bonus feat. As far as reflex saves go, +1 doesn't beat an extra feat IMHO.

I have a human exploiter that is a little con challenged. His HP are only 420 raid buffed. He doesn't die much unless there's a party wipe. Of course when I TR him I have a +3 con tome banked for the TR, so his con before enhancements will be 17. Human racial +1 con will bump that to 18, +6 item, +2 ship buffs, +2 exceptional will take it to 28 standing before raid buffs to 480 HP with a minos legens, 505 with a greensteel hp helm, then 525 with buffs, along with whatever other minor HP bonuses you can squeeze in. Because of evasion and the high reflex saves of this build that is really all you need unless you plan to be a main tank.

On a TR human, hp and fort saves won't be an issue as long as you do a couple of raids to 20ths and get a +3 con tome. IMHO how well your build works isn't really race dependent (warforged tanks and archmage wizards being a big exception). If it is, the build has an issue. You can make up for whatever inadequacies one race has over another with tomes, gear and equipment (again outside of WF) which are all within reasonable reach. However, it's hard to beat that extra feat that human gets. It's a biggie. On my build I used it for IC:Pierce for grinding greensteel blank ingredients in vale. 15-20 crit range on GTWF banishing rapiers with a blood stone is simply ridiculous. I regularly see 180:30 kill counts in vale quests. Not many other TWF builds outside of fighter can afford the feat to do that.

I also lead kill counts among melees a lot in shroud and amrath when I bring my A game. Vorpal kamas + fire stance for +2 str. This is a nasty build. We are ranked kind of badly in dps rankings but there's a lot a simple dps ranking doesn't account for, like players with exploiter characters that actually use their monk abilities and weapon proficiencies to maximum effect.

Next go round I'll find something even better since I won't need to grind greensteel. That's kind of why I want to build all my green steel before TRing. I could go crazy and take a second toughness and just skip meridia altogether ;-) I haven't put much thought into it yet. That would nullify any advantage of going dwarf, except for the racial dwarven axe enhancements, which are quite considerable. However, again, I've already built a set of greensteel khopeshs (1.5 Lit II and 2 Min II), so going dwarf would be a big mistake for me. I'm finishing up this lit II, building a greensteel helm and becoming born again as human.

[Yajerman01]

Human also gets a racial bonus feat

true, accounted it for khopesh but didnt add it on the ledger.

thanks will edit.

[PNellesen]

I've got both an Elf Pure Ranger (19) and a Dwarf 8/2 Ranger/Fighter. Of the two, the Dwarf is most definitely the most powerful and toughest, though he tends to miss more often than I like (he's all STR and CON, with enough WIS to cast spells with a Wis item on, and enough DEX to qualify for Tempest) When he's TWFing with two Dwarven Axes, things tend to die FAST. (Both were 28pt builds, btw - didn't get 32pt builds until the Elf hit 1750 favor)

I agree with grodon9999 - a Dwarf Exploiter might be something to look at in your case.

[grodon9999]

I was actually looking at the exploiter but in the end opted for the 2 monk for the extra feat(s), i.e. PA and Toughness. my UMD will be high enough for standard things. I will solo alot of things so the SA will be irrelevant. I wanted to squeeze in quicken, maximize and empower healing for tough solo endbossing quests. mana pots and a concordant will be my freinds for that.

Human was my second choice because I already use Khopeshes on my current build.

Ranger 18/Monk 2 dwarf with the Dwarven Defnder PRE = very bad-assed hate-tank potential. High AC, good HP, very good DPS. Only boss who'd be a pain to handle is Horoth because of the HP requirements but this looks good.

[Yajerman01]

Human also gets a racial bonus feat. As far as reflex saves go, +1 doesn't beat an extra feat IMHO.
I agree, the extra feat is nice and do nto disagree. The dwarf version already has DA which negates that effect for me since I would be primarily be using that extra feat for Khopesh. More problematic for me is the fact that I already have GS khopeshes and all other types of Khopeshes whihc puts the human extra feat at the advantage for me.

IMHO how well your build works isn't really race dependent. I agree. In fact the quality of the skilled player is what makes races even more negligible. I identified the three races I wittled down to was for what those races bring to the table that appeal to me though.

Next go round I'll find something even better since I won't need to grind greensteel next go round.

Responses in yellow

[Yajerman01]

Dwarven Defnder PRE

I am not privy to what that brings to the table. DO you have additional information and/or projected action points that would entail? You said next mod or 2? sounds intriguing.

[ballsz]

If you are going AA go Elven, 492 is not a squishy ranger. My AA is sitting around 500hp pure elven AA, even soloing thats enough hp, and if you get into a tight spot, an extra 30 hp prolly isn't going to make the difference between success and failure. However, the extra damage can. Just my humble opinion though.

[grodon9999]

Ahh, I didn't read the "AA' part. if you're going AA go elf.

[Glenalth]

I am not privy to what that brings to the table. DO you have additional information and/or projected action points that would entail? You said next mod or 2? sounds intriguing.

I don't think we have any DDO info on it yet other than it will count as a Fighter PrE.

Chances are it will be very similar if not exactly like the Stalwart Defender PrE for Fighters.

[Yajerman01]

If you are going AA go Elven, 492 is not a squishy ranger. My AA is sitting around 500hp pure elven AA, even soloing thats enough hp, and if you get into a tight spot, an extra 30 hp prolly isn't going to make the difference between success and failure. However, the extra damage can. Just my humble opinion though.

Yeah 40hp overall, but see thats why I am torn. The elven bow damag adds up fast and the khopeshes I already have made for close quarter combat. I was also thinking scimis because of the elven enhancements but im stretched thin already on my enhancement list.

i was almost set into the dwarf until you came along! lol.

thanx for the imput though, much appreciated

[Yajerman01]

Ahh, I didn't read the "AA' part. if you're going AA go elf.

Bah see how you are! lol. By nature I am melee oriented, I believe in the sword put down first before anything. I want AA more for flavor when I solo in order to snuff things out faster at range. In group I like to be up on opponents more, thats why base TWF damage was more of an interest, hence dwarf/human.

[Yajerman01]

you know in looking at a half-elf with barbarian dillitant i get mostly everything i want - i do loose the extra feat but actually gain 40 more hp and keep everything virtually the same as the human. - o my o my. I dont know if I can bare to look at a ken doll though

[Arsont]

If you're looking for a solo-friendly and versatile AA, I'm pretty fond of my Pewpew Fu build. I actually used falchions/rapiers up until around level 7 or so, then switched to fists (Ranged is kinda sad until Manyshot in a lot of the content by then anyhow). Alternatively, I think an elven AA exploiter type build would work pretty well; with a bit of gear it's pretty easy to UMD even lv 10 shield wands, so some of the draw from Tempest III goes away. I have a build like that here. Easily adapted to human if you wanted to use khopeshses; drop IP:Pierce and pick up Khopesh (Might want to take Toughness later though or something). Or, of course, you could consider 18/1/1 rng/mnk/ftr. Or, finally, you could just go a pure AA (Capstone is nice, regardless of it only giving ~half expected value). Main thing would be to aim for at least a 30/30 str dex by endgame. In which case I'd suggest elf and a 17 starting dex or so, level ups to str.

But, to agree with several of the other posters, I think an exploiter-esque build would be something to look into.

Good luck!