Hate Tanking, how to? (On a Soul Survivor or otherwise)

[wax_on_wax_off]

So I'm playing a Soul Survivor and just got my wings (woo hoo). Basically, I'm curious to know whether it is possible to hate tank yet or if I will need more gear to keep up with DPS classes.

I got talked into hate tanking VoD on normal and it was fine for 3/4 of the fight until the arcane ran out of SP (he didn't have scrolls). However, I'm fairly certain that the melees had to probably turn off power attack.

I just finished my DT and currently have hate +10%, crushing wave guard, Hate +20% (I need to get another tier 2). I have max in WF power attack and brute fighting. I have a +2 silver frost pure good GS (and other boss beaters).

I guess it is a pure numbers game. At the moment I have +10%, +20%, +25% hate generation from abilities and items. I have 17 + level ups + 2 tome into strength (+6 with divine power). I don't have any high damage greatswords yet besides greater bane ones (giant, dragon and aberration).

Along with regular good to moderately geared DPS builds can I expect to hate tank before I get geared up? Do I have to go straight to a MinII or LitII GS or can I get conc-opp HP cloak first? (I only have ingredients to make 1 item at the moment). Do I need to go and run for tempest runes until I get the +15% incite one?

These might seem basic questions but I've never played a tank build before. Thanks for the help.

[callforkills]

When hate tanking you will always first get some time to get aggro properly before people start beating and with 10, 20 and 25% hate tanking bonus you should easily be able to hate take unless you damage is super bad. For hate tanking just make sure you have DR breaker and quite good damage.. i don't know how much damage a FvS WF does, but
definitely you definitely have to do something around 70 per hit.

[wax_on_wax_off]

When hate tanking you will always first get some time to get aggro properly before people start beating and with 10, 20 and 25% hate tanking bonus you should easily be able to hate take unless you damage is super bad. For hate tanking just make sure you have DR breaker and quite good damage.. i don't know how much damage a FvS WF does, but
definitely you definitely have to do something around 70 per hit.

I think I'm closer to 50 per hit ...

2d6 greatsword
+2 enhancement
+1d6 pure good
+16 power attack
+16 strength modifier (23+ 6 divine power + 1 ship buff + 2 rage spell)
+3 divine favour
+2 ship buff
+3 weapon specialisation and enhancement
+1 prayer (often don't bother)
=53.5 average self buffed (+ charged gauntlets on vorpals, +6 seeker (bloodstone), I have improved critical: slashing of course)

Nobody knows how threat enhancements work (additively or multiplicatively).
I expect to add +2 damage from strength at level 20 (and +2 ship buff), +1 damage from weapon specialisation.
Only way that I can push my damage higher at the moment is with Bladesworn Transformation (+7 damage).
Otherwise, I'm after more gear. Vulkoor's Might set doesn't seem worthwhile until I can make it epic (unless I put +10% healing amp on my DT, then the incite along with the +2 damage becomes useful).
A better boss beater is a good option of course. A MinII GS would add 9 damage/hit or so (maybe a bit more from acid burst on normal against devils), I suppose a litII would add something similar depending on DR of bosses. On balance though, I'm thinking a conc-opp HP cloak would be a better investment.

Edit: Added bloodstone as a note

[wax_on_wax_off]

2d6 greatsword
+2 enhancement
+1d6 pure good
+16 power attack
+16 strength modifier (23+ 6 divine power + 1 ship buff + 2 rage spell)
+3 divine favour
+2 ship buff
+3 weapon specialisation and enhancement
+1 prayer (often don't bother)
=53.5 average self buffed (+ charged gauntlets on vorpals, +6 seeker (bloodstone), I have improved critical: slashing of course)

(50*15+56*8+3.5*19)/20 = 63.225 = ~65 (including charged gauntlets) = (with incite of 1.55 assuming worst case scenario of additive) = ~100 damage/hit

Against 50% fortification bosses the damage will drop but less than for other melee DPS (for instance fighters and barbarians with special abilities regarding their criticals).

How does this stack up? How do I compare this with attack speeds of Greataxe, TWF style and fists?

[Glenalth]

Nobody knows how threat enhancements work (additively or multiplicatively).

Actually, we do know that it is additive now...

Eladrin made some very informative posts about it in the Llama land forum not too long ago.


http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...0&postcount=23

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=30

[wax_on_wax_off]

Actually, we do know that it is additive now...

Eladrin made some very informative posts about it in the Llama land forum not too long ago.


http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...0&postcount=23

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=30

Oh yeah, I remember reading this posts but didn't recall that detail when I was reading this.
So. 100 damage per hit on a slow THF weapon, how does that stack up? (Using VoD as an example).
Off the top of my head, my tempest does ~50+ damage/hit with each weapon so not even sure I could hold aggro against her ... (Tempest 3, 100% offhand proc, 5% double strike).

Maybe what I need is Jorgundal's Collar, does anyone have one of those lying around? (Sarlona)

[Spookyaction]

Oh yeah, I remember reading this posts but didn't recall that detail when I was reading this.
So. 100 damage per hit on a slow THF weapon, how does that stack up? (Using VoD as an example).
Off the top of my head, my tempest does ~50+ damage/hit with each weapon so not even sure I could hold aggro against her ... (Tempest 3, 100% offhand proc, 5% double strike).

Maybe what I need is Jorgundal's Collar, does anyone have one of those lying around? (Sarlona)

As far as I know there is no longer 'slow' and fast weapons, they all have the same speed. Also in Vod the aggro is reset whenever he teleports. Andy why would Jorgundals collar help, are't you hasted ?

[wax_on_wax_off]

As far as I know there is no longer 'slow' and fast weapons, they all have the same speed. Also in Vod the aggro is reset whenever he teleports. Andy why would Jorgundals collar help, are't you hasted ?

This is the thread that lead me to believe that jorgundal's collar and greataxe vs greatsword would make a difference: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275144

Another point, is twitching or glancing blows better? (even though I have no THF feats)

(Would the twitching or glancing blows question change if I had THF or THF and ITHF?)

Edit: Who's this Andy guy? He sounds nice.

[Glenalth]

One thing that is nice when tanking in VoD is being the only person using the Ravager set. The DoT is just enough to get him to come right back to you without having to chase his butt down.