Stop this BB madness

[Solmage]

People also should realize that a greater bane weapon does equivalent damage to a DR beater on normal.

Greater Bane: 3D6+4 = 14.5 dmg on avg, -15 DR is about -0.5 per swing.

Metalline Pure Good: +3.5

Holy + Silver : +7

Holy + silver + pure good : +10.5



(And don't forget that these are multiplied by swinging speed boosts and glancing blows)

[Solmage]

What magical thing happens, once we make 16th+ Levels that somehow makes this an acceptable practice?

Because with or without your help I'll solo Gwylands or Korromar at level in about the same time it would take WITH incompetent "help". Or stated differently, the soul stones I'm leaving behind or occasionally dropping off on my regular way to the shrine do not negatively affect me.

With a bunch of incompetent noobs a shroud turns from a refreshing and fun 15ish minute run into a potentially 60 minute long grind fest, provided it even completes.

(As a side rule, just because I CAN solo the end boss in the shroud does not mean I will in a group of noobs, I am not about to reward incompetence with free larges)

As far as Chronoscope goes, I understand a lot of LFMs go like this: 17-20... to run a lvl 6 raid. So, yeah, I can see how they wouldn't be requiring DR weapons when doing that. But when they write an LFM Chronoscope, 5-7 you bet they would want only well geared players along.

[vVAnjilaVv]

You don't even want to know how many scales I've pulled on my Monk in his first 8 runs since TR. Let's just say it's a point of data that balances out your point of data.

Point is, random is random. Streaks of good and bad luck, alike, happen. But there's no reason to believe that LDS drop rates are any less than any other Large.

The only reason Scales are so valuable is that there is so much more demand for them in crafting recipes.

This probably doesn't make a difference but are these all completion runs.......or DD runs or a combination?


I never DD and always complete.......as I play many toons and I like to just get completions for tomes/cleansing stones.

[Solmage]

This probably doesn't make a difference but are these all completion runs.......or DD runs or a combination?


I never DD and always complete.......as I play many toons and I like to just get completions for tomes/cleansing stones.

I used to see it all the time with a friend, he pulled more scales than I did. I'd say he pulled about 5 per week, I pulled half that. However overall it's the same drop rate, I had overall a good average on all materials, he always was short large stones. (And yes, always complete, and always run more than 1 char to farm shroud)

[kernal42]

This probably doesn't make a difference but are these all completion runs.......or DD runs or a combination?


I never DD and always complete.......as I play many toons and I like to just get completions for tomes/cleansing stones.

I always complete, excepting the rare occasion that the group wipes on part 5. Timewise, completing is so much more efficient.

-Kernal

[dkyle]

This probably doesn't make a difference but are these all completion runs.......or DD runs or a combination?

I always complete. I stopped DDooring very quickly, even when I had only one character to run it with. It's just not a good use of time.

But, it doesn't make a difference. In Part 4 you have an ~8% chance: 50% of a Large times 1/6 chance of Scale, same as any other Large, ignoring the small chance for a Horn.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I must be really unlucky then because I do not pull many Scales.

I really wish they would even out the recipes more so u don't end up with 50 large bones and chains.

[Faent]

There's nothing to see here. The OP is obviously about as green as anyone could be. If they stick around long enough to run Shroud a couple hundred times, they'll eventually change their newbie tune.

[Ungood]

Because with or without your help I'll solo Gwylands or Korromar at level in about the same time it would take WITH incompetent "help".

With a bunch of incompetent noobs a shroud turns from a refreshing and fun 15ish minute run into a potentially 60 minute long grind fest, provided it even completes.

(As a side rule, just because I CAN solo the end boss in the shroud does not mean I will in a group of noobs, I am not about to reward incompetence with free larges)

Ok. help me out there, if you (or those comparable to you in ability and outfitting IE: Your Peers) can just go solo the end boss, wouldn't the fact that any of the "Lesser" players having BB or not, be a non-issue Just like Korromar or Gwylands? Because, if I have this right, you (and your peers) can simply solo the end boss, thus everyone else is really just there for yard trash and minor other issues. Which means you don't need BB's at all to effectively run this raid, if you are in it. What they really need are Portal Beaters, and ways to split mobs up on command.

Which just makes the aspect of the BB request even that much more intriguing to tell the truth.

Added: I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to have people link Portal Beaters as opposed to BB's?

As far as Chronoscope goes, I understand a lot of LFMs go like this: 17-20... to run a lvl 6 raid. So, yeah, I can see how they wouldn't be requiring DR weapons when doing that. But when they write an LFM Chronoscope, 5-7 you bet they would want only well geared players along.

Normally it is 6 - 20 for elite loot runs, FYI, but regardless, that is not an issue. As for your idea of "geared players", lets be be honest, there is only so well you can twink a level 7, which means, a vast amount of that raid, even with good gear, is still skill and teamwork.

[donfilibuster]

This is ORIEN !!!1!

[wolflordnexus]

Ok. help me out there, if you (or those comparable to you in ability and outfitting IE: Your Peers) can just go solo the end boss, wouldn't the fact that any of the "Lesser" players having BB or not, be a non-issue Just like Korromar or Gwylands? Because, if I have this right, you (and your peers) can simply solo the end boss, thus everyone else is really just there for yard trash and minor other issues. Which means you don't need BB's at all to effectively run this raid, if you are in it. What they really need are Portal Beaters, and ways to split mobs up on command.

Which just makes the aspect of the BB request even that much more intriguing to tell the truth.

Added: I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to have people link Portal Beaters as opposed to BB's?



Normally it is 6 - 20 for elite loot runs, FYI, but regardless, that is not an issue. As for your idea of "geared players", lets be be honest, there is only so well you can twink a level 7, which means, a vast amount of that raid, even with good gear, is still skill and teamwork.

What he's saying is there is absolutely no comparing Korromar or Gwylands with Shroud. In Korromar or Gwylands Soloing or with a party if you have 1 decently geared competent player you will succeed with barely any noticeable difference. In a shroud 1 person can not pull everyone's weight without a large cost in both time and resources.

[unscythe]

I think that it is nice to push for the new/little guy, but at some point those guys are just gonna accept your help and pike.

I like how the sig says "A chain is only as Strong as the weakest link", but not every member of the chan (community) will help that chain, and it is not everyones responsibility to help that person. It is however that players responsibility to help themselves, to learn, to ask, and to improve.

Anyways, fighting for the weakest link seems silly if the weakest link is truly useless.

Also, never compare raids to quests. Alot of raids, if not all of themhave been soloed in DDO, but when you group with 11 other people, it makes it just a bit harder to solo, compared to just having 5 other people unwilling to help.

[ssgcmwatson]

When I lead a pug shroud on Orien, I put up the "Melees link BBs please"... here's the jist of many a true conversation:

Noob: What's a BB?
Me: Boss-beater
Noob: Does a vorpal longsword count?


I have no problem taking one new person along on their first/second/third shroud run while they learn the ropes, but it is generally something that I reserve for guildies. IMHO that's a big part of what guilds are for - teaching the "next generation" of players. (Ship buffs are nice too, but most of us joined guilds long before there were airships).

If I don't ask for BBs, I'm concerned that I'll get a group of people who think that their vorpal longsword is the ticket to victory. Sorry, but my time is too valuable for that.

[kernal42]

I really wish they would even out the recipes more so u don't end up with 50 large bones and chains.

A better solution, because it would be effectively retroactive, would be a trading vendor. 3 of any ingred for one of your choice, or even one off of a random list (a la Draconic rune turn-in) would be awesome.

Cheers,
Kernal

[WestportStan]

This really is the argument that never ends. (This and looting rules.)
At somepoint we will have to agree to disagree.

If you don't care for the way someone is running their raids you should start your own.

[Ghaldar]

....

Oh, boss beaters. For the longest time I kept thinking the OP was talking blade barriers, esp for part1. I was confused.

Let alone.. what the heck do you need devil beaters for part 1 any way? Pull out the +1 vorpals and get the job done.

You want portal beaters. You also want good music. So really, you want PB&J.

Yea only reason I checked in was to see *** anyone would need BB for shroud. For those who are misusing the acronym BB= Blade Barrier and has for years.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...78#post2326178

So please stop your silly Boss Beating and call it Harry Beaters like the rest of us.

[Ungood]

What he's saying is there is absolutely no comparing Korromar or Gwylands with Shroud. In Korromar or Gwylands Soloing or with a party if you have 1 decently geared competent player you will succeed with barely any noticeable difference. In a shroud 1 person can not pull everyone's weight without a large cost in both time and resources.

What you are missing, is that I have also mentioned that it is also not done for TS, Chrono, or when I think about it, VON/PON or even Abbot put this up. (and None of these raids can be soloed -at all-)

But, linking BB's is this magical thing that happens at Shroud.

My question is simply "Why?"

Solmage offered no answer or insight into the practice, so maybe you would like to try your hand at clearing it up.

[kernal42]

So please stop your silly Boss Beating and call it Harry Beaters like the rest of us.

....because I don't want to get a SECOND set of weapons for just Horoth!


Kernal

[WestportStan]

Yea only reason I checked in was to see *** anyone would need BB for shroud. For those who are misusing the acronym BB= Blade Barrier and has for years.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...78#post2326178

So please stop your silly Boss Beating and call it Harry Beaters like the rest of us.

I'll do you one better (or worse depending on your point of view)
how about:
Shroud end boss DR bypassing melee weapons. or sebdbmw's

Lfm
Shroud: please link you sebdbmw's

(please note the poster of this thinks(i.e. me) it is REALLY funny and is chuckling to himself)

[kernal42]

What you are missing, is that I have also mentioned that it is also not done for TS, Chrono, or ..... (and None of these raids can be soloed -at all-)

What?

But, linking BB's is this magical thing that happens at Shroud.

My question is simply "Why?"

Solmage offered no answer or insight into the practice, so maybe you would like to try your hand at clearing it up.

See:

Orien PUGs fail Shrouds distressingly often; probably around 10% of PUGs end up wiping. This is largely because people don't know what they're doing, either when it comes to quest mechanics (splitting the lieutenants) or gearing their character (heavy fort/false life/+con etc).

While having Bossbeaters certainly helps bring the party toward completion, more than anything it says to the party leader that you have some idea of what is required of you and have put forth at least some effort in getting your toon appropriately geared.

Cheers,
Kernal