In need of some advice.

[Airgeadlam]

Greetings to you all.

I'm currently building my first wizard. I've checked some wizard builds, and a thought came to mind. I want to try a half-elf wizard, selecting the cleric dilettante, so i can do a bit of self-healing using wands and such. And yes, you're now wondering "if you want self-healing, why not go WF then?". Well, gotta say a couple of things about it. First of all, I want to be "cleric friendly" (Playing two clerics at this moment, and sometimes it's a pain to heal WF when comes necessary, mostly before you get the Heal spell). And, last, i don't want to be another "WF 32-point build" clon, I want to create something of my own.

Said this, I really need expert advice on which spells/feats should I take, or even prestige classes (Archmage.. is it worth it?). And I'll appreciate any help you can provide about it.

Thanks in advance for your help/time/patience!

[Dennis]

First off, let me say that I'm no expert when it comes to wizards as I'm in the process of playing my first one, but I have played the game for a reasonably long time. Hence, my comments may be of some value to you.

Your initial premise is not sound. That is, a decently played WF wizard will NOT require any cleric/fvs mana - the wizard is more than able to heal himself!

Thus far, in any groups that I've joined with my wizard, I've made a point of telling the healer to not pay any attention to my health bar. Through level 13, my wizard has NEVER died, not even once.

So, your choice of race should not be based on healing needs. That said, you will find many divergent opinions as to the various merits of WF vs. drow vs. human vs. other races, which, overall, simply come down to individual preference.

Generally speaking (and I did a fair amount of research before making my first wizard), the consensus seems to be WF for a variety of reasons that are too numerous to list. Thus far, I have no regrets in going down this path.

I would suggest that your first wizard SHOULD be a true neutral WF with starting INT at 18, CON at 18 and the remaining stat points in either STR (best) or CHA.

Mandatory feats in the early levels would be insightful reflexes (1/2 damage) and tuffness, plus whatever spell-related feats you see your character as needing (Archmage, Pale Master etc) later on as your character develops.

Yes, you'll have "just another" clone, but, you know, there probably IS a reason why you see this race/build so VERY often!

Later on, you can always experiment with other races in making a second wizard, but there will always likely be a warm place in your heart for your WF wizzie.

Hope that these comments help.

[bryanmeerkat]

Either being WF or going PM should mean that as long as you have a blue bar you should be able to look after yourself .
So you would only need to do the self heal with dill thing if you where going to be a fleshy AM .

[OverlordOfRats]

Since most of the advice you received was play a WF, I'll post this and hope it helps. I was thinking about this very same build and had been kicking some ideas around for a few days before you posted. Figured I could finish it and post it for you.

As far as spells go check out the wiki here for ones to take when leveling up. It is the list of spells that cannot be bought from vendors.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 182
Spell Points: 1901 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 6
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             11                    11
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         18                    28
Wisdom               13                    13
Charisma              8                     8

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 4 (Wizard)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 16 (Wizard)


Level 17 (Wizard)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell

Note: Empower needs to be taken at level 3 in order to spend enough APs so the enhancements don't get stuck. Also, evocation and enchantment can be switched around if you would like to do crowd control more. All level ups were put into INT. It is a 32pt build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 182
Spell Points: 1901 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 6
Will: 13

Level 1 (Wizard)


Level 2 (Wizard)


Level 3 (Wizard)


Level 4 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 5 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 6 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante I
Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage I
Enhancement: Evocation I - Magic Missle


Level 7 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 8 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II


Level 9 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Arcane Bolt
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage II


Level 10 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II


Level 11 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III


Level 12 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage III


Level 13 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Force I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Force II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I


Level 14 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III


Level 15 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante III


Level 16 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III


Level 17 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II


Level 18 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage IV


Level 19 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV


Level 20 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Master of Magic
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II

Note: I have veteran status purchased. That is why the enhancements start at level 4. If you do not, just move some of them to levels 1-3. After level 5, not spending enough APs to qualify for the enhancements was not a problem anymore. I wanted to lessen the spell costs and HAD to take Improved Empowering I in order to spend 14 APs before level 5. You could substitute something else that costs 2 APs if you do not want that.

As far as skills go, I maxed concentration, balance(don't like laying down on the job), spot(hate finding monsters by running into them), umd, diplomacy(it's a half-elf after all), bluff(see diplomacy), and took jump up to 7(add a +5 STR item and Jump spell = 40).

Hope this helps. Is this a good build? I don't know. I have 13 characters of different races and classes between level 4 and 14, soon to be 14 characters. It does sound like fun to play and that's why I made it. One thing I do know. It is not a WF

[Mrmorphling]

The ability to reliably self heal is pretty handy, even more for a first time wizard so, IMHO, if you go down the Archmage route a WF is advisable; if you choose Pale Master you get a substantial amount of self healing in the form of negative energy so i would recommend a Human for the additional Feat

[Jaid314]

The ability to reliably self heal is pretty handy, even more for a first time wizard so, IMHO, if you go down the Archmage route a WF is advisable; if you choose Pale Master you get a substantial amount of self healing in the form of negative energy so i would recommend a Human for the additional Feat

cleric dilettante offers the use of harm scrolls (useful for removing ability damage etc in form) and heal scrolls quite reliably though, which means you have some options both in and out of form for self-healing.

i agree that human is good, but i don't necessarily agree that it's the best option for someone's first life. if this is a TR with all the UMD gear to be able to (semi)-reliably use heal scrolls by level 15 anyways, then i'll agree that human is probably the somewhat stronger option.

[barlion]

ok i have a lvl 20 wizard been playing him for a year now he is a elf and i never use a clerics mana. on a wizard id go 18 wiz/2 monk or rogue and id be a pm if your not wf and a archmage if you are. also as a pm wizard i never use negative energy burst i just keep a death aura on and im fine.

[Xalerwons]

[QUOTE=Airgeadlam;3538869]Greetings to you all.

I'm currently building my first wizard. I've checked some wizard builds, and a thought came to mind. I want to try a half-elf wizard, selecting the cleric dilettante, so i can do a bit of self-healing using wands and such. And yes, you're now wondering "if you want self-healing, why not go WF then?". Well, gotta say a couple of things about it. First of all, I want to be "cleric friendly"

Telling your cleric that you won't need heals, unless you do something profoundly stupid, saves them more mana than being a fleshie and "healer friendly".

(Playing two clerics at this moment, and sometimes it's a pain to heal WF when comes necessary, mostly before you get the Heal spell). And, last, i don't want to be another "WF 32-point build" clon, I want to create something of my own.

Every single wizard is a clone. You are not a unique snowflake. It's been done.

Even if you've never seen another wizard before, eventually your enhancements, feats, and spell choices will be extraordinarily close to every other AM or PM wizard.

Said this, I really need expert advice on which spells/feats should I take, or even prestige classes (Archmage.. is it worth it?). And I'll appreciate any help you can provide about it.

Thanks in advance for your help/time/patience!

Archmage is worth it. Archmage V is arguably not worth it, depending on your enhancement choices, build, and past lives.

[hermespan]

And yes, you're now wondering "if you want self-healing, why not go WF then?". Well, gotta say a couple of things about it. First of all, I want to be "cleric friendly" (Playing two clerics at this moment, and sometimes it's a pain to heal WF when comes necessary, mostly before you get the Heal spell). And, last, i don't want to be another "WF 32-point build" clon, I want to create something of my own.

You don't need anyone to heal you as a warforged wizard except in extreme emergencies which are also extremely rare. if you are _that_ concerned about it, take healer's friend I and II (which obviously the WF you've played with did not). I usually tell clerics not to bother unless I'm at 5% in a raid and getting knocked down. WF wizard is a really good class/race combination. WF wizard Just Works(tm). It has nothing to do with popularity or trying to be a clone like everyone else.

If you want to go fleshie wizard do pale master and go elf or human. Elven arcanum gets you more SP and human gives you extra feat (improved mental toughness or enlarge?). Drow gets you 20 starting int if you max so has the highest potential DC, they also end up with -20 HP over most of the other races and -40 vs. warforged so at least 1 toughness feat is a must (not that it isn't on the other races anyway) Any of these are better than half elf.

The clear overall winner is WF though with the immunities etc... they're virtually indestructible compared to a fleshie. you don't get held, immune to fear based paralysis (mummy despair etc), etc etc etc. To be fair a fleshie can get this with gear and raid gear (Delver's boots, Lion headed belt buckle, Proof against Poison etc). I kinda like being able to wear 30% striding boots tho and still be immune to hold.

There's nothing that makes power more effective than speed to target, or avoidance if you are in trouble.

Add to that you can go Archmage, and STILL self heal as a WF. It's real hard to see what other races offer over warforged. That's because the answer is nothing. Pale master is a weak PrE. you lose DC enhancements and spell points that archmage gets.

As far as being unique, there's nothing new under the sun. Whatever you do it's been done before. If it hasn't there's usually a very good reason.

[William_the_Bat]

I'm actually having a complete blast with my half-elf archmage. Wands and scrolls are really all the self-healing I need as I don't get hurt much.. hint: stay quick on your feet.

About the build posted above, I hate to say this, but some very much needed feats are all over the place as far as when you get them. As someone who absolutely loves leveling a character, feat order is important to me to feel powerful every step of the way.

so first, by level 6 you really need maximize, empower, spell focus evocation, and mental toughness, i.e. you want to pew pew the biggest, baddest magic missiles 1 spell point ever got you. Since the cool down sometimes takes a while, you also want spell focus enchantment so you can take 1 SP hypnotize. You can pretty effectively lock something down by smacking it then re-hypnotizing it, repeat until dead.

Also force spec is pretty sweet for this build. Yeah, my firewalls suffer a little, but honestly, firewall rocks plenty even without the help. Meanwhile critical hits on my force spells are getting downright tasty, and happening often enough to be worth while.

Now obviously if you are thinking different archmage concentrations, you build a bit different, but you get the idea. You pick up heighten at 9 or 10, you really don't want to wait for 20 on that one.

And yes, this means you don't get toughness for a while. Did I mention I don't get hurt much? Use that hypno to your advantage. Spam it mercilessly and without relent. Make em dance and chain missile and arcane bolt and yes, pew pew magic missile them to death. Crowd control really is nice, especially if you are quick on your feet. (hint #2, sometimes expeditious is better than haste, as it lasts a long, long time)

[Entelech]

Reliable self-healing, especially without absolutely requiring consumables, is indeed a very good thing. But there's more than one way to skin a cat.

The Cleric dilettante feat you were looking at will allow you to be self reliant as long as you stock up on wands. For a first character, this can get expensive. Longer-term players will not feel the gold cost so acutely.

Warforged with repair spells also does the job. As does Pale Master, provided you have another strategy to get to level 12 (like Cleric Dilettante or Warforged).

Heck, if you buy potions in bulk, ANYBODY can be self-reliant.

Play a Warforged because you WANT to play a Warforged, not because someone else tells you you need to. If you want a character who's a little less art deco, there are plenty of ways to make it work if you plan ahead.

[Jaid314]

clearing up a few misconceptions:

1) drow has the highest DC, but shares that DC with humans and half-elves at this point. if some new piece of gear that offers 1 more point of int comes out, drow will be in the lead, but otherwise, human and half-elf can both get the same DC. drow *can* get you that higher DC 1 piece of gear earlier, however (and certainly, +3 tomes are a lot more common than +4, not that either are all that easy to find).

2) pale master typically does not actually cost you a lower DC. in the rare event that you would have a lower DC anyways (which only happens when you either haven't bothered to earn yugo pots or an archmage is drinking them and running less than 100% fort) is only by one point.

3) lower spell points are not likely to be a problem. first of all, pale master has much cheaper self-healing than a warforged non-PM. also cheaper damage-dealing to anything living, as a general rule. also, the pale master can benefit from yugoloth potions, which slowly regenerate spell points over time. combined with the fact that the AM will likely be spending around 100-150 SP on abilities usually, the PM is not that far behind. there's also the small but non-zero possibility of the pale master getting a spellsong vigor... but i'll readily admit spellsingers aren't *that* common.

4) WF immunities are great and all, but most of them can be dealt with using spells you're going to want anyways. about the only immunity you can't duplicate iirc is flesh to stone (since WF has no flesh). and in fact, most of those abilities are duplicated by a single, non-dispellable buff: lich/wraith form. (actually, wraith form probably *is* immune to flesh to stone, come to think of it). as such, once you hit level 12, it's pretty much a wash.


and in general, if you want to be an AM evocation spec, i would stick with what william suggested.