Replace "Kill Count" with "Damage Count"

[Irongutz2000]

/not signed

Kill count is useless an so would a new addtion to it, i would rather see them focus onn more content/fixing other bugs in the game, than working onn this.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Instead, how about a Personal Scorecard only visible to you? It could contain a wide variety of statistics, from damage done, healing done, SP spent, health lost, hits avoided, damage reduced, potions quaffed, item damage incurred, distance ran, saves made/failed, enemy saves made/failed, etc.

This is a good idea, but a much better one would be if they just allowed logging the combat log to a file that someone could write a parser for, that way it's on us, as a community to develope our own tools.

[Urvine]

What is a barb doing to get kill count if they're not using DPS? Casters with Wall of Fire in the lower level quests aren't doing DPS?

barbarians (2hf) hit for large sums of single blow damage so they're more likely to get a killing blow. casters tend to kill things before anyone else gets to them as well as dealing area of effect damage, increasing their killing blows. This in no way displays thier superior dps, simply their higher probability of a killing blow.

[bobbryan2]

I updated the post with a couple more links.
Unfortunately it's the best that we can have. There have been several requests for exportable data but they all fell in deaf ears.

It's not the best we could have...

We could have both a DPS meter and a DPS count. Simply filtering combat is a terrible solution.

I mean, how fun would it be to have a small number, much like your FPS rate that just showed your DPS spiking and falling.

[Lord_WC]

barbarians (2hf) hit for large sums of single blow damage so they're more likely to get a killing blow. casters tend to kill things before anyone else gets to them as well as dealing area of effect damage, increasing their killing blows. This in no way displays thier superior dps, simply their higher probability of a killing blow.

In the long run because of the varying hp of mobs and your damage (to a lesser extent) only dps is a factor in landing the killing blow (if we are not talking about kill stealing). This is not a divison problem.

[Aussir]

It's not the best we could have...

We could have both a DPS meter and a DPS count. Simply filtering combat is a terrible solution.

I mean, how fun would it be to have a small number, much like your FPS rate that just showed your DPS spiking and falling.

It's the best we can have since we have no other tools available. Of course that having data to export or even what you suggested would be better.

[bobbryan2]

It's the best we can have since we have no other tools available. Of course that having data to export or even what you suggested would be better.

So why /not sign it?

It's information, and more information is better. Any and everything will be a tool of segregation for some people. But don't design and code to the lowest common denominator.

If our tools are lacking, let's get better tools, not pooh pooh them.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Simply filtering combat is a terrible solution.

I don't agree, I think we can have FAR more intricate, detailed and graphical information parsing the file ourselves than relying on programmers that should be working on content.

[bobbryan2]

In the long run because of the varying hp of mobs and your damage (to a lesser extent) only dps is a factor in landing the killing blow (if we are not talking about kill stealing). This is not a divison problem.

And very few forms of "kill stealing" are actually effective. If someone is consistently kill stealing from you... odds are he's doing consistently more dps.

[bobbryan2]

I don't agree, I think we can have FAR more intricate, detailed and graphical information parsing the file ourselves than relying on programmers that should be working on content.

Yeah... if "time" didn't matter in these equations.

[Shade]

/not signed.

Removing game features is a poor suggestion. No matter what the feature.

I would sign simply adding damage count to the list without removing kill count.

But even better yet and far easier to implement would be what should of come standard with ddo as most mmos already have it

/export combatlog.txt

command. Simply will export the combat log (or any other log) to a file in realtime.

The player community could then write programs to parse the data and extrapolate DPS from it. People curious enough about true dps delt could paste their results into party chat at the end of the battle.

Ideally the log could also include combat messages from other players, but not required.

[FlyingTurtle]

I ran two Tempest Spines last weekend on my ranger.

One wiped in the first room. My character died too pretty quickly.

The other one went smooth as silk and not only nobody died, but nobody even dropped below 80% HP that I could see. Every mob died within 2-3s, CC, DPS, buffs and healing were all immaculate.

The kill count in the second team was something like 60+ (some guy who got told off for zerging ahead and had to tone it down a bit) 40+ (me) less than 10 each for everybody else. And I know I was one of the least useful members in the group, "hit it until it stops moving" is an easy role that anyone can do when the team is awesome like that.

Kill count means nothing. It does not reflect player skill, tactics or coordination, which is 99% of your contribution to the group.

[Aussir]

So why /not sign it?

It's information, and more information is better. Any and everything will be a tool of segregation for some people. But don't design and code to the lowest common denominator.

If our tools are lacking, let's get better tools, not pooh pooh them.

I already stated why I don't sign to everyone seeing each other's DPS (which is what is suggested) count in a previous post. One word: griefing.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Yeah... if "time" didn't matter in these equations.

Realtime parsing? We have the technology!

[bobbryan2]

I already stated why I don't sign to everyone seeing each other's DPS count in a previous post. One word: griefing.

You could probably use griefing as a reason to not sign EVERY single suggestion, request, or gui enhancement ever conceived. It's a poor reason.

I've been playing DDO for years and years now... I have never once been griefed because of kill count. I'm pretty sure it's myth and conjecture... or people noticed others' crappy play and used it as the easiest quantifiable referendum on their play.

[bobbryan2]

Realtime parsing? We have the technology!

DDO doesn't even have real-time combat these days.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

It's a small thing, but i really feel that the Kill Count is sorta useless except for barbs or casters (in lower level quests) to wave their epeens around.

I feel that changing it to a Damage Count would not only help determine who is actually helping the party the most (kinda useless) but also help people determine if their build is working/ if they are playing well.

I also think that this would be a relatively easy coding change, as there is already a combat log telling me everything that is happening, and a change to program that just adds that damage up doesnt seem too complex. I may be wrong though. (if this is a complex coding change, then it isnt really worth it)

Nope. Replace with nothing. Just remove it.

/not signed.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

DDO doesn't even have real-time combat these days.

I'm not talking about DDO doing it... all they would have to do is allow logging of the combat information to a file. Then we can build our own program to do it... in real time... on a second screen, with all the kill, DPS, healing, HP information you want all chittering by as flashy as you want it to be. That way you know your own stuff like the back of your hand and can tweek whatever you want, but others remain a mystery, protecting those that are sub optmal from being harrassed...

[samthedagger]

/not signed

The kill count is actually a useful tool. It is not THE tool to determine who is contributing, but it can be helpful if taken in context. Say there are two tanks and you are one of them. The quest has about 100 mobs and together you and the other tank score 90% of the kills. You and the other tank are both the same level, same class, and smacking around stuff an equal amount of the time. But the other tank is outkilling you 60 to 30. The other tank might have some helpful tips for you (if you care to ask). Or maybe its just luck. But if you notice this kind of thing happening to you all the time, maybe you take a hint and look at your strategy/tactics. But it is NOT justification to exclude people from your groups or proof that one person is a better player than another.

The fact that people use it in immature ways is not a fault of the system. People misuse MyDDO, but that doesn't mean MyDDO doesn't serve a useful function.

And as other people have already said, the combat log can give you damage feedback if you want it.

[bobbryan2]

I'm not talking about DDO doing it... all they would have to do is allow logging of the combat information to a file. Then we can build our own program to do it... in real time... on a second screen, with all the kill, DPS, healing, HP information you want all chittering by as flashy as you want it to be. That way you know your own stuff like the back of your hand and can tweek whatever you want, but others remain a mystery, protecting those that are sub optmal from being harrassed...

Ok, I'll elaborate. How many times have you been in a raid and you kill them raid boss. Then for a full 15 seconds, damage numbers keep flying above your head.

Now, even if you're exporting to a file in realtime... all DPS numbers would be hopelessly off to the point of irrelevancy.

I'm not saying real-time parsing shouldn't happen. It would still be neat in a few situations... and there would probably come some really neat add-ons from the players side. But it wouldn't be sufficient to something a dev could do on their end.