Sleep - overpowered?

[coolpenguin410]

I was reading the "Worst of the worst" spells list and got to think, what would happen if the HD limits on Sleep and Deep Slumber were removed?

I remember a time, way back when, when all mobs' spells were extended our party got hit with a Deep Slumber. We had to wait 10 minutes, on more than one occasion, for a party member could wake up and we could advance. This was back when the level cap was 12 or so. The group was under level for the quest and we needed everyone for it.

That said, if the duration was significantly reduced like the way Crushing Despair was (which I hate, by the way, I love using that spell on my enchanter), then the spell would be tolerable as anti-player CC.

From the mob CC side, could it be too powerful when used in conjunction with other CC spells.

For example: A group of mobs at a distance. Caster turns on Enlarge. Target group with Mass Hold Monster. Whatever saves gets hit with Deep Slumber. Any remaining stragglers get hit, alternating, with Hold Monster and Sleep. Thus a large group is quickly neutralized. A well coordinated party would target the held mobs first and then the sleeping ones as the sleepers will wake up once hit.

Is this too much? Or is the CC that DDO has been lacking?

[RTN]

Why should you get two spells in combination like that? It's too much of an easy button. Use Web and Hypnosis at the lower levels, They both work well.

[FlyingTurtle]

I was reading the "Worst of the worst" spells list and got to think, what would happen if the HD limits on Sleep and Deep Slumber were removed?

Then you'd get something very much like Hypnotize, except with the target lying on the ground.

[Vellrad]

You know the difference between sleep and hypnotize?
Its simple: victim of sleep gets 1 automatic critical hit when waking up, and target of hypnotize get 1 normal hit when waking up (assuming that meeles woke 'em up).
So its obvious (IMO) that sleep needs to be balanced somehow against hypno.
IMO its still great as poor man's instakill for low lvl wizards .

[FlyingTurtle]

You know the difference between sleep and hypnotize?
Its simple: victim of sleep gets 1 automatic critical hit when waking up, and target of hypnotize get 1 normal hit when waking up (assuming that meeles woke 'em up).
So its obvious (IMO) that sleep needs to be balanced somehow against hypno.
IMO its still great as poor man's instakill for low lvl wizards .

Wow I did not know that. +1 and thanks!

[samthedagger]

Why should you get two spells in combination like that? It's too much of an easy button. Use Web and Hypnosis at ALL levels, They both work well.

Fixed that for ya.

[coolpenguin410]

Why should you get two spells in combination like that? It's too much of an easy button. Use Web and Hypnosis at the lower levels, They both work well.

Note, I'm not asking for anything really. I'm just asking hypothetically. At the moment, the spells are pretty much worthless even at level. What's the harm in them really? The biggest problem would be that they are both enchantment spells so there is a lot of synergy with being an archmage enchanter which is already one of the best CC options there are. It wouldn't be any easier than using the two spells you suggested.

As it is, a lot of mobs are immune or resistant to enchantments at end game so these spells would not be adding much to that part of the game.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Sleep has some stealth uses. But I think they nerfed it to the point that its uses are few. And may not be worth it.


I believe you can cast it on a monster who has not seen you yet. And (if it works) can then walk by them, and I think that when they wake up they will not agro on you.
But the key is that they need to have not seen you before you cast it on them.

And honestly, I am not sure this still works. It may actually cause agro on them now.
But it still has a long duration I think. So it may stlil be useful to keep them from spreading an alarm and moving away before they wake up. (actually I think the nerfed the duration too.....really bugs me that they have actually nerfed quite a lot of things that no one ever used. )

Been awhile since I tried it.

But worst part is the low HD immune thing. Very few quests have monsters that this is useful in.