Cap AC by level

[bryanmeerkat]

lv1 20
lv2 22
lv3 24
lv4 26
lv5 28
lv6 30
lv7 32
lv8 34
lv9 36
lv10 38
lv11 40
lv12 41
lv13 42
lv14 43
lv15 44
lv16 45
lv17 46
lv18 47
lv19 48
lv20 50
lv20 entering epic quest 70

Then set trash in level 1 quests to have a +5 to +10 to hit , bosses +10 to +15 ,
build this up through the levels so that generally at "capped ac" trash has between a 50-75% to miss and bosses have between 25-50% to miss.

Why ?

Well with this system it would mean an achievable ac would be possible without making people able to completley out run the AC curve to make them 95% immune to ac .

This would then make having some devotion to ac desirable , without having to put the kitchen sink in to make it feasable

[callforkills]

Many dps characters are able to reach 50 AC easily, so you would have to nerf ac. You'd also have to nerf feats like uncanny dodge and combat expertice, else 50 ac would be to easily accessable, /not signed.

* EDIT: Clerics are going to pike.. extra work for devs for just making the game worse cause you dont have much possibility to stand out as a tank compared to a tank with 100 ac and 70 intimi.

[Memnir]

Ah... no.

[Clay]

I have an idea...

How about we tie AC to the character's stats, gear and buffs... and then add up all the plusses and subtract all the minuses and see what we get?

then, if they have a good ac they get hit less and if the ac is bad then they get hit more?

And the Dev's could possible scale the to-hit of the mobs so that those that sacrifice some DPS to have a high ac can contribute meaningfully by taking less damage.

Nah... that would make too much sense.

just roll a BBN.

[bryanmeerkat]

then, if they have a good ac they get hit less and if the ac is bad then they get hit more?

Because thats not how the system works at the moment einstein .

At the moment it works like this .

You put all your gear stats and build concept into AC , you dont get hit by anything until epic .
You put most of your gear ,stats build anc concept into AC , : you get hit by everything
You put none of your gear , stats , build and concept into aC , : you get hit by everything .

[Hordo]

I have an idea...

How about we tie AC to the character's stats, gear and buffs... and then add up all the plusses and subtract all the minuses and see what we get?

then, if they have a good ac they get hit less and if the ac is bad then they get hit more?

And the Dev's could possible scale the to-hit of the mobs so that those that sacrifice some DPS to have a high ac can contribute meaningfully by taking less damage.

Nah... that would make too much sense.

just roll a BBN.

HOLY MOLY! What an epiphany!

Do you think such an even might possibly stop folks from posting inane suggestions to revise such an AC system?



+1 for sarcasm!

[bryanmeerkat]

Many dps characters are able to reach 50 AC easily, so you would have to nerf ac. You'd also have to nerf feats like uncanny dodge and combat expertice, else 50 ac would be to easily accessable, /not signed.

You have epicly missed the point .The point is that you should be able to have a workable AC as a fighter without having to put your entire build concept into it and without having to make your dps into the equivelent of hitting people with an inflatable banana .

[Vellrad]

You have epicly missed the point .The point is that you should be able to have a workable AC as a fighter without having to put your entire build concept into it and without having to make your dps into the equivelent of hitting people with an inflatable banana .

But even weakly geared wizards can get something like 50AC now.
50 is just to easy to be hit now to be cap. This was his point.

[bryanmeerkat]

But even weakly geared wizards can get something like 50AC now.
50 is just to easy to be hit now to be cap. This was his point.

Can you give me a break down on that ?

[Vellrad]

Can you give me a break down on that ?

10 base
+8 armor
+6 dex
+6 shield
+5 natural
+5 deflection
+5 dodge (mabar/haste/ritual on shield/ritual on armor)
+X blocking (I don't remember how many AC u get while blocking with Skyvault shield)
Its 45+X, +more if you have paladin in team (aura), +5 more if you get epic bracers with blue slot (but it ain't so easy anymore)

[zealous]

Well with this system it would mean an achievable ac would be possible without making people able to completley out run the AC curve to make them 95% immune to ac .

We kind of already have this, glancing blows and all.

Always get hit for a certain amount with a difficulty dependent frequency. If it's desireable to increase the damage taken this can be done by scaling the damage of glancing blows.

The problem is not really about not getting damaged. It's more about:
A. A change in AC having an impact in ~5% of it's span making it difficult(impossible) to balance to have a broad impact.
Bi. Doesn't protect against massive damage spikes
Bii. Damage other than massive damage spikes isn't much of a threat due to potency of healing
C. There is rarely much of a risk of running out of mana
D. Mana pots

A is pretty much self explanatory. Could be adjusted by doing e.g. as for epics, expanding the range. It's a computer game so pretty much any kind of probability distribution is doable. If they moved mob attacks back to the end of the animation they could even make it so that certain animations have a high chance of landing to create incentive for active play.

B. While you get hit less often with a high AC you can still get hit for as much when you get hit. Since healing is so potent, can fully heal a char at moments notice, damage other than massive spikes are very unlikely to kill you.

C. AC doesn't really protect you from dying, high hp and a competent healer handles that just as well. What it does do is to potentially reduce the need for healing. However, for low levels it's quite easy to either get a worthwhile AC and for latter levels healing is generally quite mana efficient. If you and your party know what you are doing running out of mana is rarer than skipping shrines.

D. You never run out of mana unless you choose to. This reduces the use of AC to potentially reducing the amount of rl/in game resources needed for mana pots.


Making it easier to reach viable ac would be possible by lowering mobs tohit and increasing glancing blow damage. Alternatively you could just scratch ac altogether and lower mob damage since it likely would be functionally the same.

Other alternatives that would make AC have more importance would be to give AC based damage reduction and optionally remove the tohit roll. "But that's not DnD...10 pages...". Agreed.

Or...you could increase frequency of mob attacks...and increase lag
Or...you could increase cooldown on healing spells and/or make them share cooldown...and make the sky fall down on our heads.

[MrWizard]

how about grazing hits having to have an ac roll on us....that would make it better in my book.
oh, something needs a 20 to hit me, but can tear me up anyway due to the grazing hits..
bummer. AC does not matter where grazing hits are concerned..

[noinfo]

how about grazing hits having to have an ac roll on us....that would make it better in my book.
oh, something needs a 20 to hit me, but can tear me up anyway due to the grazing hits..
bummer. AC does not matter where grazing hits are concerned..

Or better still, no grazing hits...

[moorewr]

Perhaps the OP would be so kind as to tell us what rules in the source game support the idea of an arbitrary AC cap?

Also, /not signed.

[grodon9999]

AC works fine except for a few small things (well, epic is a large thing but that's getting rebooted . . .).

[Dendrix]

Perhaps the OP would be so kind as to tell us what rules in the source game support the idea of an arbitrary AC cap?

Also, /not signed.

Perhaps you could kindly tell me what rules in the source game supports the idea that my 1st level character cannot wear +3 armour?

DDO has power increasing by level.

[Dartwick]

This suggestion doesnt fix any of the problems.

Its would simply result in most players having capped AC in everything under epic.

[bryanmeerkat]

Ok for all the naysayers , what AC does your capped toon currently have ?

Class and AC please , wearing your standard gear .

How many of your level 20 toons have anything like 50 on your standard gear ?

Mines 38 , but thats on a fairly high dex/wis build clonk .

[cedad]

The only problem with AC, is that the devs have to accept that there is a fringe of characters that may reach an AC high enough to get hit only 5 % of the time and that even with a few AC debufs.

AC does cap at the moment. The cap is 20 + MAX Monster to hit bonus with buffs + max AC debuff possible.
Everything above that can be reached but will not provide any bonus.

Setting a max AC by level in stone (as in player side) is not a good idea.
The max AC is just what the devs choose to give their monsters as to hit bonus.
Therefore it already exist.
The same way Min AC exist, it's 1 + MIN monster to hit - max tohit monster debuff.
The only problem is that the min AC is somewhat too high at the moment to matter for some toons and AC 5 is the same as AC 35 on a capped toon. It is mostly due to the fact that secondary attacks add bonuses to the 1rst attack instead of adding maluses.
That problem might be revised by either dropping the bonuses on the attack by the bonus given to attack #3 or by adding that same amount to the AC. That would drop the added AC, you need for significant AC (ie AC that bring 5 % chance of not being by point of AC).

BTW my Capped toon is a Monk with significant AC of 55 (it's significant because when I get AC buffs I get hit less, and when I get debuffs (or change robe) I get hit more).