The Definitive Guide to Barbarians

[Thuriaz]

Aye make sure you put in there something about not zerg running WITHOUT a cleric, I rand with a guy on irestone at level 4 who I'm sure read your guide recently and was assuming my blue bar as a ranger of equal level was his red bar.

Seriously though, good guide, funny and I hope those who are reading it can take the humor that is there where it is as intended.

[baronlager]

Great guide. I've been running your THF Dwarf build for a little while now and have him up to level 15 already. He is a little monster and a whole lot of fun to play.

[Khellendros13]

Problem being as the barbarian you really should be holding agro the bulk of the quest... So... No sneak attack.

I've said this before...if 6 melee are wearing Tharnes, or some sort of item that gives SA dmg (Epic Bracers of the Hunter are nice for some builds) 5 out of 6 will be getting an extra 8dmg per swing, or 4dmg in the case of Devil bosses.

Why wouldn't you wear Tharnes when beating the back of Sulu or Horath? Best to put a tanking GS item in the goggle slot and swap with Tharnes. Of course some will have a more complex setup.

[grodon9999]

Problem being as the barbarian you really should be holding agro the bulk of the quest... So... No sneak attack.

What if there's more than one "barb" in a group?

[Shade]

What if there's more than one "barb" in a group?

Outrun him and get the agro! He probably didn't read me guide so he won't have sprint boost anyways, should be easy

[grodon9999]

Outrun him and get the agro! He probably didn't read me guide so he won't have sprint boost anyways, should be easy

Please, like there's a chance in hell that every barb out there hasn't memorized this?

[Cam_Neely]

Good to see you back shade! I used your Dwarf build when I first started DDO and loved it. Hes now 29/2 Barb/Fighter and still loving every min of it.

I have yet to drop the chunk of change to get a nice Vorpal weapon (+PG or something of the sort, probably a Greataxe). Currently I just keep my MinII and use that to keep agro, while letting someone who's biceps do not resemble hams try to get the lucky strike.

Thoughts? Despite having a TR and another guy close to Cap, I dont have much extra plat, is a good Vorpal something that I should splurge on?

[Shade]

Good to see you back shade! I used your Dwarf build when I first started DDO and loved it. Hes now 29/2 Barb/Fighter and still loving every min of it.

I have yet to drop the chunk of change to get a nice Vorpal weapon (+PG or something of the sort, probably a Greataxe). Currently I just keep my MinII and use that to keep agro, while letting someone who's biceps do not resemble hams try to get the lucky strike.

Thoughts? Despite having a TR and another guy close to Cap, I dont have much extra plat, is a good Vorpal something that I should splurge on?

Nah not really. Vorpals are extremely rarely useful to a barb. Only in non-epics and only when a monster takes more then 20 swings on average to kill - which should be rare.

Pretty much only place I might use one is elite VoD/Hound trash, which takes around ~25 swings to take down, and even then sometimes I'll just munch titan cookies and nail them with stunning blow for a sub 10 hit kill. (they have pretty serious fort saves so there tough to stun without very very maxxed str/dc)

So really just buy a cheap vorpal, don't spend too much of your hard earned coin. Even a +1 greataxe will do the trick and should only be base price (7200pp) or free if you can find someone who just picked one up about to vendor it.

PS: If you followed my guide you should not be able to use a pure good weapon. Good alignment is not recommended.

If you are curious tho - best possible vorpal:
+5 Flametouched Iron Vorpal Greataxe of Enfeebling (RR: Your race) Think that would be a min lvl20 and thus only possible from Elite ToD, or ToD end reward any difficulty.

The flametouched iron gets thru devil DR, and the enfeebling sets even the toughest devils into permanent auto crit status after a few swings, after a stunning blow. So every after some really bad rolls and no 20s for quite a while, that devils screwed.

Personally I only have a +3 version of the above, was given to me by a good friend.

[Cam_Neely]

PS: If you followed my guide you should not be able to use a pure good weapon. Good alignment is not recommended.

doh! caught me. Was good in my first life, True Nurtual this life... Did that same thing earlier when I ran into Delera with my first life PG great club... Lucky I figured that out before the second part

Thanks for the info, ill keep my eyes open for a decent cheap one as I level up, but wont bump it up on my 'wants' list.

[kernal42]

Nah not really. Vorpals are extremely rarely useful to a barb. Only in non-epics and only when a monster takes more then 20 swings on average to kill - which should be rare.

The magic number depends on your vorpal dps relative to dps-weapon dps, and is lower than 20. If my memory serves, with a vorpal weapon doing half the damage of your dps weapon and your dps weapon takes 16 or more hits to kill, you should be using the vorpal. The magic number of 20 only comes around if your vorpal weapon does no damage at all.

In any case, it's certainly true that high-damage THF builds get much less out of vorpals than most other builds. I certainly would not put much priority on getting vorps on a THF barbarian.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Seere]

This may be the single (well,ok, it took him two posts) GREATEST post I have ever read.

Don't edit out the smarmy tongue-in-cheek buddy.


Rule One In Public Speaking: Never Talk Down To Your Audience!


Let 'er ride as is. I'ma read that again!!!

[Gratch]

I'd +1 the Op if he would let me.

This is the funniest post I've read in a long time. Kargon couldn't have done it more straight faced. Ty for the grins.

[eonfreon]

When I read the Op for some reason this comic comes to mind:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0132.html

[Thrudh]

Good old Shade...

Maybe this whole thing was written tongue-in-cheek... but knowing Shade, he may very well believe everything he wrote.

Trouble is, people think Shade knows what he's talking about, and all new players reading this will be likely be worse team-players afterwards...

Especially at the low to middle levels...

There many good things in this guide, and some absolute terrible things as well...

Warning to all readers... Anytime Shade states an absolute (i.e. AC NEVER matters, Barbarians can NEVER intimi-tank, etc.), he's wrong.

I especially like the part where he tells people to scout with the barbarian running through traps, because half-damage on a high hp barbarian is much better than zero damage on an evasion character (and heaven forbid one EVER wait for a trap to be disabled)...

Shade knows barbarians, and he knows how to play them as a vet, but he doesn't know how to educate new players.... New players don't have tons of gear or consumables, new players don't know the quests, new players will die playing like Shade says to play.

In my opinion, one of the best enhancements for a new barbarian player is the Damage Reduction Boost... Jump into a crowd, hit that baby, and suddenly get 9 DR in a level 7 quest, and you're golden...

Shade would rather hit Sprint Boost, and twitch...

Shade's advice works for Shade, not so much for new players...

(That said, there's good stuff in this guide, but you have to already know the game and barbarians to pick it out)

[Wraith_Sarevok]

Good old Shade...

*GASP*

How dare you point out fallacies in the messiah!?

This man should be drawn and quartered for his heresy against our lord!



But seriously, I have to dissagree with you. Shade DOES give good advice on which weapons and gear to carry through low and mid-level quests. His tactics on running through traps teach you the mechanics of how each type of trap works and the best way to get around them without waiting for a rogue. His twitching teaches you to control your movements and minimize damage taken during combat by avoiding the enemy.

He doesn't ask players to carry tons of gear and expensive consumables. In fact, he states that the build works well without powerful gear even though it benefits greatly from it. I'll admit that he doesn't always keep his guides updated and some of his recommended gear is now obsolete, but the truth is that his gear is not particularly difficult to get, at least not until you start hitting Tower of Despair and epics. Most of it still holds true and works well to this day.

I think it goes without saying that anyone with the intelligence to read this also has a mind of their own. They can experience things for themselves while following the guide and come up with their own tactics, modified or not, to conduct melee combat. Shade's not telling everyone to be exactly like him (although that would be awesome!), he's telling them how to play their class to the best of its ability.

Comming from myself: A newbie who had no idea how the game works and who followed his Warforged guide as closely as possible, I ended up becoming a top melee on Khyber.

[Thrudh]

I think it goes without saying that anyone with the intelligence to read this also has a mind of their own.

Heh, I'm not sure that goes without saying...

We ALREADY see plenty of new barbarians running through traps, expecting all cleric's mana to be used to heal them...

And now, someone with Shade's reputation, has released a DEFINITIVE guide stating that is EXACTLY how people should play barbarians...

[Thrudh]

Was this a guide to playing barbarians or a "How to Roll Like Axer" thread?

This.

[Thrudh]

Some of the guide is obvious humourous and meant to be taken lightly.. I might edit out some of that later after the guide is more complete as I know some people will take it too seriously.

Glad to see that cleared up... Anyone else, I would have been sure they were joking, but I wasn't 100% certain with you...

For some reason, I actually can believe that you think all wizard SP should be used hasting and raging you....

[Thrudh]

"Solar Phoenix" and heal amp... possibly a tank of tomorrow? The redesigns in the "hate/Intimi/threat" systems may only tell. There is a piece-meal change to these the dev's are digging into.

Heh, there's a good chance Shade will rage-quit again if the "Solar Phoenix" becomes the go-to tank of tomorrow.

[Shade]

Warning to all readers... Anytime Shade states an absolute (i.e. AC NEVER matters, Barbarians can NEVER intimi-tank, etc.), he's wrong.

There's nothing in the guide about intimdate. Barbarians can use it effectively, and infact I have it maxxed on one of mine. I generally don't recommend it to new players tho as it's too complex to understand exactly when you should use it and too rarely useful to bother.
AC never matters. I'll stand by recommendation to all Barbarians firmly, just a plain and simple fact.

I especially like the part where he tells people to scout with the barbarian running through traps, because half-damage on a high hp barbarian is much better than zero damage on an evasion character (and heaven forbid one EVER wait for a trap to be disabled)...

I think that's some pretty standard advice from that any good Barbarian vet would give. Your really out of ya mind if you think otherwise.
Even TURBINE disagree's with you:
Official DDO Intro video that comes with the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9KbdRwC9XQ&fmt=22&hd=1
Barbarian runs right through the trap like a madman and lives.
Halfling rogue jumps over it - guess she didn't roll a 1 =)

Official DDO oldchool Barbarian Class vidoe (sucks these were deleted, they were pretty much dead on):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WfR58mX2gA&hd=1

You also make a good scout, thanks to your speed, skill selection and trapsense.

Also in this video the Barbarian runs right throught the trap in Grey Moon Part1 (heh it's not implemented yet, but there was a trap added there in the future so it's kind of funny they picked that location)

Fact is Barbarians ARE the best scouts. Your arguement holds no weight and is pretty weak anyways, basically saying im right and your wrong with no evidence.

Evasion barely matters on traps in regards to winning or losing the quest. It might save the rogue some hitpoints sure, but it won't make the difference to keep him alive in critical situations.

Half Damage on a Barb = Fine. Full damage on a Barb = Hurt, but still alive. Save on a rogue = fine, but maybe a monster is around the corner waiting to squash him. Roll a 1 on a rogue = Rogues dead.

Thats the difference. Evasion doesn't always work. Hitpoints do.

Good Example:
Say the quest in the Barbarian Video:
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Quest..._Freeing_Achka
Party has a lvl8 Rogue, Barbarian, Cleric, Wizard, Bard and Paladin. They decide since they have a nice big balanced level 8 party they will do elite- seems to be a common misconception among noobs that "elite" just means the quest is +2 level scaling and don't understand it's more of a true difficulty settings.

Rogue leads and scouts. They clear thru the ogres well enough but take heavy damage and the clerics is out of spell points.
Rogue heads to the first trap - which he doesn't know is a trap (spot checks are very high on elite and most rogue builds recommend dumping wisdom).
Rolls a 1 and dies in the force trap near the ogres. Or hell it's elite, the DCs scale pretty severly, most average rogues could be rolling up to a 5-10 and failing.

Now he was stealthed so he didn't agro all the ogres that stand around in the trap, his stone is in the trap by them.. No way to rezz him, no way to get the stone without agroing the ogres.. Down to 5 members.

So the party moves in to clear the ogres and get his stone (They see the first trap, but the other 3 aren't set off). Bards runs in to facinate - swiftly dodging the first trap, 2nd trap kills him, down to 4. With the cleric out of spellpoints and people dying left and right, domino effect, everyone dies.

Had the Barbarian scouted:
He gets hit by the force trap - it nearly kills him, but thanks to his high hitpoints he lives. He was not stealthed, so he agro'd the ogres too! But he runs back to his party as he followed my advice.
After a quick lay on hands from the paladin and maybe a potion or 2, they are back to full strength.
Party is 6 strong and takes down the ogres safely away from the traps.
Barb goes back again, each time getting hit by each trap and living and getting healed. Party can then time the traps, and get to other side - where the trap box happens to be.

In this scenario, pretty much no matter what, The rogue dies. The trap box is too far for him to get too safely, and timing the traps while in slow-sneak mode is extremely hard.

This is a common scenario in DDO. Trap boxes are often guarded, and often on the far side of the trap. Rogues are not the best scouts.

In my opinion, one of the best enhancements for a new barbarian player is the Damage Reduction Boost... Jump into a crowd, hit that baby, and suddenly get 9 DR in a level 7 quest, and you're golden.. Shade would rather ....

Not true. For anyone who remembers, all of my original Barbarian guides and builds included damage reduction boost.
And I still highly recommend it at low levels. It's just not possible to fit and not as useful at high lvl, as you need damage boost instead for FB. So to make things simply I only include 1 set of enhancements now, but I will add a note about the DR boost/respec later to the guide.

Shade would rather hit Sprint Boost, and twitch...

Nor do I recommend twitch to low level players or for use at all anywhere but high levle in auto crit situations. Really sounds like you never read the guide at all.

Shade's advice works for Shade, not so much for new players...

Not according to the last 500+ PM's I got from new players saving they're having a blast enjoying my builds and that my advice worked out great for them. But you would know better im sure.