Ninja Spy/Assassin

[harrface]

So I fell in love with being a dark monk, being a Ninja Spy. Then I started seeing Shinato/Acrobats running around, I thought, "What if I swap all of that?" I decided I wanted to make a Ninja Spy/Assassin.
I've never seen one, heard of one, or caught the faintest wiff of a build on the Forums yet, and I'm never good at multiclassing.
Asking three things here, basically:
1. how should his start game be (TRing my monk into this if I get good results from this.
2. How should his end game turn out, at level 20
3. most importantly, will this be a good DPS machine at all? I feel like with sneak attack and his speed and power he should be.

I'm thinking this: Halfling, 13monk/7rogue ninjaspy/assassin. Dex build, uses short swords (GS at level 12) and wraps (for ToD) will spend his time in Wind Stance. Thinking he won't be trap disabling dedicated, but can do traps somewhat. Mostly DPS. Powerful Sneak attacks.
Tips, changes, etc, I want it all

[Aerendil]

You have the levels backwards. 13 Rog / 7 Monk (or 13 Rog / 6 Monk / 1 other of your choice) is ideal.
Pick up Assassin II, and you'll end up with 10d6 sneak attack dice.

You'll definitely want either radiance greensteel or wounding/puncturing shortswords to take advantage of your sneak dice.

Biggest drawback to the build, however, is that you're severely limited on weaponry - shortswords, handwraps, kamas, and handwraps only. Some people don't mind this at all. But it drives me nuts. To each their own.

If you go with your 12 Monk / 6 Rogue build, you'll have less sneak dice, and be sorely tempted to use handwraps for ToD... which is also a viable option I suppose. I guess it depends on whether you want shortswords or handwraps as your main weapon.

Anyways, it's definitely "flavor"-worthy and can be quite fun. Blur wands + your ninja fade + stoneskin + a solid AC (which you'll have) makes you very survivable.

[Musouka]

Yeah, the first tier of assassin isn't worth just having. The 2nd tier is where it's at with Assassination.

I have an assassin 2/ninja spy 1. It works out with getting a VERY high AC, and the rogue skills to easily disarm end game.

[harrface]

You have the levels backwards. 13 Rog / 7 Monk (or 13 Rog / 6 Monk / 1 other of your choice) is ideal.

I was thinking, something like that second (The levels I choose to start were suggested by a friend) 13 rog/6 monk/ 1 Fighter.
Shortswords with iCrit piercing, only switch to wraps for things with dr/bludgeon or switch real quick on bosses to ToD.

The lack of weapon choice doesn't affect me so much, since piercing for main, bludgeon to beat things with the dr/bludgeon and shuriken for ranged (Not that it's useful).

[harrface]

Yeah, the first tier of assassin isn't worth just having. The 2nd tier is where it's at with Assassination.

I wasn't sure if it was worth it for end game as in most end game quests (raids) it doesn't seem to be that useful.

Also, I'm looking for ideas on stat choices, was thinking, something like (not accurate)
low str- 14 or something
high dex- 16~ (17-18?)
High con- 15+
low-mid int (increase with Rogue Int for assassination DC)- 14~
High wis- 16~
None in Charisma, keep it at 8 (6 if dwarf)

[Kinerd]

Handwraps are probably your better option, at least for grouping. The speed advantage you get multiplies very nicely with your Haste Boost. You'll still be behind a pure assassin in terms of sneak attack damage, but the gap isn't as wide as you may think. I did some math here for the curious.

low str- 14 or something
high dex- 16~ (17-18?)
High con- 15+
low-mid int (increase with Rogue Int for assassination DC)- 14~
High wis- 16~
None in Charisma, keep it at 8 (6 if dwarf)

Unfortunately you're running into the problem that pretty much all monk builds have - it's really hard to get your stats where you want them. On a 32 point human, for instance, you would only have 2 points left after: 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 8, so you could only get a single 15 (probably Dex to get to GTWF with a +2 tome).

[solacerodgers]

I run with a good assassin build and like to wear my radience guard dts for him and stun as we go and we wipe things very fast but my question is as i have only ever played a monk can you assaniate with handwraps? I dont know how the skill works but i would think its got to be like vorps and has to be some kind of slash weapon?

[harrface]

I run with a good assassin build and like to wear my radience guard dts for him and stun as we go and we wipe things very fast but my question is as i have only ever played a monk can you assaniate with handwraps? I dont know how the skill works but i would think its got to be like vorps and has to be some kind of slash weapon?

I'm not 100% on wraps, but I know for sure it does not have to be a slashing, ie "vorpal capable weapon", my assassin runs with the rapier/SS combo, typical for a rogue, and that works. I'd assume wraps works.

[solacerodgers]

that is pretty cool to know thnx

[harrface]

Handwraps are probably your better option, at least for grouping. Unfortunately you're running into the problem that pretty much all monk builds have - it's really hard to get your stats where you want them. On a 32 point human, for instance, you would only have 2 points left after: 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 8, so you could only get a single 15 (probably Dex to get to GTWF with a +2 tome).

Say, I'm a TR, previous life monk. As I said before, I will spend my time in air stance, and using finesse. Would you think it would gimp me much to take 12, 16, 15, 14, 15, 8? Using finesse, str might not be as much of a game changer as dex could be.

Edit- Thinking I would wait for my third TR to do this, so lives will be monk -> monk -> this

[solacerodgers]

you might be ok bc you are up a hit die bc of your tr but if you were not i would say no. The tr die step will cover you.

[Kinerd]

Especially for sneak-attack finesse builds, I think strength is pretty overrated. cforce just made a post about how an increase of 2 to Strength from a particular point is only worth 1% DPS to a THF barbarian. They rely a lot more on Strength for damage, so I think it's reasonable to roughly estimate that starting with 12 Strength won't be the end of the world. The carrying capacity (especially on your halfling) will probably be pretty excruciating, though.

[harrface]

Especially for sneak-attack finesse builds, I think strength is pretty overrated. cforce just made a post about how an increase of 2 to Strength from a particular point is only worth 1% DPS to a THF barbarian. They rely a lot more on Strength for damage, so I think it's reasonable to roughly estimate that starting with 12 Strength won't be the end of the world. The carrying capacity (especially on your halfling) will probably be pretty excruciating, though.

I didn't mention it, but this build will likely involve +2 tomes to str, con, wis, and dex just to even it out, probably farmed from a past life.

[GingerOfDeath]

I like the Ninja Spy I/Tempest II half-elf with rogue dillittant focus for bonus sneak dmg. Plus half-elf gets the bonus bluffs. Or even drow ninja spy for the shortsword/shuriken bonus dmg. Or maybe Drow Kensei Tempest with scimitar focus. I'm fairly new to the game myself but have played P&P for over 20yrs. And all of the builds previously mentioned in previous posts are very tempting. I guess my biggest question would be how big of a difference does a pure build make over a multiclass? I understand trying for 3 prestige classes would be a big waste due to the lvl based DC's. Are there certain class combo's that end up doing more dps than pure builds? Fighters are best melee so I imagine they combine with any other melee rather well. But some classes share main stats like rogue and ranger. Are Tempest Assassins fairly uber endgame? As for this gent's ninja assassin build, I agree that 6monk would be bout as far as you'd want to go. 13 rogue looks nice for all the extra d6 sneak dmg. Have you thought of maybe a ranger splash early on for the free 2wep feat? Something like 2 ranger then 6monk and 12 rogue? So many different combo's it makes my mind race with excitement =-)

[harrface]

Are there certain class combo's that end up doing more dps than pure builds? Fighters are best melee so I imagine they combine with any other melee rather well. But some classes share main stats like rogue and ranger. Are Tempest Assassins fairly uber endgame? As for this gent's ninja assassin build, I agree that 6monk would be bout as far as you'd want to go. 13 rogue looks nice for all the extra d6 sneak dmg. Have you thought of maybe a ranger splash early on for the free 2wep feat? Something like 2 ranger then 6monk and 12 rogue? )

A few things.. on the topic of pure vs. multi class builds, it is entirely possible to get a multi classed character to over power a pure character, depending on how you do it. I recently saw a surge of fighter/bards, with just one level of bard and all points into preform for the fascinating song, quite powerful for soloing. So yeah, there's plenty of multi classes that are better than pure classes.
And, the build i think I've decided on is 13 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter. Fighter's bonus feat gets me the twf faster, while still having one more die on my sneak attack as opposed to level 12 rogue.

[Calebro]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...12#post3188212
with discussion following

*that was an older build: take opportunist instead of crippling strike