Half-Elf Ranger or Human

[Cold_Stele]

That... was actually an interesting and fair response.

Don't forget that Bluff can be used too, even when you're soloing, so HElf can Bluffx2.

You're right though that it's completely unquantifiable in terms of measuring DPS.

[Therigar]

I wonder why that can be.

This was in reply to my comment that any thread I participate in seems a good candidate for "Stupidest Thread Ever."

And, I get it that posters feel that by being insulting they can get people to stop adding stuff to a thread. This isn't the first time Cold_Stele has tried this technique.

But, just because I know it will frustrate them, I'm going to answer the question.

I am not afraid to post what others might be thinking but will not post because it runs contrary to popular opinion. They don't want to deal with the insults that come along when there isn't really any logical counter argument. They don't want to deal with the constant repetition of "but what about this" cases that get dreamed up.

Simple false statement made early in this thread about half-elves. The statement IS false. Everything else has been people wanting to either toss out insults or raise some exception to the rule. Every time an insult is noted it generates a response (from the same poster). Everytime an exception is discounted it generates another exception (from the same poster).

The thread becomes stupid because the only one trying to be civil and hold a reasonable discussion sits on my side of the keyboard. The, in this case, two posters intent on casting insults or raising "what about this" exceptions simply drone on and on and on.

And, for me it is valuable because it shows the type of thinking that is going on in the forums. As I replied to the "Stupidest Thread" post, there are some things that have come to light that are worth taking note of -- not the least of which is that "best" holds a different meaning to the various posters.

So, I think there is something to learn. I think there is something worth saying. And, I am willing to take being called dense or stupid and to say what people are thinking.

Cold_Stele makes a point of saying that I had a read fail and that they actually believe rogues do more DPS, etc. It means they really only posted to add what?

That I'm missing the sustained DPS point? That I didn't address half-elf diplomacy? The issue is: Half-elf = second highest DPS.

That is a true or false assertion. Cold_Stele eventually notes it is false. Only then they can't leave it alone, well, what about when the rogue has aggro. Wouldn't the half-elf do more DPS then?

In an absolute sense, no. If you don't get SA damage you don't get SA damage. Well, what if the half-elf sheds the aggro? Sure, you're right. But, is the lost DPS when SA was applied smaller than the DPS gained because you shed aggro? Hard to judge, sort of depends on play style and a slew of in-game factors.

What does it matter? Does it change which race is highest and which race is next highest DPS? No.

So, I post because I know I am correct. If another poster shows I'm wrong I'm big enough to admit it. (Darn you half-orc!) I'll say what others might say but won't because it isn't worth the hassle to them.

And, if that makes the thread stupid it might be because you don't like the answers.

[Therigar]

That... was actually an interesting and fair response.

Don't forget that Bluff can be used too, even when you're soloing, so HElf can Bluffx2.

You're right though that it's completely unquantifiable in terms of measuring DPS.

If you weren't so busy trying to sharp-shoot me to make your points you might find that most of my posts are interesting and fair.

Bluff, I've been noticing issues with bluff lately. Oh well....

[Malison]

My biggest problem with the half-elf vs halfling discussion here is that you throw out every class except rogue for deciding which is better. This means you're considering 9% of the characters in DDO. This ridiculous bias in considerations is enough to invalidate the whole arguement.

As for rogue vs barb,

And, I'd have to ask you, "Why is reality different from the theory?"

4. Gimp melees. When SA is procing the other party members can't generate enough hate aggro or intimidation to hold aggro.

This. If rogue and barbarian are as close in dps as the barbarians will claim, then a rogue with -10% hate gen will never pull aggro. This then invalidates every argument they make that the rogue will lose his sneak attack. But what fool rogue would only take subtle backstabbing 1? If you're going for max dps rogue, you'd take max threat reduction so you can keep it up longer. With subtle 4 and tharne's, the rogue has to be doing twice as much damage as anyone else to take aggro.

Ingame rogues do not fit the max dps model because they know they can't rely on the other melee to come anywhere close to their own dps potential.

[Therigar]

My biggest problem with the half-elf vs halfling discussion here is that you throw out every class except rogue for deciding which is better.

Well, certainly -- if we are talking about "best" as an across-the-board assessment with a wide variety of targets and circumstances -- it is unfair to toss out the other character classes. That is clearly the result of MY view that "best" is not "better sometimes, worse sometimes, but after looking at every case the winner is." My view is that "best" is the one, top, DPS output.

So, other classes get thrown to the curb because there is no class that can compete with rogue for pure DPS when you ignore all the exceptions and special cases. As the discussion has moved along it is clear, however, that this is not where most people's thoughts are. Most people are looking at an across-the-board understanding.

And, frankly, I don't think there is a clear "best" in that case. As I indicated in an earlier response, there are too many variables and a lot of the answer depends on where a player spends the majority of their time.

[NaturalHazard]

I'd like to nominate this for the "Stupidest Thread Ever" award.

lolz !!!

/signed!!

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Yeah, what happened to this thread anyway? What's all the fuss about?

Last time I checked it 2 days ago we were talking about Helf dilly's with Ranger multi's. And how the Monk Dilly was probably not that great since it does not allow you to get ALL of the AC bonus a true 18/1/1 gets...etc. etc.