I'm fed up with Hound raids.

[lord_of_rage]

I think I might be up to 5 in 5 years. So 1/yr is my average.


W T F?

How do we go from doing this in four minutes at level 13-16 without fail, to failing more than completing. What is this B.S, about charming the pups in 30 second increments. Why? so the mother dog and the other 2 pups can pound on the 1 charmed pup for 30 seconds then after we charm the second pup the last one and her mother can pound on our 2 charmed dogs for another 30 seconds. So that now we finally have 3 charmed dogs it's time for the beholders to spawn and uncharm them? This is totally f ing ********. What f ing noob came up with this idea? Or even better we don't haste the pups when their charmed why the f not?

These newbs need to own up and not try to re-invent the f ing wheel. Give us some credit. We ran it 3X/day almost every day and were done in 3-4 minutes. Are any of you noobs getting done in 2 minutes? If so then show us a screenshot because we have several 3 minute screenshots posted on here from like 2 years ago when we were all trying to see who could get the fastest completion. Do you GET that? Not trying to complete, but completing the quest but completing it the fastest we could. Completing was the norm and failing never happened.

FYI yes I do cuss more than my husband.

No no keep up the wine.Its much more fun. You only cuss more than eric when you are drunk. Hell when that happens you cuss more than the entire US Navy. And yes the one cleric 4 min completion hound run with a half drunk beergirl healing. I think she was cursing and trash talking more than throwing heals. Dont fall asleep in the raid this time. Just remember all the beergirl has spoken!!!!

[Disavowed]

No no keep up the wine.Its much more fun. You only cuss more than eric when you are drunk. Hell when that happens you cuss more than the entire US Navy. And yes the one cleric 4 min completion hound run with a half drunk beergirl healing. I think she was cursing and trash talking more than throwing heals. Dont fall asleep in the raid this time. Just remember all the beergirl has spoken!!!!

Are you kidding she was drunk when she posted that. We had a nice afternoon sipping cocktails by the pool until we watched the sunset over the lake. By then the booze settled in and the angry she gnoll reared her ugly head. I was reading the posts and she went postal when she saw the thread. It was hilarious she was yelling at the noobs instead of me. Always nice. (Irish+Indian+booze=roll the dice on what loot you're going to get. Kind of like a potion of wonder). I had to kick her off the keyboard and type what she was trying to type like I was her little byatch secretary because here typing skills went the opposite direction of her sobriaty (spelling).

Made for a good night afterwards though. Drunk Beergirl=crazy, wild, well you get the point. Not just the standard vanilla every day stuff. LOL

[Flugzeug]

Hey there SierraNevada,

I must say, this has been one of the best and most productive posts I've seen on the forums in a while. I've been playing DDO for about a year, and in November of 2010, I realized Hound of Xoriat had some loot that I wanted for my cleric. I saw an lfm up for it on hard, and I figured why not. I joined and it went smoothly. Since I didn't get any of the Lorriks loot the first run, 3 days later I wanted to run it. No lfm was up. I did several other raids and kept watching but there weren't any LFMs for Hound. So I put up my own lfm for hound and since I thought it was such an easy quest I put in the LFM that we'd do it on hard. The group filled up, and we were having our pre-quest conversations on the way through the sub. That's when I told the group, "Hey, I am going to be honest here, this is my first time leading the quest, and I've only run it once before, ever...but it was on hard and it went smoothly, seems like an easy quest." Then I said, "If anyone knows the quest well and would like to lead us through, that would be awesome, if not, we'll just have some fun with me trying to get things organized."

Well, lucky for me, you had joined my lfm. You immediately said that you had run the quest tons of times and you'd have no problem explaining things. Anyhow, long story short, the quest went well and I appreciated your input. I added you to my friends list that day with the description (knows xoriat). I don't think I've teamed up with you since, but I wish I had/will. I have 10 completions on Hound now, since that first one in November. All were on Hard, except right after Christmas, I was thinking, this is easy quest, I want to do elite. I put up an lfm for Elite and after 2 tries we got it. Then, 3 days later, on elite, my group failed twice and we decided to do hard and completed it on hard. I was fortunate to get 2 more completions on hard after that for 9 total completions, and only 3 failed attempts.

BUT....then **** hit the fan. I put an lfm up about a week ago for hard, and the group failed 3 times in a row. I gave up that day and 2 days later tried again, failing twice...so that night, I just put an lfm up for Normal and did it on normal. It was weird. I thought it was an easy quest for 9 completions, but the 10 completion took me more than a week to get...I can't explain it. Other than, I was lucky on my first 9 that I probably had lots of vets or people with great gear that made the quest seem easy. With people new to the quest, I don't do a good job of getting them prepared, whereas with vets they just listen to what I say and fill in the blanks...

Anyhow, I would really like to team up with you for at least several hound runs. Shoot, I'd be willing to do 100s with you and other people, as long as I learn how to do them. I want to learn it well and run it well. I was always doing it on Hard because I haven't gotten the Lorrik's shield or the Necklace yet, and both would help my cleric out quite a bit. Even though I have 1 completion on elite, and 8 on hard, and 1 on normal, I've only seen the necklace once, and when it popped, a bard rolled on it and beat me out. I've never seen the shield. I've basically just come to the conclusion that I"ll have to run it 40 times to get the shield and necklace. Since I only have 25% of my runs done, I have many more to run. I would love to team up with you to learn this quest well, so that all of my future runs, whether I join a group or lead a group, would run smoother. I also enjoyed the quest up until the recent failures, so if you can help me understand and do the quest better, I would probably run it just for the completions and the fun.

I have 4 main characters and I always have at least one of them off timer for Hound, send me a tell if you are running a Hound anytime. Or post in here and I'll try to be online when you run it. I play from 330pm to midnight Eastern US time, most days. With occasional breaks for food, life, etc. I'm glad to have seen this post you made, because I certainly remember my Hound run with you was great. Also, I was shocked that I had no failures with Hound on Hard, until just the past week...and all of a sudden, it's ridiculously hard to complete on hard. This post has given me some good ideas on perhaps what went wrong with the recent runs, that perhaps didn't go wrong with previous runs.

Schwarzhemd (level 20 cleric) is my main cleric, and he's the one that would like the Lorrik's gear. He runs Hound every day he's off timer.

Tezontle (level 20 fvs) is my warforged favored soul, he doesn't want any of the lorrik's gear mostly because he's melee and uses the Torc, but he'll run Hound just for tomes and completions and such.

Blaueshemd (level 18 cleric) is my soon to be TR'd into a dual weapon melee fvs, but for now, is a cleric. She doesn't need Lorriks stuff either, but if you're running hound and Schwarz is on timer, I can use Blau to team up with you or Tez.

I also have a Level 20 wizard named Nottim. He could run Hound as well, anytime.

As for bad leaders or leaders that have the star but don't know the quest well. I'm guilty. I even had the star for Tower of Despair the first time I ran it...and I was on my cleric and one of only 2 healers...but, I always let the group know that it's my first run ahead of time, so someone else can fill in needed information/planning. I just find it much faster to put up an lfm when I want to do a quest, instead of waiting for other LFMs to show up. But yeah, it's been funny to see some people's reaction to me saying I've never done the quest before. But hey, in all the times I've led a ToD run, I've always had a completion...then again, I'm only 3/3 so that's not all that impressive...

Anyhow, look me up. I'd love to team up with you for Hound or shoot, any other quest for that matter.

Ciao 4 now,

[Disavowed]

Ty for the kind words. I would be glad to run it with you. Needles to say all my toons have all the gear out of there so anything I get will go up for roll. We will get you your necklace. Now the shield is a different story. It took my cleric more then sixty runs I finally won it on a roll as it didn't show up on any of 20th multiplyer runs.

Can you run one tomorrow if so what time? Please specify east or west time zone.

We're doing drunken shroud/hound runs tonight but I don't think I can drink enough shots between each round and at the end of each quest to get thru all 17 toons. So I'm certain I'll have one off timer. But something in the A.M. Might be a bad idea as I'm anticipating a hangover.

[Flugzeug]

Excellent, Schwarzhemd is off timer as of today, and I can use him tomorrow with you. I'll be online probably all day today and tomorrow. I don't have any plans. Do you want to plan on 7 p.m. Eastern Time, tomorrow? If that doesn't work, I'll let you name a time and I can be on since I think I'll be playing about 12 hours tomorrow with just an hour break for dinner.

Yeah, I like running on hard because I've gotten a couple tomes from the end reward on hard runs. I got some junk end reward from the normal run I did recently. So it'd be awesome to learn the ropes and the ins and outs so I can do more hard/elite runs.

Wow, it does bring back memories though. In the subterrane before the Hound, you and me were talking about Ruins of Threnal back when you couldn't heal Coyle at all in part 3 of the Eastern Excavation. I almost wish I could load up an old version of ddo from years back and try out that quest with the way it used to be...I imagine that quest was much like Hound is now, requiring good teamwork and strategy. All in all though, I'm glad we can now heal Coyle...there would be nothing like failing in the 14th minute of a 15 minute defend, and also having the quest be worth only a couple thousand XP anyway.

Yeah, if it takes me 60 runs that's ok...I hope not, but I'm patient. I did solo heal a few hounds already to make sure that no other cleric/fvs would roll against me for the lorriks. But after a few of those I decided that as long as I enjoy the quest, doing potentially more runs, (with 2 healers) is better. And the Hounds where I solo healed were definitely not as enjoyable as duo-healing, since most of my groups have used the hunter method and everyone in the group gets pounded because of it. Nothing like healing dogs, tank, and other melee at the same time..I had to use quicken the whole time and burn through SP so fast it made me a nervous wreck that I'd run out before the quest is done. I do like the idea of everyone staying in the inside corridors, much less SP needed for healing that way.

[Emili]

Rosewood actually hates the Hound... It annoys her almost as much as a badly puggged ToD. She done told me shall I impose on her to a set of pugs down there again she'd pack her gear and leave my account. Though she will perform for puppies among friends and acquaintances.

[NaturalHazard]

one thing I hate about hound fails is it takes time to get back there again to retry. If it was in a spot you could get to in 2 minutes it would be less of a hassle reforming. But still it is annoying failing this raid regardless.

[learst]

For some reason, HoX holds a special place in my heart. I was just checking my raid completions that day and I realised that HoX was the raid with the highest completions! Not that I raid often, but I guess when it comes to HoX and another raid, I usually pick HoX.

Maybe cos I usually run it on my bard and gives my bard a chance to fell all-special and stuff.. :P

[Disavowed]

Tomorrow at 7 eastern it is.

I'll put a post on Khyber forums and see how many mere we can get.

[karl_k0ch]

Thanks for the awesome collection of information, OP.

Still there is one question unanswered:

Does Augment Summoning help with the puppies? (the interesting part is bolded)

Your summoned creatures, charmed minions, and hirelings have +4 to all ability scores, increased health, and increased fortification.

[Kaeldur]

I had a hound run a few days ago that despite a rocky start did finish successfully but at the start I just thought, "*** were you thinking?". We had a player who bravely told us all he had never run hound before so we gave him the quick and dirty run down over voice and chat. We mentioned several times to not kill anything dog like at any point unless instructed otherwise. He played competently all the way to the raid entrance. However, as soon as we entered the raid he immediately, before buffs were even cast, ran into the center and started s**t housing puppies and mama alike. He wasn't the designated tank and the healers wisely opted to let things work themselves out naturally.

After the situation had stabilized again we reexplained everything and raised him at which point he performed fine. However, who the h*ll, on a raid they have never done, immediately just B-lines on entrance towards the biggest purple named they see, sans buffs, and starts wailing on it? The prospect of vehement nerd rage alone should have been more than sufficient deterrent had I been in his shoes.

This guy

I actually learned from this thread... I have been misinformed about several concepts of the raid, and wasn't at all aware of any other method of running it if not having a "hunting party". Next time I lead this I'll try to do the guard method. If anyone could explain it to me precisely it would be appreciated

[Disavowed]

This guy

I actually learned from this thread... I have been misinformed about several concepts of the raid, and wasn't at all aware of any other method of running it if not having a "hunting party". Next time I lead this I'll try to do the guard method. If anyone could explain it to me precisely it would be appreciated

That's a funny video. I love watching it every time.

The guard method is pretty simple. Have whoever picks up the 4th stone in charge of announcing they have the 4th stone. They also give the command for hunters to collapse into the middle once he has the 4th stone. Upon his command the hunting party collapses to the middle and evenly spread out in the corridors.

Once they're split evenly in the corridors. Have the caster fog the corridor but keep the fog near the center not anywhere near the outer edge. If if gets on the outer edge it will pull the roaming mobs to the middle. You wil still get anywhere from 1-3 mobs that come into the center. The melees announce they have a mob and what corridor so others can come and help. If you're running level appropriate they could use the help as they won't be getting any heals. Once the mob in the corridor dies the melees go back to their original corridor and start guarding it again. Make sure they're close enough to be able to tab target the mobs running around the outside but far enough away to not be seen by the mobs. This allows them to see if a beholder is coming. If one does spawn they need to go fight it on the outside not in the corridor as it will most likely uncharm the dogs. But this should never happen as the quest should be over before the beholders ever spawn.

The healers are in charge of only healing the pups not any of the melees after the first pup has been charmed. Make that clear to them. Also have the caster or bard rehaste the pups then have the melees gather for a quick haste as well. If any melees die have the bard or another melee raise them not the healers. As long as everyone does their job and only their job and not try to do everything it goes flawless. You'll have more problems from people trying to do too much.

[caution]

As the thread is still alive, I think there is another solution to the problem that needs to be floated...

We need Shafted to attend every PUG group!

Ok, this wont guarantee a completion or better education, but maybe having him at his 'best' maybe enough to pull these new-school Khyber pugger's into line.

PS: Just don't let him collect the stones whenever he is drunk!

[caution]

Oh, and we should also be thankful that none of the newbies are running the abbot!

[Kaeldur]

Hmmm, thx for the explanation...

As for the buffs, what should I be doing (and in any order)?

By what I have picked up, buffs should be somewhat these in this order:
- Haste, Mass Bulls, Mass Bears
In the meanwhile bards should be Inspiring the pups.

Should the bard also throw Good Hope? And what of Greater Heroism? I heard and apparently perpetuated a misconception that any buffs that increase the pups' saves is bad. By what I read here the saves have nothing to do with charm breaking, only time.

Also I read a few things from other players that weren't answered and made me think:
- Break Enchantment on pups improves healing on them? (I had never heard about that)
- Augment Summoning... does that affect the pups in any manner? (check a few posts above)

I have also always advised the tank to try and get the pups to flank Xyz, does that actuall help?

I think that's all I remember for now...


P.S.: I as well had done at least 30-ish easy completions before I started to fail... I laughed on my first HoX fail cause it was new to me... Then fails just became so common that I've been wondering what has been happening. Just like a recent Reaver fail (my first), where everyone jumped on the boss before the only guy with fly reached the lever... and he died on the spikes. And my first ever fail in pt3 of Shroud. I had never seen the wall until recently. Quality in Thelanis has dropped a lot lately (I took a 5-6 month afk, and then when I'm back fails seem to have become much more common).

[Calebro]

I have also always advised the tank to try and get the pups to flank Xyz, does that actuall help?

If you can get the first pup charmed in front of Xyz, and charm the other two behind her, you only have to heal 1 pup the entire time because the two flanking pups aren't taking any damage.
This is ideally what you should be trying to do every single time, but if the person with the pup's aggro doesn't know this he'll likely just be next to Xyz off to one of the sides which means you don't know where the pup will go after it gets charmed.

[Disavowed]

Hmmm, thx for the explanation...

As for the buffs, what should I be doing (and in any order)?

By what I have picked up, buffs should be somewhat these in this order:
- Haste, Mass Bulls, Mass Bears
In the meanwhile bards should be Inspiring the pups.

Should the bard also throw Good Hope? And what of Greater Heroism? I heard and apparently perpetuated a misconception that any buffs that increase the pups' saves is bad. By what I read here the saves have nothing to do with charm breaking, only time.

Also I read a few things from other players that weren't answered and made me think:
- Break Enchantment on pups improves healing on them? (I had never heard about that)
- Augment Summoning... does that affect the pups in any manner? (check a few posts above)

I have also always advised the tank to try and get the pups to flank Xyz, does that actuall help?

I think that's all I remember for now...


P.S.: I as well had done at least 30-ish easy completions before I started to fail... I laughed on my first HoX fail cause it was new to me... Then fails just became so common that I've been wondering what has been happening. Just like a recent Reaver fail (my first), where everyone jumped on the boss before the only guy with fly reached the lever... and he died on the spikes. And my first ever fail in pt3 of Shroud. I had never seen the wall until recently. Quality in Thelanis has dropped a lot lately (I took a 5-6 month afk, and then when I'm back fails seem to have become much more common).

You're correct on the order of buffing the pups. Get the buffs that do damage first. They're the most important. Break enchantment GH and good hope won't do any good as for augmnet I can't say but my guess is no

[Disavowed]

As the thread is still alive, I think there is another solution to the problem that needs to be floated...

We need Shafted to attend every PUG group!

Ok, this wont guarantee a completion or better education, but maybe having him at his 'best' maybe enough to pull these new-school Khyber pugger's into line.

PS: Just don't let him collect the stones whenever he is drunk!

Great thoughts there. I can't +1 you til I give some love to others or I would.

[Zectarash]

Haven't done HoX in a while, and I only failed 1/3 runs, because of one guy who didn't follow instructions
(let's do norm- oh wait, our FvS entered on hard, oh well, just don't do anything until we finish bu- who just threw that!?!) Zectarash: think they're onto us? FvS: Nah, just don't let them become aware it's a plot.

[Flugzeug]

using my laptop here to post. I assume by now you finished your 2nd run. I switched to my favored soul to run the 2nd run of hound with you and the game crashed...when I went to restart my computer windows was hosed. I'm still trying to get it to boot. I'm glad it didn't crash inside hound, but still, I'm ready to bash some equipment. I'll have to catch you later for some more runs. Feel free to let me know when you plan on doing more runs and I'll run them with you on any of my toons. Quite a smooth first run we had. I was looking forward to the 2nd run