Spears please

[krissonofpark]

Many people like playing with 2handed weapons, they're the favoured weapon style of half orcs.. who are themselves often druids in eberron lore?

Plus, how has techonology passed beyond pointy sticks when you can get one handed pointy things which happen to be made of metal (rapiers, shortswords, daggers), sticks which arent pointy & sometimes made of metal, other times of wood (quarterstaff), smaller sticks with lumps of metal on the end (maces/hammers/morningstar), large sticks with lumps of metal on the end (mauls) & lumps of wood (clubs/scepters/greatclubs)?

First off: yes some people prefer to use a large single weapon, instead of a smaller weapon or possible two smaller weapons and that is there choice, in fact are partically agree, when it comes to use of modern weapons that is (why drop a thousand bombs, when you could just drop one), but when it comes to older or D&D weapons I disagree and prefer a lighter weapon that does as much damage.

To compare the forging of a Sword with adding a point to a stick is like comparing been on a handglider with running along with your arms out and flapping them or a medieval hand cannon with an AK47. For along time in more than one culture the forging of a Sword was considered Magic and those who could purform this considered Wizards.
See the origins of the Legend of King Arthur.

Now show me someone who made a spear, added a point to a stick that was considered magical.

[Khanyth]

dont know how you could have a druid without spears, just my 2cents

I think you meant to type this:

dont know how you could have a druid without staffs, just my 2cents

I've never seen or heard of a spear wielding druid. Now staff wielding... they're a dime a dozen

[doubledge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQUvWlp30eM

heh. this is hillarious

AND related to spears

[Rinnaldo]

Can anyone seriously say that the addition of Spears would make any sense?

It's a medieval setting, they are in the D&D player's handbook. What doesn't make sense about it?

If someone was to suggest the addition of a new weapon could they please suggest a weapon that would in fact be better and/or more powerful than the ones already available, thank you.

Guns. Oh, wait, they don't fit at all, because it's a medieval setting. They would be more powerful and better, but guess what? Spears make a lot more sense in this world.

What's so great about a two-handed weapon?

Choice.

I disagree and prefer a lighter weapon that does...

Exactly. Don't you enjoy having the ability to choose? Choice is a very important part of what makes the game fun. If people choose to use a crappy weapon that hardly ever hits, uses two hand slots, and weighs 40 lbs., but they are having fun, what's wrong with that? Should they not have the choice to do so?

[Shaz]

+1 Spears would be cool.

Although for best effect they would need a longer reach than normal weapons. Is that even possible? I don't know if it was D&D, but I've played some games where a person could stand behind the safety of a fellow solider and still be able to attack the enemy with a spear. It was their primary benefit, as I recall. Oh yes, that was Warhammer fantasy.

[Zachski]

krisson, there's more to a game than numbers. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called a game. It'd be called a math test.

[Veriden]

Quite frankly I'd like to see all of the original weapons from the player's handbook and a few other books for simple, martial and exotic.

Full blades any one? 2d8 massive sword yes please.

personally speaking we should remember ddo is an rpg as well, so its not always 'you must use what is best at all times' it's about character prefference. Too many 12 year old power gamer mentalities have truly messed with this game in my opinion. Should spears be added? Yes, are spears the most effective weapon ever, no, does that make it so we can't have them for our characters that do have personality? Apparently. If you're in the game just to kill stuff, you're playing the wrong game. Go to halo or Call of duty. The creators of dnd are already going to rise as zombies for this montrosity and eat turbine's brains as it is...don't make them come after you too.

[krissonofpark]

krisson, there's more to a game than numbers. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called a game. It'd be called a math test.

Actually I do think this is a Game, should be played as such, should always be Fun to play and the last thing I want when playing is a maths test, I just object to silly suggestions (no matter what sort of Player they are by).

I feel the addition of Spears would be a backward step, especially when far better weapons are already available, extra work would be required to introduce an item that only a small number of Player would regularly use (some people would use them some of the time, some may even use them all the time, but most people would not use them all of the time) and other better weapons are not available in Game, which could be introduced.

Sorry but you also made me post on a thread that should have ended some time last week, so keeping it going for even longer, thanks.

[Dandonk]

Whips? that might attract some of the wrong crowd to the game... :P

We're already here

[Zachski]

Actually I do think this is a Game, should be played as such, should always be Fun to play and the last thing I want when playing is a maths test, I just object to silly suggestions (no matter what sort of Player they are by).

I feel the addition of Spears would be a backward step, especially when far better weapons are already available, extra work would be required to introduce an item that only a small number of Player would regularly use (some people would use them some of the time, some may even use them all the time, but most people would not use them all of the time) and other better weapons are not available in Game, which could be introduced.

Sorry but you also made me post on a thread that should have ended some time last week, so keeping it going for even longer, thanks.

So far, you're the only person who thinks it's silly, and have taken to mocking anyone who likes the idea. In fact, you did that in another thread.

I'm not exactly taken with you, considering that you have a very skewed view of how things should be, especially since "spear" is not a sharp stick, it's a pole with a piercing piece of metal affixed to the tip. It has many tactical advantages over swords, such as reach. if you have a short sword and I have a spear, I'm going to hit you first even if we start at the same time. Spears DO have a tactical advantage, as they should in DDO - reach, and considering Two-handed weapons already have longer reach than one-handed weapons, it shouldn't actually be that hard to actually program reach into a spear.

[Monroid]

One word: Tolis

[Wraith_Sarevok]

One reason for adding spears to the game, if only for melee THF characters, is that spears with the Good property on them can bypass Rakshasa DR.

Currently, there is no known two-handed weapon that can do this.

[doubledge]

also, it makes sense then giving drow a bonus to spear damage, as they get the other peircing weapons.

[Roronoa177]

/signed

Spears would definitely add more funsies and flavor to builds such as fighters, barbarians, rangers n maybe monks.

[doubledge]

/signed

Spears would definitely add more funsies and flavor to builds such as fighters, barbarians, rangers n maybe monks.

you forgot paladins and clerics. i have seen many a game where they use those a lot.

[NaturalHazard]

First off: yes some people prefer to use a large single weapon, instead of a smaller weapon or possible two smaller weapons and that is there choice, in fact are partically agree, when it comes to use of modern weapons that is (why drop a thousand bombs, when you could just drop one), but when it comes to older or D&D weapons I disagree and prefer a lighter weapon that does as much damage.

To compare the forging of a Sword with adding a point to a stick is like comparing been on a handglider with running along with your arms out and flapping them or a medieval hand cannon with an AK47. For along time in more than one culture the forging of a Sword was considered Magic and those who could purform this considered Wizards.
See the origins of the Legend of King Arthur.

Now show me someone who made a spear, added a point to a stick that was considered magical.

Isnt there an irish hero forgot his name who used a spear? And then there are some chinese heros whose main weapon was a spear, spears are more than just pointy sticks they have just as many variations as swords maybe more. lol why do you think they still used spears(pikes) even during the english civil war when they where starting to use guns? Its the infantry mans choice of weapon and the cavary of many nations still used lances right up to the begining of last century. Why do you think spears are so universal in nearly every culture and time period in the world spears pole arms where widely used. Heck we use bayonants to this day, if swords are so great why not have every infantryman use those as a back up? instead we got a knife, which you stick on the end of your gun and hey presto, what type of weapon does this most resemble?

The norse god odin was said to use a magic spear named gunguir and the irish hero cuchulain used a spear named Gae Bulg. another irish spear the spear of lugh the champion of the gods. Rhongomiant king arthurs spear. The japnese halberd Ame-no-nuboko which formed the first island. To name a few.

Also the zulu assegai and ikiwa that they used to defeat the british at Isandlwana, the New Zealand Maori Taiaha, Hmmmm what was the most prestigious event at middle ages tournaments was it the sword? no it was the joust.............. and they even had competitions for the long spear on foot. lol just a pointed stick............. shows how much you know.

[NaturalHazard]

you forgot paladins and clerics. i have seen many a game where they use those a lot.

also if we get them druids...........................

[doubledge]

also if we get them druids...........................

i'd prefer kobolds. please note the post in my sig.

[krissonofpark]

So far, you're the only person who thinks it's silly, and have taken to mocking anyone who likes the idea. In fact, you did that in another thread.

I'm not exactly taken with you, considering that you have a very skewed view of how things should be, especially since "spear" is not a sharp stick, it's a pole with a piercing piece of metal affixed to the tip. It has many tactical advantages over swords, such as reach. if you have a short sword and I have a spear, I'm going to hit you first even if we start at the same time. Spears DO have a tactical advantage, as they should in DDO - reach, and considering Two-handed weapons already have longer reach than one-handed weapons, it shouldn't actually be that hard to actually program reach into a spear.

Do you mean when I thought playing a Kobold was silly?

Actually there is very little difference between taking a knife and sharpening the end of a stick and the fixing of a sharp piece of metal onto the end of a pole, does exactly the same thing and is equally effective.

First at what point did I suggest it would be a short sword I was holding? If if it was a short sword then I would either be holding a shield in my other hand or the sword would not be my primary weapon, historically a short sword was used by a Warrior using a large shield or as a secondary weapon for use at close quarters or after the primary had been used or become of no use.

Isnt there an irish hero forgot his name who used a spear? And then there are some chinese heros whose main weapon was a spear, spears are more than just pointy sticks they have just as many variations as swords maybe more. lol why do you think they still used spears(pikes) even during the english civil war when they where starting to use guns? Its the infantry mans choice of weapon and the cavary of many nations still used lances right up to the begining of last century. Why do you think spears are so universal in nearly every culture and time period in the world spears pole arms where widely used. Heck we use bayonants to this day, if swords are so great why not have every infantryman use those as a back up? instead we got a knife, which you stick on the end of your gun and hey presto, what type of weapon does this most resemble?

The norse god odin was said to use a magic spear named gunguir and the irish hero cuchulain used a spear named Gae Bulg. another irish spear the spear of lugh the champion of the gods. Rhongomiant king arthurs spear. The japnese halberd Ame-no-nuboko which formed the first island. To name a few.

Also the zulu assegai and ikiwa that they used to defeat the british at Isandlwana, the New Zealand Maori Taiaha, Hmmmm what was the most prestigious event at middle ages tournaments was it the sword? no it was the joust.............. and they even had competitions for the long spear on foot. lol just a pointed stick............. shows how much you know.

OK how should we answer all this?

To answer your Irish Hero I will just say that I am English and leave it at that, though I shall respect your Chinese Heroes, as long as we note that a wide variety of weapons are associated with them.

Yes a spear has reach and is the only effective melee weapon for a man on foot to use against a man on horseback (the longer the better). During the English Civil Wars you would be extremely lucky to hit the side of a barn with the muskets available, thus forcing the use of mass ranks of pikemen to counter the enemy cavalry, actually resulting in very brutal hand-to-hand combat using whatever was available, when the cannons of both sides were not ripping up the mass ranks. Now I have no idea why anyone at the beginning of the 20th century thought that cavalry armed with lances had any place on the battlefield and the First World War quickly proved that cavalry had long past it use in warfare (yes I do know that in the early part of the Second World War that cavalry appeared), note by this point guns had become considerable more effective (have I mentioned guns before on this thread?) Also if anyone can explain why bayonets are still used, please do so, beyond me.

Now the reason so many cultures used the spear as a weapon and it was commonplace as a weapon is extremely simple, it was extremely simple to produce, could be made by almost anyone and the point could be made from a very wide range of substances, where the sword is a complicated procedure and throughout many cultures (as I pointed out before) the manufacturers of swords were considered master crafts-men or even magic users. You mention both the Norse and the Japanese, both well known swordsmen, in fact in Japanese Warfare name something more Famous than their swords.

The Joust: You do know that the objective of jousting was to unseat your opponent, not to kill them (any deaths incurred during the events were considered accidents), hence a long stick to push them off their horse or to break on their armour, riding up and striking them with your sword would be more likely to be fatal.

I believe that the Zulu won due to surprise and superior numbers, not the weapons of either side.
I apologise for my complete lack of knowledge on the history of the Maori, sorry.
I'm sorry but you did not mention the Spear of Destiny or Holy Lance, must not forget that one.

Right you have me on reach, unfortunately we do not have mounted foes or mounts for our characters, so not sure your advantage there and yes you have found noted people who used spears as weapons and I have not searched for or search engined for more people who used swords or famous swords.

Have I answered anything, let me know if there is anything else.

Just one more thing, if you really want spears and this was not just a silly suggestion thread, started to see what happens, then I say why not, go on ask for spears, don't forget all the other items in the Players Manual that are missing from DDO as well.

[Shaz]

Oh yeah! In those Chinese action movies, spear wielders would have the option of hitting their opponent with the blunt haft of the spear or stabbing them with the sharp end - thus you have a dual piercing/blunt weapon! Now obviously nothing like this exists in DDO, but you could have it alternate - every other attack would be blunt. Best if it matched the animation, but not necessary. Then you'd have a weapon that would at least not be useless against skeletons! But the biggest advantage of a spear is its reach, indeed. But its not like they couldn't implement that in DDO - and it would be handy because you could stand out of reach of creatures - IE, behind a tank blocking a doorway - and still be able to hit the enemy.

An even more important use of a spear is to "set" it against a charging opponent - although in history this was primarily used against the dreaded cavalry charge, one particular situation in DDO immediately comes to mind: A raging ogre or a charging troll! Would be cool if you had a "set the spear" ability which immobilizes or severly slows you, but if a charging opponent (ogre/troll) runs into you they take triple damage. Or something like that.

Not like Turbine would ever implement any of that, but it sounds fun. I'd say go with the blunt/pierce alternating attacks - seems like that shouldn't be too hard, and would be quite useful.

P.S. oh yeah the show that really made me think the spear could be awesome was Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit. Anyone else seen that? Very cool show.