Tensers Transformation needs adjustment

[GunboatDiplomat]

The +4 Strength dexterity and Constitution bonuses for Tensers are currently enhancement bonuses which makes them pretty much useless as everyone of high level already has enhancement bonuses through items. I suggest they become a type of bonus which stacks with enhancement bonuses.

Yes it also makes your BAB equivalent to your level but this is widely available for 1.06 mins with a cheap divine power clickie. And the penalty of not being able to cast any spells at all is so severe you should at least gwet something for that.

This would change Tensers from a spell no one ever ever uses to a spell which MAY be of situational use to a small number of builds (most especially my gimpy fighter/wizzie ofc). "Will I cast tensers? But what if I need to recast displacement or haste???"

[elraido]

Negative to the stacking. It will only push the game further and further into the realms of absurdity for str and con vs pnp

[HallowedOne]

Negative to the stacking. It will only push the game further and further into the realms of absurdity for str and con vs pnp

What do you mean?

I think Tenser's should be rethought of as it was suggested so a new branch of builds could be created.

[EinarMal]

Negative to the stacking. It will only push the game further and further into the realms of absurdity for str and con vs pnp

Seriously?

A pure fighter gets what +11 to strength from enhancements, Tenser's is self only a Wizard is getting no where close to Fighter/Barbarian levels.

This would at least make it usable vs. Divine Power clickies potentially, most would probably still use DP because it does not cripple spell casting.

[Angelus_dead]

It would be useful to adjust Tenser's Transformation, but stacking bonuses isn't a beneficial approach.

The best fix would be difficult and complicated; but a minor change that could be done quickly is to raise the enhancement stat bonuses from +4 to +6 (equivalent to from Divine Power). That way, at least, Tenser's bonus wouldn't be at all inferior to what you can get from a DP clicky, which has the enormous advantage of not interfering with spellcasting.

[Dandonk]

I would like to have the "cannot cast spells" part changed to a +50% sp cost or even a +100% cost.

Changing the bonuses to stats to profane or something wouldn't be bad, either, but might make the spell overpowered.

[Crystalizer]

well i would really like changes about that spell, but i think we won't anyway obtain the ability to cast while we have this buff. but what i would like for this spells is a bab buff as it currently functions, if divine builds have divine power spell it doesnt seem unrealistic to allow it to arcanes. giving +6 con/str is very secondary since with hig-end gears you wont drop your healing amp + 6 str bracers or your con6 of greater false life belt. allowing casting while tensered is important too, or offer some specific boost like +100% repairing on pots only, and/or some magic pots of repair as a limited amount like fire arrows when you cast the spell.

[LordRavnos]

I am going to have to say no, I have seen more than 1 scroll of this and can easily imagine people stock piling a massive amount after this change to boost there UMD able melee'r and getting much more use then the wizard out of it.

[Phidius]

I'm all for changing Tenser's to be a spell that I might want to inscribe for a reason other than I don't want to see it as a choice every time I level up.

As much as I like the idea of changing the bonuses to stack, I still wouldn't use the spell on my wizards/sorcs for the same reason I don't use Madstone Boots.

Increasing the cost of spells sounds pretty good, but then I'd only use the spell when I'm not really threatened by the mobs and can simply heal from scrolls. Actually, if the cost of spells were increased as per Combat Expertise, the only toon I have who would use it is Stryde, as he can self-heal from aura and burst, and just UMD the scrolls. That would be great - my wizards would use the divine spell, and my cleric would use the arcane spell

How about making meta-magics inoperative while Tenser's is running instead of turning off all spell casting? This would keep UMD melee from "exploiting" the spell, while retaining a bit of the original flavor. Oh, and get rid of the "Potion of Bull's Strength" as a regent, too - not going to stock up on those.

[Bogenbroom]

My feeling on it is that the existing bonuses to STR and CON should be replaced with a bonus equal to you INT/CHR bonus OR +4 whichever is greater when cast, but just +4 when cast from scroll. I think that would buff up the numbers nicely and make the caster who currently just sits around waiting to buff in raids at least able to *do* something, while still not making it over powered...

Additionally, it could become one of those spells that specialty builds make a great deal of use of.

[donfilibuster]

/not signed
what says a spell, a clicky of that spell and an item with the same bonus should not be used for the same thing?
it's the same dilemma for a potency vs. combustion vs. inferno clicky vs. inferno pot, it's just options you have available

On a wizard there's no room for an str item, there's other things you can use for rings/belt/wrist/etc.
Maybe at the level you take tenser you can still afford to use a str item, but ideally you could save it and use other stuff or greensteel.
At lower level you can do well with bull str alone, and divine power clickies with 5 charges begin at lv 11.

Naturally there's better spells to prepare on lv VI slots, ddo keep the spell list small by pretty much not including redundant spells from PnP, but you still have an option to use it from a clicky or let a stat item take space in your gear slots.

[Thuriaz]

The only thing Tensers needs is the ability to dismiss it like a barb does their rage, you'd have wizards using it a LOT more often then in combination with palemaster, death aura, and perhaps a body feeder weapon - perhaps not since the forms offer some interesting touch based damage bonuses.

Honestly, if it could be dismissed it'd be a fine, valuable spell for Fighter/Wizards, Pale Masters, and possibly a few archmage builds that grant spell likes with defensive bonuses (possibly not).

[voodoogroves]

Sadly, Tenser's is as useful in DDO as it is in PNP.

In PNP the real gishes are going for a +15 or higher BAB natively or are finagling things to get Divine Power as something they can cast. Tensers is ignored ... not becuase the ability bonuses don't stack (because neither do Divine Power's) but because it locks out spellcasting. Boo.

[Musouka]

Now that it is mentioned, Tenser's Transformation does need improvement.

We should start making a pot of bull's cost a lot more.

[Templarion]

Something should be done with Tenser.

I love it how it disables spell casting. I think that's the whole idea of "transformation".

Now we just need to find a way to make it more useful. Turn a wizard into a combat monster for a short while. How about exhaustion after Tenser ends? Or 1 sp for each seconds it is active? Or both? And increase the stat bonuses and/or stacking. Something. Anything.

No for useless spells!

[frznvimes]

We should start making it cost a pot of bull's.

doesn't it already?

[Musouka]

doesn't it already?

Probably... I don't ever use it. It's very useless in DDO, but it does have an impact in pen and paper. As a 14 STR can actually hit some mobs.

[Entelech]

The only use for Tenser's Transformation is to cast it on enemy spellcasters.

Oh...wait...

[GeneralDiomedes]

The only use for Tenser's Transformation is to cast it on enemy spellcasters.

Oh...wait...

Chaos Balls would disagree ..

[bigolbear]

simply put tensers transformation should be made to have the same or similar results to divine power - non stacking bonuses but not inhibitng casting.

Tensers was only used in pen and paper as the final spell in combination with other spells that increase combat potential -eg polymorph.

the nature of ddo spell casting being more long/short duration buff oriented than pen and paper means that spells of that nature need to be modified to take into consideration the rolling encounters mechanism that occurs in ddo.

A typical encounter in pen and paper starts with the party unbuffed, wheras a typical encounter in ddo starts with the party buffed fully inculding short duration buffs that are still on timer from the previous encounter.

currently any arcane mele build will use divine power clickes, allow us to drop the clickies and use a spell. it wont break anything, it will simply free up some backpack space. we already have the ability to achieve full bab while maintaining casting ability and as the other bonuses dont stack they are mostly irrelevant.

The mele orientated buffs available to casters in ddo are significantly more powerful than they were in pen and paper due to the points above. Turbine have recognised this fact over the years by lowering their effectiveness (the cap on divine favour) and by not implementing some core spells such as righteous might, polymorph, body of war etc while simultenously increasing the effectiveness of the mele classes. It is easily possible to make a caster (divine or arcane) that fights beter than a mele class in pen and paper, however said caster will require 2 or 3 rounds of buffing - as this delay has been removed in ddo it is necessary to limit the effectiveness of caster buffs and raise the effectiveness of the warrior classes. Im not saying they have the balance right at the moment but an increase to the power of mele oriented buffs would cause a powershift and end up in monsters having even more hit points.

My feeling is that tensers should simply mimic divine power in all aspects, this cannot break anything as any mele focused arcane will already be using divine power clickies. Where as making the bonuses stack runs the risk of disrupting the balance.