Attack bonus question

[Iwinbyrollup]

My paladin hit 20 a few weeks ago and I'm currently planning out my TR so I can tailor my quest-running towards finding gear for the TR. I'm currently still even stuck on the question of THF versus TWF--while I have some nice weapons, this character hasn't even gotten a Greensteel weapon yet (yes, that's on the list of things to get before TRing--I was waiting because of the possibility of switching weapon types on a TR).

I just recently worked through some possible builds, and the biggest question for me ultimately comes down to attack bonus. Because even with all the additional points put into dexterity, my TWF build only loses one strength mod and one skill point per level over my THF build. So the big difference for me is that if I go TWF, my paladin will lose 5 to her attack rolls--1 off the strength mod, and 4 due to dual-wielding khopeshes without OTWF.

So the question...how big of a deal is this going to be? If I go TWF am I going to find myself crippled by an inability to hit enemies in hard/elite/epic endgame content? I know TWF is generally better damage than THF for paladins but if I have difficulty hitting then that's going to be moot.

Although it occurs to me that given the current endgame content, I might be okay with KotC evil outsider bonuses.

Anyway, is attack bonus an issue for TWF? If so, how much of one?

[Kalmah36]

The devils playground is hardly endgame content anymore. Endgame is now epics. There are a few splices of evil outsiders here and there, but nothing to harp about. That attack bonus loss will KILL you in epics. You need to go human and get oversized. End of story imo.

[FrozenNova]

You may often find yourself driven to improved destruction in epics for oranges and may need to use destruction guard on trash.
That in itself is not too uncommon, however - and the paladin TWF benefits are pretty significant. I'd probably opt for TWF personally.
Pre-epic, the to-hit drop will barely hurt in the slightest, and the damage bonus far, far outstrips it.

[eonfreon]

My paladin hit 20 a few weeks ago and I'm currently planning out my TR so I can tailor my quest-running towards finding gear for the TR. I'm currently still even stuck on the question of THF versus TWF--while I have some nice weapons, this character hasn't even gotten a Greensteel weapon yet (yes, that's on the list of things to get before TRing--I was waiting because of the possibility of switching weapon types on a TR).

I just recently worked through some possible builds, and the biggest question for me ultimately comes down to attack bonus. Because even with all the additional points put into dexterity, my TWF build only loses one strength mod and one skill point per level over my THF build. So the big difference for me is that if I go TWF, my paladin will lose 5 to her attack rolls--1 off the strength mod, and 4 due to dual-wielding khopeshes without OTWF.

So the question...how big of a deal is this going to be? If I go TWF am I going to find myself crippled by an inability to hit enemies in hard/elite/epic endgame content? I know TWF is generally better damage than THF for paladins but if I have difficulty hitting then that's going to be moot.

Although it occurs to me that given the current endgame content, I might be okay with KotC evil outsider bonuses.

Anyway, is attack bonus an issue for TWF? If so, how much of one?

Pre-Epic you'll be okay. Playing Epics you'll want to either pick up OTWF or use a light offhand weapon. Even a decent light hand weapon (or Holy Sword) will generally give you more dps then THF for a Paladin. Or make sure you use a Destruction/Improved Destruction weapon then switch to dual Khopeshes.

To give you an idea I have a base 30 Str and I drink Rage pots constantly so I am a 32 Str. I have OTWF. I still constantly switch to a Destruction and Improved Destruction weapon (from what I hear they stack in Epics. Heck I usually start out with Rahl's Might (it's an Improved Destruction Staff) to get no penalty whatsoever, then switch to Khopesh (or Rockspitter which is a Destruction weapon and hope that it's true that it stacks).

[hermespan]

My paladin hit 20 a few weeks ago and I'm currently planning out my TR so I can tailor my quest-running towards finding gear for the TR. I'm currently still even stuck on the question of THF versus TWF--while I have some nice weapons, this character hasn't even gotten a Greensteel weapon yet (yes, that's on the list of things to get before TRing--I was waiting because of the possibility of switching weapon types on a TR).

I just recently worked through some possible builds, and the biggest question for me ultimately comes down to attack bonus. Because even with all the additional points put into dexterity, my TWF build only loses one strength mod and one skill point per level over my THF build. So the big difference for me is that if I go TWF, my paladin will lose 5 to her attack rolls--1 off the strength mod, and 4 due to dual-wielding khopeshes without OTWF.

So the question...how big of a deal is this going to be? If I go TWF am I going to find myself crippled by an inability to hit enemies in hard/elite/epic endgame content? I know TWF is generally better damage than THF for paladins but if I have difficulty hitting then that's going to be moot.

Although it occurs to me that given the current endgame content, I might be okay with KotC evil outsider bonuses.

Anyway, is attack bonus an issue for TWF? If so, how much of one?

If your to-hit is marginal, this means you need to turn off power attack to hit the target. That's the big difference. However if your to-hit is high enough due to feat selection, strength and enhancements, _despite_ this penalty, it really doesn't matter.

If you are only missing on 1's your to-hit is high enough either way.

I have a TWF exploiter str build. His to-hit is high enough that he can swing at raid bosses with PA running and only miss on a 1 with greensteel with the buff package I have access to. However, against some (not all) red names with higher AC, he needs to turn off power attack to hit them.

So there's a lot of variables in the equation. You have ship str buff +2? You have +5 weapons?

My advice is to procure some +5 trash weapons when you hit 20, and go into raids and epics, and see how much you miss with and without power attack running. If you can mostly hit well with power attack running, your to-hit is high enough given the variables you are working with.

Not everyone has a level 60 guild and is set up with the best gear in the game, so +2 ship buffs may not be an option for you and your to-hit may not be high enough given your situation, gear etc.

What build will work for you is very very situational. It depends on how much time you have to raid and get the best gear and what buffs you have access to on a reliable basis. Without knowing all the variables it's impossible to tell you how high your to-hit needs to be.

Luckily the plain jane +5 weapon test simplifies things for you. If you miss a lot without PA running when using +5 weapons, there's an issue because you'll miss with greensteel too.

You can get gear like the Tumbleweed ring and the tempest set that boosts your to-hit. It all depends on how far you plan to go with your equipment.

You can make any build have a high enough to-hit, given enough time grinding gear, and given a decent build.

Also remember that THF gives you more build points to play with, as well as being half the cost with regard to building weapons and getting raid weapons, then making them epic.

I started doing shroud 18 months ago. I have 3 characters I run through there 2x a week each. One more large scale, and 2 large bones from now, I'll finally be done my main's 6th weapon, a lit II. I also have earth grab picks, Min II khopeshes and this final set of Lit II khopeshes.

If I was THF, I'd have been TR'd 9 months ago. Outfitting a TWF with Greensteel takes double the amount of raiding to get the weapons done.

The payoff is big dps.

So make sure you factor that into your decision as well. The dps difference between THF and TWF is significant. But at the same time, the level 13 horc thf fighter I'm bringing up will never need to turn off power attack. His standing strength with ship buffs is 45. Throw in GH and rage, and I have the feeling he'll have better overall dps than my TWF main in epic.That's just a feeling tho. I haven't run the numbers.

[HGM-Chi]

I guess this is as good a place to ask this as any... I dropped Extend Spell on my TWF drow for Oversized TWF:

1: Toughness
3: Two-Weapon Fighting
6: Oversized TWF (in place of Extend Spell)
9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
12: Improved critical: Piercing weapons
15: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
18: Power Attack

I have to cast zeal and divine favor more often, but I've never had a problem with running out of spell points or anything. Is this not a viable option? Am I missing something about Extend Spell that makes it critical to a pally?

[shadow_419]

Extend spell is a convenience. I liked having it on my pally since it keeps me from having to recast Divine Favor and Zeal as often or mid boss battle, but it's not a requirement.

[Irongutz2000]

[QUOTE=HGM-Chi;3532074]I guess this is as good a place to ask this as any... I dropped Extend Spell on my TWF drow for Oversized TWF:

1: Toughness
3: Two-Weapon Fighting
6: Oversized TWF (in place of Extend Spell)
9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
12: Improved critical: Piercing weapons
15: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
18: Power Attack

I have to cast zeal and divine favor more often, but I've never had a problem with running out of spell points or anything. Is this not a viable option? Am I missing something about Extend Spell that makes it critical to a pally?[/QUOTE




Extend is more of a lazy thing than anything lol, The only thing that u really benifit from is being able to use madstone an still have zeal an DF running. Thats why I love it more than anything