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  1. #1
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    Default archer/trapmonkey

    My GF has decided to join the fun and requested that I find a build for her. After some discussion, we determined that it will be an archer with trapmonkey skills. I searched the forums and could find only the old Ironbow build which seems outdated.

    So, I've had to dauble in creating a build. Since this is my first build, I have come to the forums for criticism and helpful suggestions. (Please note: I've explained that ranged combat delivers less DPS than melee, but she wants to be an archer. So I've tried to make the best archer possible)

    Ranger18/Rogue2

    STATS: (level up points to go into STR or CON, full set of +2 tomes to be used at lvl7)

    STR: 15
    DEX: 10
    CON:15
    INT: 11
    WIS:10
    CHA:10

    SKILLS:

    Search, Spot and Disable Device to be kept maxed.
    Remaining 2 points/lvl to go to either Open Locks or Hide and Move Silently.
    Additional points (from creation or tome use or rogue level) to go into either Open Locks or Hide and Move Silently, if available, or whatever.

    FEATS:

    Toughness
    Point Blank Shot
    Weapon Focus, Ranged
    Improved Critical, Ranged
    Mental Toughness
    Improved Mental Toughness
    Power Attack
    Favored Enemy: Undead, Giant, Construct, Evil Outsider, Elemental

    ENHANCEMENTS:

    Arcane Archer I
    Conjure +2,3,4,5 arrows
    DevotionII
    Energy of the Wild III
    Ranger Dexterity II
    Favored Attack I
    Favored Damage II
    Imbue Force/Acid/ Explosive/ Terror/ Force Burst/ Slaying arrows
    Ranger Skill Boost III
    Sprint Boost I
    Extra Action Boost I

    Rogue Damage Boost I
    Rogue Haste Boost I
    Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

    Aereanal Elf Damage I
    Aereanal Elf Attack I
    Elf Dexterity II
    Elven Enchantment Resistance I
    Racial Toughness II
    Ranged Attack II
    Ranged Damage II


    I'm pretty new to the game and this is my first build, so I'm pretty sure there is room for improvement. Please let me know what you think.
    Last edited by Eckenwiler; 01-13-2011 at 03:26 PM.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    OK, it looks like you're working from a 28-pt build, so I'm guessing your GF's account is F2P with nothing unlocked, though you do mention using a +2 Supreme tome. It's fairly easy to adapt a Tempest trapmonkey build like mine to AA instead of Tempest; just take the AA pre-reqs instead of the Tempest ones. For skills I would say the priorities are UMD, Search, & Disable.

    If she might be interested in something more heavily rogue, I recently posted the Triple A: rogue 13 / ranger 6 / ftr 1. It's a 32-pt build, but can be made with 28 pts instead.

  3. #3
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    Yes, it's a 28 pt build and she's F2P.

    It's not a supreme tome, it's a SET of +2 tomes, that I have banked for her character.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  4. #4
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    Since she's all new to the game, I'd recommend Spot if she wants to do traps.

  5. #5
    Community Member GuntherBovine's Avatar
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    I don't have a lot of experience with builds, but here is my 2 cents:
    1. Have your stats be even numbers. Having an Int of 11 instead of 10 does you no good
    2. You want a high Dex for an archer
    3. It is really important to know what your build is as well
    4. It is important to know what play style your GF wants to play
    5. The second Rogue level buys you very little - you are better off with 19/1

    I can see many possible play styles:
    * You are a melee fighter who charges to the front of the combat. Your GF hangs in the back and picks off casters and ranged with her bow. When the battle is over, she wipes out a wand to heal you. She also deals with the traps that come up
    * You are a buff/CC arcane or bard who buffs up your GF and then freezes everyone in place for your GF to kill
    * You are a arcane blaster. For small groups, you and your GF blast away. With larger groups, your GF sneaks down, kills the first one or two to pull aggro, and then you start throwing the damage spells

    I would suggest using the AA Archer build from the Revisiting Paths thread as a starting point.

  6. #6
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoreIdiotThanSavant View Post
    Since she's all new to the game, I'd recommend Spot if she wants to do traps.
    Yes, Spot will be important, since we don't want to find the traps by running into them. The build keeps it maxed. Thanks.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  7. #7
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuntherBovine View Post
    I don't have a lot of experience with builds, but here is my 2 cents:
    1. Have your stats be even numbers. Having an Int of 11 instead of 10 does you no good
    2. You want a high Dex for an archer
    3. It is really important to know what your build is as well
    4. It is important to know what play style your GF wants to play
    5. The second Rogue level buys you very little - you are better off with 19/1
    1. you are right about that. Maybe I should drop a point from Cha to put into Int. But I hate having any score lower than 10 because of the penalties....
    2.I don't know why a high Dex is important for an archer. Wouldn't a high Str be just as good? Please explain.
    3. I'm making an Axesinger to accompany her.
    4. She likes to sit in back and pewpew. She doesn't like the chaos of melee or the pressure of healing.
    5. Yes, the second rogue level buys very little. It looks like a mistake. Unbongwah's AA/trapmonkey goes with a level of fighter, I suppose for the extra feat, which seems like a better idea.
    Last edited by Eckenwiler; 01-10-2011 at 05:58 PM.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  8. #8
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuntherBovine View Post
    I can see many possible play styles:
    * You are a melee fighter who charges to the front of the combat. Your GF hangs in the back and picks off casters and ranged with her bow. When the battle is over, she wipes out a wand to heal you. She also deals with the traps that come up
    * You are a buff/CC arcane or bard who buffs up your GF and then freezes everyone in place for your GF to kill
    * You are a arcane blaster. For small groups, you and your GF blast away. With larger groups, your GF sneaks down, kills the first one or two to pull aggro, and then you start throwing the damage spells
    The playstyle is she goes in and scouts out the enemy so we know what we're facing. Then we draw back, buff and she draws them to us, often killing a few as they come. Any that get close, get to meet my axe. When they get close, she draws her blades and joins me, or steps back and shoots from close range, or selects another target a bit further away, depends on the situation.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  9. #9
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuntherBovine View Post
    I would suggest using the AA Archer build from the Revisiting Paths thread as a starting point.
    Yes, that was a good starting point, there is alot of good stuff in there. I kept most of the feats and enhancements that he uses, and the starting stats are pretty close too.

    Thanks for the advice Guntherbovine. Keep it coming.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  10. #10
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    . It's fairly easy to adapt a Tempest trapmonkey build like mine to AA instead of Tempest; just take the AA pre-reqs
    I checked out your build, among many others, when I was researching this one. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention. It looked like it would actually need alot of adapting. The feats, enhancements and stats are geared to a melee character, while this build needs to be geared to a ranged character. It looks like it would need more changes than just changing the prereqs. When those changes are done, wouldn't it look alot like this build?

    While looking it over again, I noticed that it had a fighter level, instead of 2 rogue levels, which looks like a good idea.

    It's a human, which is probably best for melee, but wouldn't an elf be better for ranged?

    I don't know how you get all the skill points in that build, and think maybe I've figured the skill points wrong in mine. It looks like you are getting 8 skill points/level: search(1)+spot(1)+disable(2)+Open Locks(2)+UMD(2)=8. But my math says you should be getting 7: 6 per ranger level +int bonus (12 int=+1). What am I missing?
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  11. #11
    Community Member Brennie's Avatar
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    Quite a few things here. First to answer this question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eckenwiler View Post
    I don't know how you get all the skill points in that build, and think maybe I've figured the skill points wrong in mine. It looks like you are getting 8 skill points/level: search(1)+spot(1)+disable(2)+Open Locks(2)+UMD(2)=8. But my math says you should be getting 7: 6 per ranger level +int bonus (12 int=+1). What am I missing?
    Humans get an extra skillpoint per level (x4 at level 1), exactly as if they had 2 more int.

    Secondly, Dex is your to-hit for ranged weapons. With 10 dex you will be hitting a whole lot of nothing, unless you face the dreaded Broad Side of a Barn. Dex also affects your reflex save, which is very important on an evasion character. I'd also note that you cannot qualify for many important ranged feats with such a low dex, but fortunatly rangers get all the important ranged feats for free, regardless of their dex!

    I know you don't like negatives, but you really need to weigh the importance of each stat to your overall build. Charisma, for example, gives you +1 umd and thats about it. Sure, +1 umd is nice, but is it as nice as +1 to hit and +1 to reflex saves? 10 wisdom is a good starting place for any ranger, but only if you can spare it. 8 wisdom is entirely doable, as long as you are willing to keep your girlfriend supplied with +wisdom items appropriate to her level (You'll be low on sp and not able to cast spells for a littl ebtit in the low levels, but yuo will catch up with a +6 wis item before you can cast level 4 spells, so in teh end it evens out).

    Rogue2 gives you all of nothing. You get a couple more skillpoints and your rogue skills aren't crossclass for one whole level. You don't gain any more sneak attack damage, your Dex1 enhancement doesn't stack with the ranger dex 1, Rangers get evasion at level 9 and it doesn't stack, etc etc, so on and so forth. If you want 18 ranger (19 doesn't offer you much, so 18 is a good stopping point) for your pewpew/AA and 1 rogue for your rogue skills + situational sneak attack, that leaves you with 1 extra level to play around with. Fighter nets you an extra feat, barbarian gives you a rage and some faster movement (and doesn't force you to tank your skillpoints for a level, like fighter would), monk gives you a feat and some stances and some ac and inner zen. Fighter is the most popular option.

    Also, for peak ranged efficiency, consider a pure 20 Ranger. Its a little bit more boring, and obviously can't handle traps and stuff quite as well, but is much easier to do stats (No need for int or charisma, so an elf can go something like 16/18/12/8/10/8, level up points in strength and 5 dex enhancements puts you nice and level for good to hit and good damage), faster access to Ranged/AA abilities (which is a small consideration, but the difference between slayer arrow at 18 and slayer arrow at 20 is pretty huge, as is Improved Precise shot at 11 instead of 13), and of course the ranger capstone.

    Lastly, not to be Mr Negative, but letting your GF (who is new to the game) scout ahead will be an interesting/slow playstyle full of fun and discovery sometimes (Which is awesome), and a horrible, painful, death-filled experience most of the time (not so awesome). The reason for this comes from a) Triggered ambushes, b) un-spottable traps (Such as doors slamming shut behind you, floors falling out from underneath you, occassional traps with spot check ridiculously high for some unknown reason), c) enemies who auto-detect you, hidden or not (Spiders and oozes come to mind), and d) anything and everything that could pop her out of stealth at inconvenient moments, such as having to hit a door handle, getting struck by an AoE, accidently leaning on the left mouse button, etc. In all of these situations, your GF will be all alone ahead of the party while big bad things try to eat her. Also note, you will not find many PUGs willing to let someone scout ahead (however, if you plan to duo or guild run, that may be a non-issue).

    On to the fun stuff! Since you seem to be loaded, judging from your stack of tomes, You may want to purchase in advance some fun items for the GF. Silver Bow, for DPS from 6 on, +1 Paralyzing Longbow or Shortbow (min level 10) right before she qualifies for improved precise shot (11-12 is where my AA ranger started to feel his DPS contribution was diminishing, but being able to keep a line of 2-5 enemies locked up in paralysis from level 10 onward kept me pretty satified in my ability to be a good group contributer. I'm also convinced that paralyzing enemies increases ranged DPS signifcantly, since you are guarenteed to continue shooting several enemies at the same time, instead of them running off and not being lined up anymore). Smiting is nice, Disrupting is great, Metalline will be handy (Metalline of PG will be super handy, if you can find one), and a DPS option for uncrittable enemies (Shocking Burst of PG works fine, or Holyburst since uncrittables are often undead). And remember that the + on bows is largely inconsequential to an AA. Generally, the lower the + the better

    Good luck, hope this short dissertation helped!

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckenwiler View Post
    But I hate having any score lower than 10 because of the penalties....
    -1 is negligible in the long run. Starting WIS 8 makes casting spells a bit more of a hassle at low lvls until you find sufficient +WIS items (or can stay buffed w/Owl's WIS), but in the long run it's not a problem, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckenwiler View Post
    It's a human, which is probably best for melee, but wouldn't an elf be better for ranged?
    Elf would have higher DEX & longbow enhs for extra ranged DPS; human would have extra feat & skill pts, higher CON & HPs, and other human goodies (Versatility, Imp Recovery, etc.).
    But my math says you should be getting 7: 6 per ranger level +int bonus (12 int=+1). What am I missing?
    Humans get 1 extra skill pt per lvl (4 at 1st lvl); it's one of the reasons why I went with human in my first build.

    If your GF's wedded to the idea of elf, any chance you could unlock 32-pt builds for her first? If so, you could go with a build like this:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
    (1 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 18 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 292
    Spell Points: 330 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    23
    Dexterity            17                    24
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    11
    Bluff                -1                     0
    Concentration         2                     3
    Diplomacy            -1                     0
    Disable Device        5                    25
    Haggle                3                     4
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                  3                     7
    Intimidate           -1                     0
    Jump                  7                    10
    Listen               -1                     2
    Move Silently         3                     7
    Open Lock             7                    25
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                1                     2
    Search                5                    27
    Spot                  3                    25
    Swim                  3                     6
    Tumble                7                    11
    Use Magic Device      3                    23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack II
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    If not, you can start CON 12. It still works out, I just don't like starting with less than CON 14 on any build, but especially one which doesn't get Toughness until lvl 12 and is made up mostly of low-HP classes.

    EDIT: you could also take the ftr splash a lot sooner; use it to meet one of your AA pre-reqs (PBS or WF Ranged) and take Toughness at lvl 3. This would boost HPs sooner, but you'd have to delay one of the Imp Crit feats (probably Slash) to lvl 12.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 01-10-2011 at 07:29 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Human versatility: damage coupled with rogue haste boost and manyshot is an awesome combination.

    You aren't restricted to elf being a ranger AA so it is important to look at other options (imo).

    Halfling, human and elf are all good choices on a f2p account. Halfling has some excellent extra damage from the guile enhancements. Human has the extra versatility and skill points. Elf has the weapon enhancements.

    Overall, I would probably suggest human as the extra skill points are useful to a ranger trapmonkey style character.

    I leveled up a tempest version with 1 rogue and 1 fighter level and had an excellent time and never struggled with any traps. 1 rogue, 1 monk is a superior option if you can unlock it. I followed the paths revisited tempest build but put intelligence up to 14, human, improved critical: ranged as spare feat.

    It is important to aim to have balanced strength and dexterity scores at level 20 to keep to-hit and damage high. 10 point investments into strength and dexterity is a good option though possibly you want to start with a 6 point investment into constitution and intelligence to start (never less than 6 point investment into constitution, I wouldn't go higher though on a 28 point build). This leaves 16 points to split between strength and dexterity, 10 into strength and 6 into dexterity is probably fine.

    A tempest ranger still has very strong ranged abilities.

    Skills: max UMD, search, disable. High: move silently, spot, balance. Medium: hide, open lock. Low: tumble (1) Optional skills: listen ...

  14. #14
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    @ Unbongwah:

    Thanks for the thoughtful reply, especially the work you put into that build. Your advice is helpful and appreciated.

    With the fighter level, you've added the Feat "Improved Critical, slashing". This seems like the way to go: Fighter instead of a second level of rogue and that's the feat to add. You've also replaced the Feat "Improved Mental Toughness " with "Extend Spell": this seems like it will be a good idea, if the spell points are used for buffing. Alternatively, if the spell points are used primarily to imbue and conjure arrows, then "Improved Mental Toughness" will be the way to go. This decision can be put off until we see how My GF plays this build. Would you agree?

    I like the allocation of skill points and the resulting skill levels. Unfortunately, I won't be unlocking 32 point builds soon. (I like the idea of it being a favor reward and do not want to purchase it in the store) I also don't like the idea of a starting Con at 12. This will be a first character and the more HP the better. So It'll have to be a 28 point build and the Con will start at 14, preferably. So, I could drop Int to 10, Str to 15 and Dex to 16. I'd lose 1 skill point every level. Essentially this would mean I would lose 20 skill points and would probably have to give up UMD. (ouch) Alternatively, I could drop the Str to 15 and the Dex to 14 or Dex to 16 and Str to 14 (if I've done my math right) and keep Int at 12. Have I figured this correctly, and what would you recommend?

    Another option would be to go Human. I could then drop the Int to 10 and still keep the skill points like you have them in your build. This would also give me an extra feat at first level, which I could use for Toughness. I'd have to give up the elven enhancements to bow attack and damage.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  15. #15
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    @ wax_on_wax_off:

    Thanks for the advice, especially about the stat points.

    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Human versatility: damage coupled with rogue haste boost and manyshot is an awesome combination.

    You aren't restricted to elf being a ranger AA so it is important to look at other options (imo).
    Yes, I need to look closer at going human. This might be better than elf, as counter-intuitive as that is. Thanks fo

    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    A tempest ranger still has very strong ranged abilities.
    This is another option, but I'd rather make the ranged abilities as strong as possible, instead of "very strong". I believe this will suit my GF better.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  16. #16
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brennie View Post
    Good luck, hope this short dissertation helped!
    Dissertation or not, short or not, that was extremely helpful. Thanks. Please prepare yourself for my short dissertation in reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennie View Post
    Secondly, Dex is your to-hit for ranged weapons...
    My main is a melee, and I assumed that the Str bonus would also be to-hit for ranged. D'OH! (maybe all the high dex on the builds I looked at should have tipped me off...) But I checked the DDOwiki and it backed you up. Dex is to-hit for ranged. Looks like I'll have to raise the dex on this build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennie View Post
    I know you don't like negatives, but you really need to weigh the importance of each stat to your overall build.
    Yes, since I need to raise the Dex, then Cha and Wis will have to be dumped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennie View Post
    Rogue2 gives you all of nothing.
    Yes, that rogue level should be swapped out for something more useful. Monk is out, since this character is F2P, but I'll look into Barbarian. thanks for the good suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennie View Post
    Also, for peak ranged efficiency, consider a pure 20 Ranger.
    We will need one of us to be able to trapmonkey. Since she doesn't want to heal, that makes her the trapmonkey. So pure 20 Ranger is out of the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennie View Post
    Lastly, not to be Mr Negative, but letting your GF (who is new to the game) scout ahead will be an interesting/slow playstyle full of fun and discovery sometimes (Which is awesome), and a horrible, painful, death-filled experience most of the time (not so awesome).
    She's pretty good at handling the unexpected and can pretty much take care of herself. She scouts with blades equipped so if she needs to fight quick she's ready. And she's a Ranger: she can lay down some TWF pain when needed. She knows to bring them to me because I'll be coming her way quick. When we come to a door, I move forward to open it and she drops back and covers it with her bow. (I remember this one time...) And if she does die from something unexpected, well, that's part of the fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennie View Post
    Also note, you will not find many PUGs willing to let someone scout ahead
    Yea, the few times we've PUGged, it was better for her to equip blades and TWF. Not much strategy there. Mainly we duo, since we're still in the smell-the-roses stage and aren't in any hurry. We also belong to a great guild so I don't think grouping with them will be any problem, when that times comes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennie View Post
    Since you seem to be loaded
    LOL. Thanks. I've been broke for 9 levels until Mabar and Risia where I farmed motes to fortune. Admittedly a small fortune, but still. Seeing someone refer to me as loaded made me cheer. Mostly, I traded motes for +2 tomes and managed to get a complete set for my main, her character and my accompanying Axesinger!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennie View Post
    +1 Paralyzing Longbow or Shortbow...Smiting is nice, Disrupting is great, Metalline will be handy (Metalline of PG will be super handy, if you can find one), and a DPS option for uncrittable enemies (Shocking Burst of PG works fine, or Holyburst since uncrittables are often undead). And remember that the + on bows is largely inconsequential to an AA. Generally, the lower the + the better
    This is extremely helpful and something I would not have thought of on my own, since I have no archer experience. THANKS!
    Last edited by Eckenwiler; 01-11-2011 at 01:49 PM.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  17. #17
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    If she's stuck with a 28-pt build, you have a few options as far as base stats go that I can see (presuming elf & CON 14): 15 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 8 / 8 (-1 STR -1 DEX); 16 / 17 / 14 / 8 / 8 / 8 (dump INT, just enough skill pts for Search, Disable, UMD); 15 / 17 / 14 / 10 / 8 / 8 (drop pts from Open Lock); or 16 / 16 / 14 / 10 / 8 / 8.

    If she went human, I would start base stats 16 / 15 / 14 / 12 / 8 / 8; she'd also get extra skill pts to boost Open Lock higher; or start 16 / 14 / 14 / 14 / 8 / 8 if she wanted to add stealth. Or go dwarf: 16 / 15 / 16 / 12 / 8 / 8; same skills as elf, more HPs, but lower DEX.

  18. #18
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    You aren't restricted to elf being a ranger AA so it is important to look at other options (imo).

    Halfling, human and elf are all good choices on a f2p account. Halfling has some excellent extra damage from the guile enhancements. Human has the extra versatility and skill points. Elf has the weapon enhancements.

    Overall, I would probably suggest human as the extra skill points are useful to a ranger trapmonkey style character.

    Ok, I looked more closely at these options.

    The reason to go Elf is the +2 to ranged attack and damage gained from weapon enhancements.

    Halfling Guile and Cunning are situational. With our playstyle they won't get much use. The Elf Ranged Attack and Damage Enhancements are much better suited to us. And probably to every archer build, since the Halfling enhancements apply only to Sneak Attacks and Flanking attacks. In my experience, most ranged attacks aren't in Sneak Attack range and usually are not from behind.

    Human was a much closer call. Overall, I think it would make a stronger build. The Human Versatility grants +5 to attack or damage, whichever best suits at the moment, in addition to other uses. It also only costs 7 AP, while the Ranged AttackII and Ranged DamageII cost 12 altogether. That's 5 extra AP which, no doubt, could be put to good use. Human also grants +1 Skill Point every level, so Int could be lowered by 2 without changing the number of Skill Points granted every level. Those 2 points could be put into Str for +1 damage or just keep the Skill Points and get some UMD. And then there's the extra feat....

    However, this build is for a first-timer, who has a strong negative attitude to excessive hotbars and "little squares" and consequently to activated abilities. So, probably, for this player, Elf is a better option since the Enhancement bonus to attack and damage is always there, as opposed to Human where you have to find and click the correct square or remember which button it is hotkeyed to.

    Thanks for the suggestion wax_on_wax_off.
    Last edited by Eckenwiler; 01-12-2011 at 01:40 PM.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

  19. #19
    Community Member GuntherBovine's Avatar
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    First off, all of the feedback you are giving it makes it a lot easier to be helpful. Keep it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eckenwiler View Post
    I'm making an Axesinger to accompany her
    Can you share your build? When you say "Axesinger", I think of this (which I played to level 7) and it has a lot of redundancies with your GF's build. I would think that a WF melee wizard would be a better choice. If you stick with the bard, you should be the one with the high UMD. It's nice for each toon to have a high UMD for equipping race-specific items, but UMD pays off as long as someone in the party has a high UMD for using items for other classes such as clerical wands that give a party buff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eckenwiler View Post
    The playstyle is she goes in and scouts out the enemy so we know what we're facing. Then we draw back, buff and she draws them to us, often killing a few as they come. Any that get close, get to meet my axe. When they get close, she draws her blades and joins me, or steps back and shoots from close range, or selects another target a bit further away, depends on the situation.
    Play whatever you enjoy, but be aware that this will slow your questing to a crawl. One of my early toons was a Ranger and I sneaked everywhere. When I played other toons, I realized how slowly I was going with very little benefit.

    One possibility I recommend is to always have a summons with you. The two of you would move forward together and when you came to a mob, your GF would stop moving and starting shooting while you and the summons continue on to the mob. It would be pretty rare for something to get past you and the summons.

  20. #20
    Community Member Eckenwiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuntherBovine View Post
    Can you share your build? When you say "Axesinger", I think of this
    That's the one. I can't say I notice any redundancies. It focuses on melee and bard songs. This build focuses on ranged and trap skills. They both do heals but really just enough for themself. They both buff, but different buffs. What am I missing?

    (which I played to level 7)

    Quote Originally Posted by GuntherBovine View Post
    you should be the one with the high UMD.
    Yes. You'll notice this build does not put any points to UMD. With the points necessary for Hide, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Disable Device and Open Locks there is just no room for UMD. Heck, we're already having to choose, every level, between better sneaking and better lock picking. I know, poor UMD is often percieved as a noob move, but this is a build for a beginner. Not just to DDO, or MMO's, but to PC games in general. Using alot of "little squares" or hotkeys is contraindicated. So if it had UMD, it probably wouldn't be used. Maybe on her next character.


    Quote Originally Posted by GuntherBovine View Post
    Play whatever you enjoy, but be aware that this will slow your questing to a crawl. One possibility I recommend is to always have a summons with you.
    Yes. We are slow. S-L-O-W slow. But since we are still in the smell-the-roses stage this suits us fine. We ran some quests with summons (shrieking defender, snow elemental, umbral shadow) and it worked pretty much like you describe. A nice change of pace, but not what we want for a steady diet.
    Kutath: 6rogue/2ranger .
    roll models: The Stainless Steel Rat, Fafhyrd the Grey Mouser, Garrett
    Savoring the first run, for it will never happen again.

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