Is light > dark for overall DPS?

[tgu]

With the ToD nerf, has light actually become better? I know light is often times considered the "support" title. I also understand ninjaspy can be important.

However, can the extra healing + buffing + small damage increase bring light up to and surpass Dark?

I was going to make a HOrc str based monk, and wanting to know what path can bring maximum DPS.

[Sarnind]

nope, dark is better then light in dps

[manumase]

i'd still say dark has better DPS, ninja spy 3d6 doesnt scream much but with ToD its still a nice buff to DPS, and DPS is still 250 that can be double/ triple striked

[Khurse]

Dark has better individual DPS, Light is a better party booster.

[ganondalf]

ok, when people say ToD nerf do they actually know what that means? all they did was add a save and change it to negative damage. It still does (usually) 500 damage per strike, up to 4 consecutive strikes in wind stance (and sometimes fire IV if you're lucky) With a high wis mod that's a good 2000 extra damage every 15 seconds. Since most monk builds include a high wis score I can hardly call this a nerf. Oh and don't forget the triple dark finisher which causes mobs to take 10% more damage from negative damage types. If you factor that in I'd almost call it an overall buff.

Also with the epic mabar wraps that came out on halloween dark monks can still put the hurt on undead. Even more helpful is the all-consuming flame ability which can be used in place of ToD against undead.

Also sorry if I sound aggressive. I'm tired and not paying attention to what I'm typing.

[Khurse]

ok, when people say ToD nerf do they actually know what that means? all they did was add a save and change it to negative damage. It still does (usually) 500 damage per strike, up to 4 consecutive strikes in wind stance (and sometimes fire IV if you're lucky) With a high wis mod that's a good 2000 extra damage every 15 seconds. Since most monk builds include a high wis score I can hardly call this a nerf. Oh and don't forget the triple dark finisher which causes mobs to take 10% more damage from negative damage types. If you factor that in I'd almost call it an overall buff.

Also with the epic mabar wraps that came out on halloween dark monks can still put the hurt on undead. Even more helpful is the all-consuming flame ability which can be used in place of ToD against undead.

Also sorry if I sound aggressive. I'm tired and not paying attention to what I'm typing.

I haven't seen 4 strikes since the nerf, it's been 3 max for me in Wind. Also with a 42 Wisdom (not the best, but a pretty decent modifier) Hekx is unable to consistently land 500pts against raid bosses, Sure you see them, but 250 is far more common. Same goes for the darkx3 finisher.

That being said, TOD is still enough damage to put Dark Monks ahead of Light in pure DPS.

[andbr22]

well Light -> shintao is made specially for crowd control (Kukan-Do, jade tomb against undead and non lawfull extraplanar (won't work against devils HIC!)), and is realy usefull in epics (support CC).
Dark is raw dmg. A bit harder to find suitable beater, but ToD all the way (unless you are fighting undead). Before changes they were at peak of DPS (look at fastess shroud run in achivment it not mistake that big part there were monks (and I can asure they were dark ones), and it was done just before changes to ToD and Tendon slice).

[J1NG]

I'd like to quickly put forth a correction regarding the Shintao abilities: That I can confirm that the Shintao abilities do indeed work on Devils.

So as to not go off topic too much.

Overall dps I would say a Shintao would take it.
Highest dps would be a Dark Monk.

But I will also say that it's down to how you build your monk as well.

J1NG

[Nevthial]

But I will also say that it's down to how you build your monk as well.

J1NG

This is what is really amounts to. +1 !

[Geonis]

(look at fastess shroud run in achivment it not mistake that big part there were monks (and I can asure they were dark ones), and it was done just before changes to ToD and Tendon slice).

The reason the fastest ever Shroud run was all monks, is because the biggest time waster is the portals, which can't be critted. Monks have the highest base damage available with 2d12 base damage.

If they would change part 1 to not be the time sink it is, then it could be any class on a fastest run.

[phillymiket]

It seems like a skilled light monk creates the best DPS for the party.

For Bosses I suspect the dark wins out for the amount of individual damage but the lights ability to buff the party is an X factor.

For most of the monks I see dark is much much better because the players don't use the abilities properly.

Far too often I see light monks ki maxed out at all times because they just don't use it enough.
(and I'm not talking about epic mass-hold situations when ki generation is through the roof)

[~WickedWendigo]

well Light -> shintao is made specially for crowd control (Kukan-Do, jade tomb against undead and non lawfull extraplanar (won't work against devils HIC!)

I may be wrong against this but I beleive the restriction on Shintoa 3 strikes/moves applies only to creatures labeled specifically lawful outsider, it will work on creatures labeled as Lawful Evil Outsider, and quite a few devils are just labeled Evil Outsider. If you click on the investigate button it will show you their classification. Reason I say this is Jade Strike/Smite Tainted works on Harry who is still a devil (unless Im mistaken) and Lawful Evil but not labeled just as Lawful Outsider.

[JohnRove]

well Light -> shintao is made specially for crowd control (Kukan-Do, jade tomb against undead and non lawfull extraplanar (won't work against devils HIC!)), .

Shintao abilities work fine against devils. They do not work against "Lawful Outsiders" which are outsiders which are Lawful Neutral or Lvl20 Monks with capstone regardless of alignment. This was specifically mentioned when Shintao updates were being discussed on Lama.

[NeutronStar]

jade tomb against undead and non lawfull extraplanar (won't work against devils HIC!))

I put Devils in the Vale and Amrath in a Tomb of Jade constantly.

[Fafnir]

Dark is clearly more DPS.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Dark is more individual dps, but a well played light monk is a force multiplier for the entire party with multiple stunning options for autocrits to tear enemies apart in a hurry.

Light is also somewhat less gear-dependent if you go Shintao as you wont have to worry about grinding for the elusive metalline of PG handwraps to bypass boss DR.. anything with holy or PG plus whatever else you fancy is perfectly good.

[Zharfie]

sigh, stop caring about the "maximum/better DPS" already, just play a toon that you enjoy playing!

Oh and don't forget the triple dark finisher which causes mobs to take 10% more damage from negative damage types.

it's 25% boost to damage actually but it does not work on most raid bosses I know of... works well in epic though and I use it frequently.

[Soleran]

In most groups in most content you'll never really notice a difference in dps when you play a monk if you just like to play DDO.

If you start to raid and get into higher end content epics etc and want to do a break down I'd give the dps race to dark monks. Light monks end up setting up finishers that last a minute and generally take away from their dps as well as not having Touch of Death and 3d6 sneak attack damage.

Shintao (light) monks tend to be more forgiving to newer players in regards to gear requirements for breaking boss dr and as was mentioned multiple stun methods. That said you don't need alot of forgiving when you are a lvl 9 character and can hit a monster for 250-1500 damage with the dark monk tod setup.

[redgod]

sigh, stop caring about the "maximum/better DPS" already, just play a toon that you enjoy playing!



it's 25% boost to damage actually but it does not work on most raid bosses I know of... works well in epic though and I use it frequently.

agreed all the talk of maximum dps is a waste.

you do not play in a vaccume and player skill is way more a determining factor than build when it comes to dps. I have seen naked toons with delera twigs take commanding kill count leads to prove this point. your noob with a cookie cutter will not outshine a true gimp with experience and skill so roll a toon learn the game and away you go.

[wax_on_wax_off]

agreed all the talk of maximum dps is a waste.

you do not play in a vaccume and player skill is way more a determining factor than build when it comes to dps. I have seen naked toons with delera twigs take commanding kill count leads to prove this point. your noob with a cookie cutter will not outshine a true gimp with experience and skill so roll a toon learn the game and away you go.

This is terrible advice. DDO has such a steep learning curve when it comes to character creation that it is almost impossible not to roll up a gimp the first time around and just about everyone I know will either delete or spend $ to LR/GR/TR.

Asking whether after the changes if light has caught up to dark in terms of pure DPS is a really excellent academic question. It's difficult to have an answer so a forum is a good place to look at the some of the factors.
a. metalline of GEOB that a dark monk uses vs holy of GEOB that a Shintao monk uses.
b. Ki for ToD reallocated to Void/Earth/Wind Strike IV
c. enhancements for ToD reallocated to Void Strike IV and other tier 4 strikes/stances
d. CC aspects of Shintao affect on personal and party DPS

a. relates to DPS vs bosses, d. relates to DPS vs trash.
I imagine that a dark path monk should be in front in terms of raw DPS but a light path monk has many advantages which make it very attractive (easier to equip, more survivability, excellent CC).

In the end, monk is a very active style of play with lots of button mashing, light path is more, dark path is more manageable. If you want to play light path monk then you better learn to use all of those moves.