Coolest thing ever in a game...?

[wyndzen]

I wanted to give a heads-up to those of you who have never experienced the monk dark path touch of death enhancement.

It is probably the coolest thing ever that I've experienced in an rpg, and I've been playing rpg's since Sega came out with Phantasy Star in the mid or late 80's.

Here I am, playing a halfling monk, my first ddo char. I originally chose dark path, and even monk itself, because touch of death seemed pretty eye-popping. Usually in DnD, you get damage increases in amounts of something like 2, for a specific weapon, after 4 levels of fighter. Melee types who somehow manage to do 50, or 100 damage, usually get pretty happy about that.

Touch of Death takes an enormous amount of enhancements points - 12 of them - since it costs 4 and you have to waste 8 points on 4 utterly useless (unless I am missing something) other enhancements as prereqs, so I am guessing that people often don't gain it. Plus, I've seen some strategy suggestions on monks that always seem to suggest going light path, for some reason. (Use the purple lightning, Luke! Don't be a wuss!)

I think that the devs got how good dark path was for monks, when they gave us a clue with the name "the path of inevitable dominion."

So here I am, playing a monk maximized for AC and to-hit - not some huge barbarian maxed out for damage. I do plenty of damage, because of all the extra dam from stuff like holy and bleeding and two weapon fighting, but I don't sacrifice stuff (like ac) for damage.

I actually waited and didn't take touch of death at lvl 9, which, looking back, was silly, but it just seemed so expensive and I thought that I wanted other stuff.

At lvl 12, I redid my enhancements and took it. Holy heck! The boss is just sitting there innocently, figuring to have another drawn-out fight, and I popped him for 1000. Oh, did you think that ToD only did a mere 500?

The devs and wiki-writers seem to have left out the minor detail that monks often hit twice with their ki-attacks. I'm assuming that it has to do with twf, because it happens more often than double-strike should. And the save for 1/2 damage on pain touch is full monk level, not half monk level (plus 10 plus wis mod).

Really, you should experience it. Sure, it is probably overpowered, maybe somebody might call it cheesy, but whatever. I take rules and worlds as the devs make them, and don't consider anything right in the rules to be cheesy (unless it kills ME - lol). There is something so very satisfying about pain touch, especially if you've recently lost some fight to something previously.

POW! 1000 damage, or 500, or at minimum, 250 (unless the mob jumps away, but you can generally wait until he isn't about to leap somewhere). And it is reliable. It doesn't rely on rolling a crit, or landing a stun, or whatever.

I have a hard time believing that anything in the light path for monks is as good as ToD until maybe the very high levels, but I'm sure others have their own opinions. And it is so fun! The only thing that comes close is Otto's resistable dance - heh. But that is more funny than satisfying in the way that pain touch is satisfying.

DDO is kind of funny in that it doesn't seem at all worried about game balance, probably because there isn't any pk to speak of (all of which I like). Halfling monks, at around lvl 15, have about 1200 hps, and every other race of monk has around 230. (Because halflings get the healing dragonmarks, and other races get ****-tactular dragonmarks.)

I happen to not have fought any beholders since I got pain touch, but the next one I see... hehe.

ToD kind of seems to blow normal dps builds and calculations out of the window at mid levels - heh. I wish that I had a screen shot of two simultaneous hits for normal weapon dam plus 500 neg en damage, but I'm not quick enough with ctrl-p yet for that.

[Diyon]

I wanted to give a heads-up to those of you who have never experienced the monk dark path pain touch enhancement.

It is probably the coolest thing ever that I've experienced in an rpg, and I've been playing rpg's since Sega came out with Phantasy Star in the mid or late 80's.

Here I am, playing a halfling monk, my first ddo char. I originally chose dark path, and even monk itself, because pain touch seemed pretty eye-popping. Usually in DnD, you get damage increases in amounts of something like 2, for a specific weapon, after 4 levels of fighter. Melee types who somehow manage to do 50, or 100 damage, usually get pretty happy about that.

Pain touch takes an enormous amount of enhancements points - 12 of them - since it costs 4 and you have to waste 8 points on 4 utterly useless (unless I am missing something) other enhancements as prereqs, so I am guessing that people often don't gain it. Plus, I've seen some strategy suggestions on monks that always seem to suggest going light path, for some reason. (Use the purple lightning, Luke! Don't be a wuss!)

I think that the devs got how good dark path was for monks, when they gave us a clue with the name "the path of inevitable dominion."

So here I am, playing a monk maximized for AC and to-hit - not some huge barbarian maxed out for damage. I do plenty of damage, because of all the extra dam from stuff like holy and bleeding and two weapon fighting, but I don't sacrifice stuff (like ac) for damage.

I actually waited and didn't take pain touch at lvl 9, which, looking back, was silly, but it just seemed so expensive and I thought that I wanted other stuff.

At lvl 12, I redid my enhancements and took it. Holy heck! The boss is just sitting there innocently, figuring to have another drawn-out fight, and I popped him for 1000. Oh, did you think that pain touch only did a mere 500?

The devs and wiki-writers seem to have left out the minor detail that monks often hit twice with their ki-attacks. I'm assuming that it has to do with twf, because it happens more often than double-strike should. And the save for 1/2 damage on pain touch is full monk level, not half monk level (plus 10 plus wis mod).

Really, you should experience it. Sure, it is probably overpowered, maybe somebody might call it cheesy, but whatever. I take rules and worlds as the devs make them, and don't consider anything right in the rules to be cheesy. There is something so very satisfying about pain touch, especially if you've recently lost some fight to something previously.

POW! 1000 damage, or 500, or at minimum, 250 (unless the mob jumps away, but you can generally wait until he isn't about to leap somewhere). And it is reliable. It doesn't rely on rolling a crit, or landing a stun, or whatever.

I have a hard time believing that anything in the light path for monks is as good as pain touch, but I'm sure others have their own opinions. And it is so fun! The only thing that comes close is Otto's resistable dance - heh. But that is more funny than satisfying in the way that pain touch is satisfying.

DDO is kind of funny in that it doesn't seem at all worried about game balance, probably because there isn't any pk to speak of (all of which I like). Halfling monks, at around lvl 15, have about 1200 hps, and every other race of monk has around 230. (Because halflings get the healing dragonmarks, and other races get ****-tactular dragonmarks.)

I happen to not have fought any beholders since I got pain touch, but the next one I see... hehe.

Pain touch kind of seems to blow normal dps builds and calculations out of the window - heh. I wish that I had a screen shot of two simultaneous hits for normal weapon dam plus 500 neg en damage, but I'm not quick enough with ctrl-p yet for that.

......I am at a loss as to what to say here. But I'll try.

One it requires a save and has a lengthy cooldown and requires you to hit, it doesn't blow normal dps builds out of the water because a barb can be sitting there swinging for hundreds a swing and do more damage in the time it takes you to do touch of death plus all the attacks during that time. Other builds aren't blown out of the water because they have similar situations. Also, wizard/sorcerers can cast spells that do way more damage than a 1000 potentially. 1000 damage is nice, but it isn't really as much as you're thinking it is

People play light monks a lot now because you get a bunch of extra damage (including making the group do more damage) on a decent subset of monsters, as well as awesome CC on all those monsters, plus a ranged stun that works on anything stunnable. Also you get to bypass byshek, cold iron, and silver damage reductions automatically, and have some good short term buffs.

Yes the halflings have much better dragonmarks, and they are good if you have the room for the feats, but your halfling monk hardly has 1200 hp. You can survive that much damage on your own in a combat but not if it all comes too quickly. If you get hit for 150 something while you're down at 50-75% hp you are still dead.

I don't understand how just being able to do a big chunk of damage in one instance is the greatest RPG experience ever. Its not particularly interesting as I see it. However I'm glad you are enjoying dark monk, I'm not saying its bad, because its not, but you're looking like you've got a shiny haze in your eyes looking at this, and its good to eventually realize how these things work out realistically.

[wyndzen]

Lol, well, I guess that I've been educated. I've only been playing a for a few weeks. I was mostly making a statement about my enjoyment, not strategy. Obviously, since I mentioned that this was my first char, I'm not claiming to be giving strategic ddo advice and comparisons. If I came across that way, I miscommunicated. And I certainly wasn't bragging with this post. Obviously I don't think that I am something special because of a straightforward rpg ability that my char has. Taking pain touch isn't some brilliant creative combo I figured out - it is just one ability.

I also didn't mean that pain touch blows other dps builds out of the water over a period of several rounds. I meant it more in terms of that initial burst of dam. The save regarding pain touch is only for 1/2 damage, it doesn't negate it, and, as I mentioned, it is a very high save. And usually I hit on anything higher than a roll of a 1, with my to-hit stat being pretty high.

How do lvl 9 or even lvl 15 barbarians do 100's of damage per swing? I have a hard time imagining that. That has to involve crits, right? Or people with no AC? And surely not solo? But maybe they can and I just don't know the gear or the build yet. As I said, I'm pretty new.

I have the same question about mages doing well over 1000 damage. Surely their defense isn't all that great? And how does a lvl 9 or even 15 lvl mage do that much dam to a boss? Again, I'm new, so I believe that it is eventually possible if you say it is, but I'm not sure how. Maybe you mean at or near to lvl 20? Superior potency with some other stuff, I suppose.

I wasn't really talking about lvl 20 chars, by the way. Just mid-level stuff while you are leveling on your way to a true rez.

In terms of it being the best rpg experience ever, I can't explain it. It just was/is. That was my main point. I think that it has something to do with being a little halfling built mostly for defense, and then finding out that I could whack people for 1000.

(On my way now to see how light monks do a ranged stun.) The trouble with stun, from my experience so far, is that I assume it doesn't work well on bosses, and other fights are generally so easy anyway.

Edit: ok, I give up. How do light monks do a ranged stun? And what is 'CC'? Critical chance?

[AyumiAmakusa]

Cool story bro.

[BladedThesis]

Glad to hear you're enjoying your monk. I can totally see why you'd be enamored of popping off 1000 dmg at lvl 9. W/ fire stance and crane its not to hard to keep the ki up either especially if you're alone or in a small group. As for barbs and casters damage, well my lvl 4 barb w/ a anarchy of pure good great axe crits for about 125 ish, so you can see how later on barbs can hit really hard. Especially half-orcs. Casters dont really have anything like that at lvl 9 that does 1000 damage, but disintegrate is lvl 11 for wizzys, and delayed blast fireball is lvl 13 for wiz. Both spells have enormous damage potential depending on the situation. You will find that the damage from ToD will balance out more the farther you go along in lvls. Mobs get more hp and other toons keep getting more damage too. So while the 1000 potential damage remains the same at lvl 20 as it was at lvl 9 (you will have way more ki though and use it more), all the barb/fighter/rngs etc will have been getting more and more damage as they go along. I would think it is definetely competitive but at end game is not the uber-power it feels like at lvl 9.

[wigthemaster]

Lol, well, I guess that I've been educated. I've only been playing a for a few weeks. I was mostly making a statement about my enjoyment, not strategy. Obviously, since I mentioned that this was my first char, I'm not claiming to be giving strategic ddo advice and comparisons. If I came across that way, I miscommunicated. And I certainly wasn't bragging with this post. Obviously I don't think that I am something special because of a straightforward rpg ability that my char has. Taking pain touch isn't some brilliant creative combo I figured out - it is just one ability.

I also didn't mean that pain touch blows other dps builds out of the water over a period of several rounds. I meant it more in terms of that initial burst of dam. The save regarding pain touch is only for 1/2 damage, it doesn't negate it, and, as I mentioned, it is a very high save. And usually I hit on anything higher than a roll of a 1, with my to-hit stat being pretty high.

How do lvl 9 or even lvl 15 barbarians do 100's of damage per swing? I have a hard time imagining that. That has to involve crits, right? Or people with no AC? And surely not solo? But maybe they can and I just don't know the gear or the build yet. As I said, I'm pretty new.

I have the same question about mages doing well over 1000 damage. Surely their defense isn't all that great? And how does a lvl 9 or even 15 lvl mage do that much dam to a boss? Again, I'm new, so I believe that it is eventually possible if you say it is, but I'm not sure how. Maybe you mean at or near to lvl 20? Superior potency with some other stuff, I suppose.

I wasn't really talking about lvl 20 chars, by the way. Just mid-level stuff while you are leveling on your way to a true rez.

In terms of it being the best rpg experience ever, I can't explain it. It just was/is. That was my main point. I think that it has something to do with being a little halfling built mostly for defense, and then finding out that I could whack people for 1000.

(On my way now to see how light monks do a ranged stun.) The trouble with stun, from my experience so far, is that I assume it doesn't work well on bosses, and other fights are generally so easy anyway.

Edit: ok, I give up. How do light monks do a ranged stun? And what is 'CC'? Critical chance?

CC = crowd control
Ranged stun = Kukan-do
Mages don't need AC if they never get hit.
A good built barb will just destroy everything...
A light path monk gets Shintao. Shintao makes them essentially a walking boss beater/DR breaker.
Oh and for mages hitting 1k damage - Polar ray, firewall (on undead), delayed blast fireball, meteor swarm, plenty of ways. And you can get potency whenever.
By pain touch do you mean Touch of Death or am i missing something?

[Diyon]

Lol, well, I guess that I've been educated. I've only been playing a for a few weeks. I was mostly making a statement about my enjoyment, not strategy. Obviously, since I mentioned that this was my first char, I'm not claiming to be giving strategic ddo advice and comparisons. If I came across that way, I miscommunicated. And I certainly wasn't bragging with this post. Obviously I don't think that I am something special because of a straightforward rpg ability that my char has. Taking pain touch isn't some brilliant creative combo I figured out - it is just one ability.

I also didn't mean that pain touch blows other dps builds out of the water over a period of several rounds. I meant it more in terms of that initial burst of dam. The save regarding pain touch is only for 1/2 damage, it doesn't negate it, and, as I mentioned, it is a very high save. And usually I hit on anything higher than a roll of a 1, with my to-hit stat being pretty high.

How do lvl 9 or even lvl 15 barbarians do 100's of damage per swing? I have a hard time imagining that. That has to involve crits, right? Or people with no AC? And surely not solo? But maybe they can and I just don't know the gear or the build yet. As I said, I'm pretty new.

I have the same question about mages doing well over 1000 damage. Surely their defense isn't all that great? And how does a lvl 9 or even 15 lvl mage do that much dam to a boss? Again, I'm new, so I believe that it is eventually possible if you say it is, but I'm not sure how. Maybe you mean at or near to lvl 20? Superior potency with some other stuff, I suppose.

I wasn't really talking about lvl 20 chars, by the way. Just mid-level stuff while you are leveling on your way to a true rez.

In terms of it being the best rpg experience ever, I can't explain it. It just was/is. That was my main point. I think that it has something to do with being a little halfling built mostly for defense, and then finding out that I could whack people for 1000.

(On my way now to see how light monks do a ranged stun.) The trouble with stun, from my experience so far, is that I assume it doesn't work well on bosses, and other fights are generally so easy anyway.

Edit: ok, I give up. How do light monks do a ranged stun? And what is 'CC'? Critical chance?

CC=Crowd Control, stuns, stones, etc

lvl18 or Shintao III light monks get a ranged stun.

A lot of people look towards end game. For instance starting in mid level useful ac becomes hard to get, and becomes really hard to get at high levels.

[wyndzen]

Yeah, Bladed. That is exactly what I meant. It is the low level-ness of the ability, and, as I said, on a little halfling monk built mainly for defense, that makes it so much fun.

Obviously, if somebody builds a h-orc barb with a great axe (I'm not sure if there is an X4 crit weapon as well that is 2 handed), then they are going to expect to do a lot of dam, and crits will be very fun. There is just something extra-fun, at least for me, with having a little halfling with a 32 dex and 8 base str and a bunch of feats invested into healing haul off and do 1000, or even 250, without even rolling a crit.

[ganondalf]

1200 Hp??? Oh God Everyone Quick Reroll

[wyndzen]

CC = crowd control
Ranged stun = Kukan-do

By pain touch do you mean Touch of Death or am i missing something?

Whoops. Yes, obviously I mean the lvl 9 enhancement. For some reason I got it in my head as pain touch. I edited the OP.

I actually hadn't noticed that there was a 3rd level of Shintao Monk. I can see how strong that could be. Perhaps I'll try it out once I True Res.

Again, my original point was that Touch of Death at mid levels is really fun. I realize that by 18th or 20th level it evens out or is surpassed by various other things, although I am curious as to whether the chars who can do damage on that level truly can defend as well as a monk.

[Missing_Minds]

1200 Hp??? Oh God Everyone Quick Reroll

Naw, just give it time. The expert will call for nerf eventually.