Who's the leader, anyways?

[Zigana]

Just got done with a shroud that completed successfully (per usual) with only 11 people, because the 12th person decided to be a ****** and drop party in part 3.

I did my usual ramble prelude to going in, one of the things being to not put waters in unfinished puzzles. I know that people say you can put them in as long as the last one is not put in before the're all solved, but I just play it safe and say don't do it. Never been an issue until now. Someone had to state that it was changed and that it no longer applies. My response? Well, it wasn't changed within the last few days, as a guildie of mine threw the last water in one step from last puzzle being solved and we lost the center chests (normally not a big deal, but ******, I've been needing a medium shard on that toon for the last 3 or 4 runs!!). I also followed that up with a simple, I have the star, we're doing it my way please. Said person decided they couldn't handle that, dropped group and then proceeded to send me tells stating that I would know what I was talking about if I read the release notes more often.

I went back and looked at the release notes (which I read every time they're released) just to make sure I hadn't missed something about this. Unless I'm completely blind, the 12-13-10 notes don't include anything about the shroud apart from something about DI and part 4 I believe it was. Of course, I could be completely blind, but I don't believe so. Since it's been failed within the last week, I'm highly doubting that anything got changed (or even will, it's a perfectly accepted part of the shroud, IMO).

I run shrouds on a regular basis, a lot of people trust my leadership and I get compliments regularly that it was the best shroud they've ever run in. I don't know everything about this game yet, never claimed to even come close--but I do know shroud and regulars run it with me because they know I'll build a solid group that can get it done.

So, to the point of this post. I put up the LFM, I retained the star, I didn't ask for help to lead the raid, therefor, I should have been the one making the decisions, assigning the roles, etc. If you don't like how the party leader runs things, don't run with them again. But FFS, don't sit there and argue with how they're choosing to do things, especially since it wasn't something that was gonna make or break the win factor or cost you to blow resources, etc. Holding off on one water only meant a guaranteed extra 2 chests. Pretty realistic expectation for the group to follow. Dropping group like you did just made you look like a fool to everyone else in the raid, most of which agreed with me, either in party or through tells afterwards.

TL;DR--Do what the leader asks and play nice or don't bother joining others groups!

[ragwa1]

It's over 9000!!!!!

But in all seriousness,

/signed

[Adalita]

Your group, your rules, always seemed a simple rule to follow I thought. Not simple enough for some it seems

[Franke]

From the screen shot, it appears to me only one person was being abusive...

[Templarion]

From the screen shot, it appears to me only one person was being abusive...

Yep. The screenshot isn't exactly on your side here.

It takes two to tango, right?

[Zigana]

From the screen shot, it appears to me only one person was being abusive...

Like I said, he was getting pretty rude before I grabbed that screenie. I was very polite about the situation over voice chat before he started getting nasty about it. However, you're free to see it how you want. Those that know me know I'm not rude, I'm simply firm and to the point...until provoked. Regardless, the post was less about the tells themselves, and more about the attitude overall. Keep on topic :P

[Zigana]

Yep. The screenshot isn't exactly on your side here.

It takes two to tango, right?

Removing the screen shot since people apparently can't focus on the subject that is really at hand here.

[Zanuzi]

Removing the screen shot since people apparently can't focus on the subject that is really at hand here.

hmm, this seems op made a false claim, so I will now hide the evidence that may prove op was also to blame.

[Zigana]

hmm, this seems op made a false claim, so I will now hide the evidence that may prove op was also to blame.

Umm, no. First couple of /signed posts can acknowledge that's not the case. My screen shot had the tale end of the convo where I got ****y in response to his whiny tells. I missed the first messages as I didn't capture until I was out of the shroud and they had already scrolled off the top of chat. So, they appear to be me getting nasty with him without provocation, which certainly wasn't the case. However, it's neither here nor there, it doesn't change the whole point of the post. I don't care what the hell you think about me based on the screenie part--the point of this is don't join a party run by someone else and expect it to be run the way you want. Plain and simple.

[Dandonk]

While the tells were a little rude I do believe the OPs point stands: If you're in a PUG, do what the leader asks you to. The leader is the leader, even if you wouldn't do it the same way.

Of course, in guild groups this is not the case. In guild groups, feel free to cast grease at the best (worst) of times, dispel ff on people jumping off cliffs/edges and so on. After all, what are guilds for?

[NaturalHazard]

Umm, no. First couple of /signed posts can acknowledge that's not the case. My screen shot had the tale end of the convo where I got ****y in response to his whiny tells. I missed the first messages as I didn't capture until I was out of the shroud and they had already scrolled off the top of chat. So, they appear to be me getting nasty with him without provocation, which certainly wasn't the case. However, it's neither here nor there, it doesn't change the whole point of the post. I don't care what the hell you think about me based on the screenie part--the point of this is don't join a party run by someone else and expect it to be run the way you want. Plain and simple.

You should never of posted the screenie in the first place if it didnt have the whole story on it, putting it up then taking it down just makes it worse for people who havent seen it but read other people questioning you about it. I think Ive run into you in game and you seemed ok so I would give you the benifit of the doubt, but it might be different for others.

And I dont see why he should get his undies all in a twist and bail on the group on something as minor as waiting to put water in till its solved.

[Zigana]

You should never of posted the screenie in the first place if it didnt have the whole story on it, putting it up then taking it down just makes it worse for people who havent seen it but read other people questioning you about it. I think Ive run into you in game and you seemed ok so I would give you the benifit of the doubt, but it might be different for others.

And I dont see why he should get his undies all in a twist and bail on the group on something as minor as waiting to put water in till its solved.

The point of putting it up was to show his snarky response of "maybe you should go reading the release notes before pretending you know everything" part. Looking back, without the other messages of his rudeness to include as well, it does appear I'm being a complete b**** without any real good reason. That's not the case, there was more to it than that. I probably should have just skipped the screenie altogether though in hindsight, as that point was missed. Oh well, it's done. Regardless, my reputation with the people I run with is pretty solid, so if a few forumites want to dwell on something that has no bearing on the actual post topic, that's their prerogative.

None of us got it either. It just left the group having to make up for the missing link. Thankfully, it was just normal shroud so it wasn't a big deal and things ran pretty smoothly for the rest of it. It's more of an annoyance that he thought he had the right to decide how the quest was done when he wasn't in charge.

It's not the first time it's happened in recent weeks, it seems to be a growing trend--people think they know it all and have to jump in and take control without even being asked. If I wanted to follow you, I would have joined your group instead of posting my own. When I don't have the star, I follow the lead. If I know something that might work better, I will suggest it, but the star has the final say in how things go. That's how it should be.

[boomeranky]

Back to the question of the OP

It is the first time I read/hear that it should be sufficient if all puzzle are solved before the last fountain is filled.... is that true now or just an urban legend?

Cause in my experience (ok, groups i was in (and which i usually lead) haven't failed the extra chests in a long time (maybe 2 or 3 times in 60 completions) and puzzles were solved before last fountain was filled while one longer ago was filled while the specific puzzle was not solved at the time) it is definitely just a false rumor.

There is one small exception though about the 5x5 puzzle, which still needs it to be solved .... if all puzzles are solved and their fountains filled except the northern 2nd fountain, you can already loot the chests - but you also can't put water into fountain anymore with an unsolved puzzle at this moment.

So what is it now?

[Zigana]

Back to the question of the OP

It is the first time I read/hear that it should be sufficient if all puzzle are solved before the last fountain is filled.... is that true now or just an urban legend?

Cause in my experience (ok, groups i was in (and which i usually lead) haven't failed the extra chests in a long time (maybe 2 or 3 times in 60 completions) and puzzles were solved before last fountain was filled while one longer ago was filled while the specific puzzle was not solved at the time) it is definitely just a false rumor.

There is one small exception though about the 5x5 puzzle, which still needs it to be solved .... if all puzzles are solved and their fountains filled except the northern 2nd fountain, you can already loot the chests - but you also can't put water into fountain anymore with an unsolved puzzle at this moment.

So what is it now?

I honestly don't know what the catch is that causes the loss. All I know is recently, my guildie put the water in the SE 5x5 before it was solved (not the north one), it was the last puzzle, all other waters were run, and we could not get the chests because of it. So, my rules always have been, and will always continue to be until it's stated one way or the other by a dev--just don't chance it. It shouldn't be a big deal for people to wait. And it definitely shouldn't be something to argue over when the leader says to just hold off to make doubley sure.

[Ungood]

Your group, you're the leader.

If they wanna be leader so bad, they can form their own group!

[sweez]

Give us the screenshot

[Nexx]

Give us the screenshot

^^ this

[Disavowed]

Back to the question of the OP

It is the first time I read/hear that it should be sufficient if all puzzle are solved before the last fountain is filled.... is that true now or just an urban legend?

Cause in my experience (ok, groups i was in (and which i usually lead) haven't failed the extra chests in a long time (maybe 2 or 3 times in 60 completions) and puzzles were solved before last fountain was filled while one longer ago was filled while the specific puzzle was not solved at the time) it is definitely just a false rumor.

There is one small exception though about the 5x5 puzzle, which still needs it to be solved .... if all puzzles are solved and their fountains filled except the northern 2nd fountain, you can already loot the chests - but you also can't put water into fountain anymore with an unsolved puzzle at this moment.

So what is it now?

If the last water is put in before ALL puzzles are solved there is no extra chest. It can be the 5x5 the circle it doesn't matter. Once all the waters are put in the quest advances to the next part and the magical shield doesn't drop. The ONLY way the barrier drops is when all the puzzles are solved regardless of water in them or not. Again if all water is put in the fountains prior to the ALL the puzzles being solved the quest advances and the barrier stays. You can't go back and do puzzles afterwards either because once all waters are ran, all the puzzles show as solved and all doors are open and the magical sheils stays.



I know this to be a fact as we did it 2 nights ago in our drunken Shroud run and lost our 2 chests. It's the whole idea of the game. Get the puzzles solved first and get rewarded. If you can't becuase your group sucks break the crytals or knock the door and put water in without getting killed by the wall of death. That's the reward for taking the risk. Not that it's much of a risk these days as we do it in seconds now days, but that's the intent of the devs.

FYI this isn't the chat channel don't post stuff in here that you don't know to be a fact. All it does is add to more confusion which is what caused this in the 1st place. Some moron stating false information in a raid and a few noobs will believe what the moron said thus causing more problems later. I will refrain from the -1 which is what most people do for false info.

[Geodude07]

My thing is that even a leader can sometimes use new information. Just having a star does not make someone immune to basic sense, or recommendations, or even minor questioning as some seem to believe.

However I would not group you in that category.

arguing with the leader however is never a good act. Sure a tiny squabble or declaration of something can be acceptable as long as you follow what the leader says in the end and don't mess anything up. It is important as a player to not also confuse the star with infallibility or disrespect either. In other words a leader can mess up and will at some point but they are still leading and getting you to the end, so respect of that should always be present. It doesn't matter how pro you are, if you are in a group you listen to the leader if you want to function properly. Afterall two leaders just muddles up rules.

So in the end the point is this: It is ok to talk with your leader, to recommend courses of actions. Yet it is wrong to interfere with them and start arguing over a minor mistake on somebody's part.

[werk]

I agree with the OP, if a tile puzzle isn't solved, you are not really helping anyone by putting water in.
All you are doing is dramatically increasing the odds of not getting the 2 underwater chests and looking ignorant.


If you are so eager to help, stop being a nimrod and solve the freakin' puzzle.


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