To heal or not to heal...

[Anzanel]

I'm not a Cleric player at heart, but I did make a Cleric character a long time ago. Anyway, I was playing with her the other day, trying to get her to lvl 5 so she could wear the Might of the Abishai set, which would then free up some space in my shared bank. I then remembered why I didn't like playing as a cleric.

I joined a PUG running Kobolds' New Ringleader a few times. The leader was somewhat lacking in intelligence, and kept hitting explosive barrels along the way. I then had to heal him, only so he could keep doing the same thing. The fact that he was a WF with NO points in Healer's Friend didn't make matters any better. I mentioned to him that continuously blowing himself up was a bad idea, but he totally ignored me.

What do you all do in this scenario? Someone's being stupid, and you can either heal him or not heal him. If you DON'T heal him, the party doesn't advance as quickly and you level up slower. If you DO heal him, it only enables that kind of behavior. It's sort of a lose/lose situation :|

And what about when the rest of the party won't follow good advice and therefore take WAY more damage than they should? (I'm not a pro by any means, but I know how to run lowbie quests! And when I was a newbie, I listened to good advice, ya know?)

Please tell me people get smarter after the low-levels. If not then...Ive got way more respect for most clerics now that I know what kind of BS they have to put up with.

[Tyrande]

How about solo'ing the quest yourselves?

Or grab a hireling and then finish the quest yourself and the hireling?

[Zharfie]

some people have a great a statement in their bios on their healers

... "I don't/can't heal stupid"

[DrenglisEU]

some people have a great a statement in their bios on their healers

... "I don't/can't heal stupid"

This is a extremly good statement!!!

[soupertc]

Sometimes letting someone die is what ya have to do. Sometimes it's best just to leave em dead.

To many people think that since a healers in the party they can play sloppy.....or maybe that's how they always play. It's not your job to babysit em. If I don't see a person even take a sip of a pot in downtime between fights and typing HEAL ME in chat....well they die. When they ask me for a rez....I ignore em like they ignored me when I asked em if they had any pots on em.

You babysit them then they expect everyone to do it even in EPIC content. They gotta learn sometime...and if they don't well I got a list for those people too.

[Illiain]

I would and usually do let people like this die. Carrying their stone through 1/2 the mod tends to give them time to think about their actions.

It's obvious the alt is not a TR, so loosing the 10% exp won't be an issue.

Just last week I let a Wizzy die during Reaver's. He kept summoning Hezrou that would mess with agro and wouldn't stop firewalling him, then running out into the middle. Took us forever to get charge buffs. Run went a lot smoother with him in the penalty box. Funny thing was, we had 3 healers, he was an arcane WF and he still died.

[Natashaelle]

I would and usually do let people like this die. Carrying their stone through 1/2 the mod tends to give them time to think about their actions.

^^ This.

I suppose I'm mostly just lucky not to have had to do this in well over a year now, but in circumstances such as those being described by OP, I certainly would.

One trick I've found to try and stop them doing it is to concentrate on destroying all barrels (I mean *all* not just the explodey ones) with ranged weapons before they can do so themselves. This sometimes works, by destroying their source of "fun".

Sometimes these people's attitudes change when they get down towards 0 hp, and it's also worth letting them reach that level to see if this happens -- if not, keep some spare backpack space...

[Phidius]

... If you DON'T heal him, the party doesn't advance as quickly and you level up slower...

There's the problem - you shouldn't PUG when you want to get XP fast. That kind of thing is best left for guild/channel runs, and save the train wrecks for when you're in the mood to enjoy them.

I've been avoiding the PUG scene as I grind out XP on Gemstone simply because I'm trying to shorten the grind, not prolong it.

[Adrian99]

Yeah, what they all said. Don't pug KNR. It takes all of 2 minutes to solo

[taurean430]

All of the harbor quests are soloable with a two handed weapon like a Maelstrom, Sword of the Thirty, Acid of pure good ah weapon, Hellstroke Greataxe, or Carnifex. Cast divine favor and go. You have your own heals and some potent crowd control.

I'd say the mistake you are making lies mostly in relying on others to dps stuff. For the lower leveled quests, it's very easy to swing around a two handed whatever and kill mobs yourself. Only problem is, it gets boring...

If you go beyond level 5, you would do well to consider what the people killing themselves actually contribute to the group effort to finish a quest. You can be nice and leave their stone by the shrine, or just move on.

If your goal is to only get to 5. A few runs of Kobold's New Ringleader, and a run of either Tangleroot normal or Waterworks normal should get you there pretty quick.

[JollySwagMan]

Be prepared to meet a lot of bad playstyles when PUG-ing the lower levels. The wf barbs are particularly noticeable for their mistakes when running PUGs on a Cleric, as they lack AC, have not learned to dodge enemy attacks/flank enemies/manage aggro and have a divine healing penalty. Also the tendency to ignore the potions that their barrel breaking provides is very common. This type of playstyle isn't limited to new players though, you may also encounter vets/TRs who may be accustomed to higher level play when they're expected to maintain DPS in raids and self sufficiency isn't as easy as in the lower levels. However you can more reasonably expect gear such as the weapons taurean430 mentioned as well as healing amp and ship buffs on these players, ultimately making them much less spongey.

Healing amp helps, but I'm not too fussed about 'healing stupid' if it's a casual group though.

In addition to soloing as some of the other posters have mentioned, I would suggest leading pugs for quests that you know, allowing you to prevent much of the headache by planning things out and establishing priorities ('don't destroy explosive barrels if a player's going to get hit by it', 'Ogres have a triple cleave attack. Either dodge it, or wait until the Ogre's Commanded before fighting him').

[jellyfish21]

Here is what exacly you do:

Role (not roll) Play It!

There is a million possibilities this way.
For example:

Be very firm about having a briliant idea to this warfoged.
Ask him to stand on, say, three exploding barrels.
Tell him you are a cleric and prayed hard for him.
Tell him you are going to enable him to meet the Lord of Blades.
Then, use your crossbow to blow up those barrels!

Ta-Da!

[QuantumFX]

To hjeal, or not to hjeal: that is the question.
Whether ‘tis nobler for the caster to suffer the mana and consumable loss caused by outrageous PuG member,
Or to take arms against the troublemaker, and by opposing end them?
To let them die: to sleep; no more; and by a sleep to say we let them become soulstones and the XP bonus lost.

I joined a PUG running Kobolds' New Ringleader a few times. The leader was somewhat lacking in intelligence, and kept hitting explosive barrels along the way. I then had to heal him, only so he could keep doing the same thing. The fact that he was a WF with NO points in Healer's Friend didn't make matters any better. I mentioned to him that continuously blowing himself up was a bad idea, but he totally ignored me.

What do you all do in this scenario? Someone's being stupid, and you can either heal him or not heal him.

Personally, I would not have healed him. He could have destroyed barrels just as fast and with less party resources used by equipping a throwing weapon.

If you DON'T heal him, the party doesn't advance as quickly and you level up slower.

Not really. Being forced to use a shrine because of a manasink slows the group down more than the manasink being reduced to a soulstone.

If you DO heal him, it only enables that kind of behavior.

Exactly. Which is why you want to draw the line in the sand now. There are times where keeping the manasink up is the best way to complete a quest. But this is the exception and not the rule.

Please tell me people get smarter after the low-levels. If not then...Ive got way more respect for most clerics now that I know what kind of BS they have to put up with.

Yes and No. You tend to lose most of the clueless idiots and gain the “*I* do it this way… and so should *you*.” types. But do not let that affect your play. Clerics and FvS’s are great classes to play. It would be a shame if a couple idiots ruined your

If you haven’t already: CHECK OUT THIS FORUM THREAD.

[PNellesen]

When I was first starting out, on my first Cleric, I would have tried my best to keep him healed. Now that I know better, though - no way. If you leave me behind and get killed, that's YOUR problem, not mine, and you can enjoy the warm coziness of my backpack until we get to the next shrine (assuming you didn't die somewhere such that we can't retrieve your stone.) I don't mind zerging with players who could otherwise solo the quest - they don't complain if they die, and usually they're smart enough to get back in healing range if they start getting low, but I no longer chase after players who insist on taking on more than they can handle. The SP you would waste on them could be better served in keeping the SMART players going instead.

[The_Great_Samulas]

There are several things that are to a clerics advantage that can help you avoid this in the future:

A) A cleric doesn't have a problem finding another group.

B) A cleric can solo alot of content even before blade barrier.

C) A cleric controls who gets healed and who doesn't in these type of groups. It gives extra "weight" to your verbage.

D) A cleric heals damage to the group as his third option, not his first.

E) A cleric can form his own groups.

F) A cleric has a sh!t list of people not to group with.

Hopefully, in the not to distant future you will look back on this and laugh. Laugh at why you put up with this and just the way people can act sometimes. As you gain expertise, you learn how the options above can work for you. Many new clerics run into these types of groups, and much of it is because you are reliant upon others to show you through dungeons or to complete the quest objectives. This is the classic curse of the healbot - reliance upon others to complete quest objectives, because all you do is heal others. Hopefully, you will grow out of this, but many do not.

[djaffi]

[QUOTE=QuantumFX;3519334][COLOR="Cyan"]To hjeal, or not to hjeal: that is the question.
Whether ‘tis nobler for the caster to suffer the mana and consumable loss caused by outrageous PuG member,
Or to take arms against the troublemaker, and by opposing end them?
To let them die: to sleep; no more; and by a sleep to say we let them become soulstones and the XP bonus lost.

+1 for adapting hamlet to DDO

[QuantumFX]

To hjeal, or not to hjeal: that is the question.
Whether ‘tis nobler for the caster to suffer the mana and consumable loss caused by outrageous PuG member,
Or to take arms against the troublemaker, and by opposing end them?
To let them die: to sleep; no more; and by a sleep to say we let them become soulstones and the XP bonus lost.

+1 for adapting hamlet to DDO

I borrowed the idea.

[JasonJi72]

I love these threads I really do. Having played a few clerics and fvs', I can give advice from the perspective of being a non-noob / non-vet. I almost always PUG. You can meet some interesting people this way, and if makes for some fun times. One instance comes to mind. Gweylans on elite. The mediocre rogue left. They wanted to get the extra traped chest. I told them they couldnt get it without a rogue, but I would go watch them die. One by one, they all died trying to get the chest. I laughed, and commented about how funny that was. Somebody got upset with me, but I was too busy laughing to care.

Recently I have made the switch to other types of characters since I can only take incremental doses of playing a "healer", but I do love the class', and I'm sure I will still play them again. I do have many stories, but I won't go into them.

Some of the things I do while playing a cleric/fvs:

1. cc as much as possible WITH party coordination if possible. cc and zerg if cooperation is not likely.
2. If I am having issues with a mana sponge who is not worth the trouble, I give 2 warnings and direction. When that doesn't work, I only heal them to about 10-30% of their red bar, if/when I get around to them. After that, it is somebody elses job to carry their stone, not mine.
3. Sometimes I will just duo the quest with a strong player if the others are falling short. I do this mainly to prevent them from dying, not to be mean.
4. I do carry all the necessary resources to use if need be, and I will use them, BUT I do set a limit to how much I will use directly proportional to the difficulty of the quest and the EFFORTS of the group to complete it. If a group is honestly trying and using resources of their own, I will give everything I can to help them.
5. Sometimes it is better to let somebody die, and not raise them until after the battle. (Sometimes it is better to not raise them at all, but if you are a cleric/fvs you have a heart lol.)
6. Realization that some quests will require more resources than others, and to prepare for them and not do too many in sequence was also a good thing for me to learn.

Things I do when playing a non-cleric/fvs:

1. Heal myself and take care of my own ailments.
2. Heal myself and take care of my own ailments.
3. Heal myself and take care of my own ailments. (Gee I really hope somebody reads this.)
4. Help heal the party between and during battles situationally.
5. Heal the cleric/fvs.
6. Manage my own aggro, and take out the casters first.
7. Do my best to not be a burden to the party, and help out the best I can.
8. Try not to do anything unusually dumb.
9. When I die, I blame only myself.

Whenever a new player asks me which character is best/easiest for learning the game, I always give the same response. "Every player should learn to play a cleric effectively first and foremost. You will be able to get into any quest, see all kinds of builds and playstyles, learn how to single handedly ensure the success of the party, and know what is expected of your other characters from the 'healer'."

Anyway... as I always say... Good Times!

[PNellesen]

Some of the things I do while playing a cleric/fvs:

1. cc as much as possible WITH party coordination if possible. cc and zerg if cooperation is not likely.
2. If I am having issues with a mana sponge who is not worth the trouble, I give 2 warnings and direction. When that doesn't work, I only heal them to about 10-30% of their red bar, if/when I get around to them. After that, it is somebody elses job to carry their stone, not mine.
3. Sometimes I will just duo the quest with a strong player if the others are falling short. I do this mainly to prevent them from dying, not to be mean.
4. I do carry all the necessary resources to use if need be, and I will use them, BUT I do set a limit to how much I will use directly proportional to the difficulty of the quest and the EFFORTS of the group to complete it. If a group is honestly trying and using resources of their own, I will give everything I can to help them.
5. Sometimes it is better to let somebody die, and not raise them until after the battle. (Sometimes it is better to not raise them at all, but if you are a cleric/fvs you have a heart lol.)
6. Realization that some quests will require more resources than others, and to prepare for them and not do too many in sequence was also a good thing for me to learn.

Pretty much exactly how I play, especially point 4.

Things I do when playing a non-cleric/fvs:

1. Heal myself and take care of my own ailments.
2. Heal myself and take care of my own ailments.
3. Heal myself and take care of my own ailments. (Gee I really hope somebody reads this.)
4. Help heal the party between and during battles situationally.
5. Heal the cleric/fvs.
6. Manage my own aggro, and take out the casters first.
7. Do my best to not be a burden to the party, and help out the best I can.
8. Try not to do anything unusually dumb.
9. When I die, I blame only myself.

Same for me here as well. I've actually had to become "healer" with my Ranger a couple times when the cleric ran out of SP, didn't have any wands, and died before I could give him mine. I now make it a point to carry 2 or 3 wands and give one to the cleric at the beginning of the quest.

Whenever a new player asks me which character is best/easiest for learning the game, I always give the same response. "Every player should learn to play a cleric effectively first and foremost. You will be able to get into any quest, see all kinds of builds and playstyles, learn how to single handedly ensure the success of the party, and know what is expected of your other characters from the 'healer'."

I agree in principle with that, but you should also mention that you need a thick skin to play a cleric. My first character was a cleric, and I almost quit the game because of a couple of the comments made in party chat when I was first learning how to play. It didn't happen very often, but enough to make me consider whether I wanted to keep playing or not.

[NaturalHazard]

If only you could heal stupid............