Too much forums for me?

[arjiwan]

Greetings DDO Community,

I hope you can add your thoughts regarding this.

I was running Eyes of Stone on hard. The party consists of me as a cleric (alt), tempest elf ranger, pew pew elf ranger, fleshy monk, WF wiz and a WF barb. Healing the 2 WF was kinda hard, I don't think they have healer's friend. I consumed 2 crit cure wands and some heal scrolls ( I am soliciting sympathy I know ). I rarely heal the 2 WFs for the fact that I assumed they can handle it with the reconstruct from the WF wiz.

Now came hestess, with me on full mana, I full combat heal the fleshies with wands, scrolls and RS burst (sometimes SP heal). I am also spamming cometfalls and placing BB's.

Sometimes the two WFs incaps or dies, then I rez them, pop one heal scroll but not healing them to full.

After the "successful" quest, the wiz WF typed in the party chat, "Too bad the cleric wants to play as a wizard rather than healing". I did not answered back. I thought, uhm I am not your nanny, and at the same time, my BB and cometfall with maximise and superior efficacy clickie somewhat helped in dealing damage.

Now I am thinking, am I wrong for not healing the WFs and assuming (and learned from the forums and my own realization) that they should heal themselves because they have the means. I am not asking them to be 100% self-sufficient but at least kinda take care of themselves from time to time.

Wow, sorry for the wall of text. What do you think guys?

Cheers!

PS:
I am having trouble uploading in photobucket, so...
I leave you this...

[Lifeblood]

As a cleric you are usually expected to heal all in the party unless otherwise stated
If you don't heal WF you need to tell the the grp up front.

there is no reason you should not heal WF esp if you have access to heal/heal scroll
don't tell me your poor.. I have several clerics and they make plenty of plat to keep them selves
stocked with such things

wf wiz should be taking care of their own healing and helping out where they can but personally I would rather they nuke and cc mobs

[shortdevils]

The Wf wiz should require Very minimal healing and also almost all Wf wiz i have run with ( when on my cleric.) offer to heal any other Wf in the party. If its a fleshie, not as much but if they dont offer to help, i ask them too.

For some reason though i be seeing some non self sefficient Wf wiz Lately. Which is a paradox really.

Now to ur question , keeping everyone alive is important for clerics. How u do this ( CC, Nuking , healing etc) is of personal preference.so no you are not wrong for nuking but You shouldnt expect a wf barb to be really self sufficient, (not saying they cant be) you should heal at least the barb. Like i said wf wiz shouldnt need a divine to nanny for them , isnt that the whole point of being a robotic nerd?( yes for Rp purposes i consider wizzies to be nerds.)

You should heal everyone though. Cant be divine and not expect to be asked for heals even by nuts and bolts.

[arjiwan]

As a cleric you are usually expected to heal all in the party unless otherwise stated
If you don't heal WF you need to tell the the grp up front.

there is no reason you should not heal WF esp if you have access to heal/heal scroll
don't tell me your poor.. I have several clerics and they make plenty of plat to keep them selves
stocked with such things

First, I did not say I don't want to heal the WF at all. I think it is somewhere there in my wall-o-text that I "rarely", but not "not at all".
Second, I did not say I am poor, the sympathy thingy is about, "I used resources so I the good guy" humor. You said you have several clerics, I don't have several clerics, and I am a casual player also, but not complaining that I am using plat to heal nor asking for a donation.
Third, my title was too much forums for me? The idea of cleric's job is to only heal, I think it is pointed many times in this forum, and also for Arcane WF to heal themselves and the self-sufficient blah blah in this forums. How about that?

The Wf wiz should require Very minimal healing and also almost all Wf wiz i have run with ( when on my cleric.) offer to heal any other Wf in the party. If its a fleshie, not as much but if they dont offer to help, i ask them too.

For some reason though i be seeing some non self sefficient Wf wiz Lately. Which is a paradox really.

Now to ur question , keeping everyone alive is important for clerics. How u do this ( CC, Nuking , healing etc) is of personal preference.so no you are not wrong for nuking but You shouldnt expect a wf barb to be really self sufficient, (not saying they cant be) you should heal at least the barb. Like i said wf wiz shouldnt need a divine to nanny for them , thats the whole point isnt it?

Yes that is my point really, the one who complained was the WF wizard. Dude, he has a lot of SP to heal himself. I am also keeping the WF barb alive.

[hcarr]

**Should of discussed it first with the party members. Just don't assume.**

On my wf wiz I watch and try to heal myself as much as possible mainly because I do stupid things and take alot more damage than I should. I do try to help out with other wf in party by topping them off and hitting the with a reconstruct but I dont look to be 100% responsible for other wf in the party unless asked to do so. Its a different mindset for me to pay that much closer attention to the red bars than the mobs on the screen. Sometimes I even get tunnel vision on what im trying to do on my caster that I greatly appreciate being bailed out by the divine healer. Many players go arcane caster because the dont want to heal or look to heal or be responsible for others in the party but like spells.

[arjiwan]

**Should of discussed it first with the party members. Just don't assume.**

On my wf wiz I watch and try to heal myself as much as possible mainly because I do stupid things and take alot more damage than I should. I do try to help out with other wf in party by topping them off and hitting the with a reconstruct but I dont look to be 100% responsible for other wf in the party unless asked to do so. Its a different mindset for me to pay that much closer attention to the red bars than the mobs on the screen. Sometimes I even get tunnel vision on what im trying to do on my caster that I greatly appreciate being bailed out by the divine healer. Many players go arcane caster because the dont want to heal or look to heal or be responsible for others in the party but like spells.

I did not assume to give a "no heal to warforged". I was combat healing them, and keeping them alive. 6 party members, I can heal all of them if they are all fleshies. But with an arcane warforged with no healer's friend? Do I need to discuss up front with the party members, "hey arcane warforged, heal yourself from time to time ok?".

[foose07]

Well here's what I think being a WF Wizard. I never expect to get healed as I'm fully self sufficient, and if there's another WF in the party regardless of any class that needs repair, I would just cast it. I think if you wanna be a WF meele you should at least bring Repair Pots and have to have healer's friend.

In your situation I would just heal the tank, about the wizard? Just when it is required, when they get knocked down or stunned.

[Senshock]

...... I am not your nanny........

Just say something like this upfront when joining the party perhaps...? Clerics are stereotyped into healers only, so might help to clarify your play style especially to other divine/arcane WF

[Zharfie]

most (inexperienced) WF wizards I've ran with have no idea how to heal others, and sometimes even themselves...

I can understand not healing others a lot, I did play a (non-WF, but still) wizard for almost a year and I healed a WF tank maybe twice in that time... I was certainly not good at it, being my first healing experiences ever...

I wouldn't expect the WF wizards to even notice the WF tanks around unless asked to help with healing them too. On a low/mid level cleric it's difficult to heal the WF that are not your friends.

There are times when even a WF wizard needs help healing himself but those are relatively rare and I'd say something has usually gone very much wrong if that is the case.

Healing others requires a different kind of mindset that even a lot of level 20 clerics don't have. It took me a while to develop and I still find playing my healbot really boring, I much more prefer my much more active melee favoured soul but I can still keep an eye on others

[bryanmeerkat]

If the WF wizard is dying with a blue bar its because they are a terrible player , the barb id keep an eye on whilst strafing my bladebarrier but a WF wizard that dies only has himself to blame .

[Hihiirokane]

1. A WF Wiz that cannot self heal almost defeats the purpose of taking WF above a race like Human or Drow (who have the advantage of the extra INT/CHA). In other words; those are poorly built or poorly played characters, who either need advise or a kick in the butt.

2. Every, yes every class should have and bring some sort of self-healing. Even if only for certain 'what-if' situations. If they don't, I personally have a lot of trouble with people who blame the cleric for not keeping them topped.

3. That said, healing in most DDO quests falls upon the healer only/mostly during combat situations. Outside of combat, people can and/or should (depends on how you want to play this game ofc) be able to top themselves off.

Conclusion: good communication always helps alot: tell your group members what you expect from them. If they continue to fail, safe to conclude they lack knowledge or skill and you are not to blame for their deaths.

[bigolbear]

The barb in this case deserves and needed your attention as well as the attention of the wf arcane.

The WF arcane should have been repairing them selves.

many folks forget that arcanes dont always fully spec for repair spells, even some wf casters. Add to that that empower and maximise dont effect reconstruct and the strange fact is that a cleric (especialy RS) can usualy land bigger heals on a warforge than a fully repair specced arcane.

I have played 2 clerics, a fvs and 2 wf arcanes among many other chars and my observations on these points are that many clerics get agnsty when they see a red bar drop below 50%. On my wf arcanes I tend to play it close to the line because with quickened reconstruct i can. There have been more than a few times when clerics will heal my arcanes before i would choose to - its not that im not watching my health its that I only want to cast that reconstruct when i need to.

On my clerics my general rule when dealing with warforge meles is heal them and use big heals. when dealing with wf arcanes they get my dv but wont get any heals unless they ask or they are incapacitated in some way (tripped, held etc)

When dealing with a group that contains both wf arcanes and wf meles unless the wf arcane states explicitely that they want to repair the meles I will folow my general rules.

The only real exception to this is in quests where the arcanes spells are much more effective then the clerics - such as undead heavy quests. in those circumstances its beter to heal the caster to save them mana, but let them know and always discuss tactics first.

[Lifeblood]

Sometimes the two WFs incaps or dies, then I rez them, pop one heal scroll but not healing them to full.

heal or get off the pot....you asked to be a healer. that is the role you took in the party..unless you discuss otherwise with your party members you are the primary healer

if you are not a healer and prefer to fight either with wep or spells you need to pass that information on to your party members also ... play the way you want but understand when you join a grp or start a group as a cleric YOU are the healer unless stated otherwise

[bryanmeerkat]

heal or get off the pot....you asked to be a healer. that is the role you took in the party..unless you discuss otherwise with your party members you are the primary healer

if you are not a healer and prefer to fight either with wep or spells you need to pass that information on to your party members also ... play the way you want but understand when you join a grp or start a group as a cleric YOU are the healer unless stated otherwise

When you roll a mage are you automatically the healer for all warforged ?

[Lifeblood]

When you roll a mage are you automatically the healer for all warforged ?

*** is this..clerics only heal fleshies and only wizs heal wf....not going to get far with that attitude. a good cleric can heal any class/race once they get the heal spell/scroll

The Op took a role in a grp as a healer and then decided to do ha half assed job in healing the wf

unless you state otherwise when you join a grp as a healer you freaking heal..i don't care if your comet fall and bb can clear the room of mobs ...personally if you cant do both you need to reroll

Clerics are very strong characters to play and to decide you don't like to heal wf (i personally cant stand them) or don't feel its your job because there is an arcane in the grp is bull schlacka

instead of the op asking the wiz to help out with heals on the wf...he comes here and asks if he is wrong for not healing the wf....I say yes you are wrong for not healing them because you did not state otherwise at the beginning of the quest


yes wf wiz can heal themselves and should the op should have asked why he was not doing so

even so the wf barb is OPs responsibility unless other wise stated

[arjiwan]

*Snip*

Are you really reading my comments and all of others comments? Or you are just thinking about your own opinion?

Half-assed job? Also where did you get the idea that I did not heal the WF?

I have a feeling you won't read or understand this, but here is my argument, how can you keep up keeping alive the WF that has no Healers Friend where all of your Light/Moderate/Serious/Crit Cure and Heal is on cooldown and cannot keep up with the heal because the WF is taking MORE damage than they can take Heal and scroll/wand whipping? Should I only focus on the WF's when also the fleshies are taking a hit? What I'm saying is, the arcane WF can heal himself and when all hell breaks loose, what? Wait for the half-assed cleric to heal you?

[Malison]

I have a feeling you won't read or understand this, but here is my argument, how can you keep up keeping alive the WF that has no Healers Friend where all of your Light/Moderate/Serious/Crit Cure and Heal is on cooldown and cannot keep up with the heal because the WF is taking MORE damage than they can take Heal and scroll/wand whipping?

If a party that level is taking more damage than you can heal with Heal and one mass cure, either they're doing something wrong or you're not wearing devotion/potency. That's really all there is to it. If the warforged is the Healer's Friend, the healer should not feel obligated to be the warforged's friend.

[Lifeblood]

Are you really reading my comments and all of others comments? Or you are just thinking about your own opinion?

Half-assed job? Also where did you get the idea that I did not heal the WF?

I have a feeling you won't read or understand this, but here is my argument, how can you keep up keeping alive the WF that has no Healers Friend where all of your Light/Moderate/Serious/Crit Cure and Heal is on cooldown and cannot keep up with the heal because the WF is taking MORE damage than they can take Heal and scroll/wand whipping? Should I only focus on the WF's when also the fleshies are taking a hit? What I'm saying is, the arcane WF can heal himself and when all hell breaks loose, what? Wait for the half-assed cleric to heal you?

from your own words

.
Sometimes the two WFs incaps or dies, then I rez them, pop one heal scroll but not healing them to full.

Now I am thinking, am I wrong for not healing the WFs and assuming (and learned from the forums and my own realization) that they should heal themselves because they have the means. I am not asking them to be 100% self-sufficient but at least kinda take care of themselves from time to time.

you made it obvious that the arcane was not healing the other wf..so you ask them to do so if they wont or cannot it falls to you

tossing a res and then only partially healing them is considered a half-ass job

as for the wf wiz i would probably have let them die they should be taking care of themselves
even so is the group better off having them dead?

if all your spells are on timer and your heal scroll also...there are more issues with the group than the wf not having healing amp

[PopeJual]

even so the wf barb is OPs responsibility unless other wise stated

The OP should have put forth a reasonable effort to keep the WF Barb standing and effective in the fight, but I believe that he said that he did actually put some effort into that task. That said, the WF Barb is the WF Barb's responsibility. This is a team game, but everyone is responsible for their own actions and the OP does deserves neither the credit nor the blame for the party's success in the quest.

As long as the healers are making a good faith effort to keep the party as a whole standing through the fights, then I have no problem with them. That does not mean that the healers need to keep every character alive through every fight. If one character is being a mana sponge, then sometimes it's more effective to just let them fall.

The only complaint that I would have in that party is that the OP should have said something in party chat when he saw that there was a problem. On more than one occasion, I've told a party member, "Hey, I noticed that you have no Healer's Friend enhancements and you're sucking down my blue bar like a sailor sucks down tequila on shore leave, so I'm going to have to cut you off soon." I'm pleased/impressed that he continued to res and throw Heal scrolls at the Barbarian who couldn't be bothered to get any healing amp.

[arjiwan]

The OP should have put forth a reasonable effort to keep the WF Barb standing and effective in the fight, but I believe that he said that he did actually put some effort into that task. That said, the WF Barb is the WF Barb's responsibility. This is a team game, but everyone is responsible for their own actions and the OP does deserves neither the credit nor the blame for the party's success in the quest.

As long as the healers are making a good faith effort to keep the party as a whole standing through the fights, then I have no problem with them. That does not mean that the healers need to keep every character alive through every fight. If one character is being a mana sponge, then sometimes it's more effective to just let them fall.

The only complaint that I would have in that party is that the OP should have said something in party chat when he saw that there was a problem. On more than one occasion, I've told a party member, "Hey, I noticed that you have no Healer's Friend enhancements and you're sucking down my blue bar like a sailor sucks down tequila on shore leave, so I'm going to have to cut you off soon." I'm pleased/impressed that he continued to res and throw Heal scrolls at the Barbarian who couldn't be bothered to get any healing amp.

Thanks for this. I agree, I don't want to get any credit really or deserve any. Maybe I should have emphasized the comment of the Arcane WF "too bad the Cleric wants to be a wizard instead of healing". The reason I made this post in the first place. Honestly, if a fleshie toon told me this, I would re-think my play-style and improve myself based on their expectations. But coming from an arcane WF that has little healing amplification?

By the way, I really did not complain that they are mana/resources sponges. It is just that what ticked me is the comment of the WF...