PVP pecking order, yes or no?

[Majere_Aumar]

I would disagree strongly with shintao being first. I would put them after virtuoso as Song of Capering and Kukan Do are at best equal in terms of getting off before the other. Neither work against Pale Masters, and the touch attack is just that, touch, so all things being equal, getting off a Tomb of Jade before being pws is slim.

Are you sure Kukan-do doesn't work on PM? I did not know that about tomb of jade .... if you are correct, that would have to put the pm at the top.

[AzraelDB]

Are you sure Kukan-do doesn't work on PM? I did not know that about tomb of jade .... if you are correct, that would have to put the pm at the top.

Coming from a Shintao Monk: Kukan-Do does not work against PMs. The idiot will keep sending them until you squelch.

[sephiroth1084]

Does Kukan-do work on players? I thought it only affected tainted creatures. See I should have read more, thought the above doesn't directly answer my question.

[Majere_Aumar]

Does Kukan-do work on players? I thought it only affected tainted creatures. See I should have read more, thought the above doesn't directly answer my question.

Yes it does, and quite effectively. It doesn't work on pm's in wraith or lich mode.

[Fundamental]

(pws/dance is not pvp..)

That's not true and it's a stupid stupid comment.
Stun and dance actually creates the best battles PvP has to offer and the most astounding wins with 1 Hp when someone has danced you and isn't paying attention, or the stun.

There is no rule book on PvP for that matter.
Now as far as monk being on Nr.1, hmmm....

Palemasters FTW. + Ion Stone.
Monk can stun but not get through all the guards when he melee's.
FvS's rule PvP? You should come to Ghallanda, we show you how it's done.

Give me a few good FvS's or clerics against a skillfull necro with a pale.
Their all f'd, evasion no evasion. And I got a full fvs myself their awesome.
In the end the player makes the build and it's the player that makes the skill.
You can have a completionist WF Caster still being pwned by a human sorcerer.

As for the Shintoa monk being on Nr.1, it's not true, entirely.
Monk is a melee build.
A caster can take out 4,5,6 people in one lighting spell. Hitting for +1000 damage. A monk can never equal that amount of firepower that fast, from range.
On Ghallanda we got a few monks, also have a pale, uses the stun and I rip him apart on my Necro, 9/10.
As with any other FvS, Cleric pale or not, = dead.

So... the list should have some 'slight rethinking' in my opinion.

After

[hityawithastick]

There is a certain Clonk in there who seems to know how to get rid of Ioun Stones pretty quick.... Even "The Best" can't stand up to him under the right circumstances... >.>

I solo'd that quest. :P

[heyytoi]

(pws/dance is not pvp..)

That's not true and it's a stupid stupid comment.
Stun and dance actually creates the best battles PvP has to offer and the most astounding wins with 1 Hp when someone has danced you and isn't paying attention, or the stun.

There is no rule book on PvP for that matter.
Now as far as monk being on Nr.1, hmmm....

Palemasters FTW. + Ion Stone.
Monk can stun but not get through all the guards when he melee's.
FvS's rule PvP? You should come to Ghallanda, we show you how it's done.

Give me a few good FvS's or clerics against a skillfull necro with a pale.
Their all f'd, evasion no evasion. And I got a full fvs myself their awesome.
In the end the player makes the build and it's the player that makes the skill.
You can have a completionist WF Caster still being pwned by a human sorcerer.

As for the Shintoa monk being on Nr.1, it's not true, entirely.
Monk is a melee build.
A caster can take out 4,5,6 people in one lighting spell. Hitting for +1000 damage. A monk can never equal that amount of firepower that fast, from range.
On Ghallanda we got a few monks, also have a pale, uses the stun and I rip him apart on my Necro, 9/10.
As with any other FvS, Cleric pale or not, = dead.

So... the list should have some 'slight rethinking' in my opinion.

After

AH! fool

whats the point of doing pvp when all you have to do is dance and nuke?

If this is your 'skilled way' of winning a fight, than i hope you stay on ghallanda

[Karell]

Don't get me wrong, they are pretty powerful. Especially when they change forms, add one of their shrouds, and become immune to a lot of stuff. But as much as it is their strength, that shroud becomes a heavy weakness against one class: Paladin.

Now then, this only works against someone in their shroud form. But a Paladins LoH hurts undead casters like this. And honestly, I laugh every time someone in their wraith form challenges me. That ion stone is useless, LoH isn't considered a spell. There is absolutely no save to half the damage. And it doesn't miss. I can use LoH 4 times. And with 18 paladin, and a +7 cha modifier, it hits for 252. Spamming this, in 4 seconds, I've done over 1k damage to a PM in shroud form.

If you come at me without it, yes, I lose the bonus. But that also makes you more vulnerable to those monks and other stuff lurking in the pit.

As I've said before, PM is good. Just when you shroud, watch out for those paladins. They can be pretty merciless to the undead.

[heyytoi]

Don't get me wrong, they are pretty powerful. Especially when they change forms, add one of their shrouds, and become immune to a lot of stuff. But as much as it is their strength, that shroud becomes a heavy weakness against one class: Paladin.

Now then, this only works against someone in their shroud form. But a Paladins LoH hurts undead casters like this. And honestly, I laugh every time someone in their wraith form challenges me. That ion stone is useless, LoH isn't considered a spell. There is absolutely no save to half the damage. And it doesn't miss. I can use LoH 4 times. And with 18 paladin, and a +7 cha modifier, it hits for 252. Spamming this, in 4 seconds, I've done over 1k damage to a PM in shroud form.

If you come at me without it, yes, I lose the bonus. But that also makes you more vulnerable to those monks and other stuff lurking in the pit.

As I've said before, PM is good. Just when you shroud, watch out for those paladins. They can be pretty merciless to the undead.

+1

This is a Huge weakness and im not sure lot of people knew about LOH and PM

Now its clear, PM isnt the pvp winner!!

I vote FvS!

I love you.

[Habreno]

And then I come along and while you are meleeing me you *suddenly* die a mysterious purple death filled with pain. And lots of bones being broken.

Clerics are greatly underestimated in the Pit. We cannot hold any WF, but do not forget that our light spells do double damage to undead, if I remember correctly. And if you are not a PM, we have Harm, Cometfall, plus a whole host of other goodies. I can neg you, then hold you while wielding my pair of heavy picks.
And should you survive a hold, I have death spells, plus my own melee. You can hit your Kukan-do all you want, I would like to see you outdamage my HoTs enough to kill me before your little stun wears off and I heal myself then kill you. I can heal over 60 damage every few seconds; about 19 every other second and 50 every 6th. And that's not something you can remove either, for those who love Break Enchantment.

TBH, Clerics are underrated in PvP. We have so many options nobody realizes. It only gets better the more we play. Monk? Your worst save is probably a fort save. Eat Implosion. Caster? Worst save will also be Fort. Have a Destruction. Melee? Stand still while I hold you and swing my own picks, giving autocrits (once again also stressing the importance of fortification... you will not believe how many melees I see in PvP at L20 having no fort...) to me and killing you quickly. Rangers? Your will will be low, and so will your fort... I can pick either one I want.

Easy as cake.

Yum, cake...


Point is that nobody is a perfect build for PvP. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. That bard in the corner may have an irresistable dance, but there's nothing he can do if I kill him first. That wizard trying to stun and death aura me will have a hard time outdamaging my own aura and outhealing it as well. Plus he will have an even harder time making the saves on Implosion, or Destruction. That Barbarian with that greataxe decides he wants a piece of me for his lunch. I decide he wants to be held and given a taste of his own medicine. That's when that monk puts his Kukan-Do stun on me and kills us both.


Enjoy your PvP.

One last note: I "play fair" when I am played fair with. I do not attack level 8s unless they attack me; 99% are smart enough not to attack a level 20. That level 20 monk that only attacks those who attack him will not be attacked unless he's the only one left. That barbarian running all over the place swinging at everything will eat a hold, encouraging him to stay still and quit attacking, and then will eat my picks AND a hold. The wizard in the corner picking off the Bards who try and make him dance will not get any attacks from me. Heck, I'm not going to be an idiot and kill someone who's indirectly helping me out.


There's a life to PvP, and the people in the arena will play their own way. You have to figure it out and capitalize on it, or join it.

[Xenus_Paradox]

Wait, this game has PVP?

[heyytoi]

Wait, this game has PVP?

Best joke ever. /facepalm

[Bodic]

its more like:

1. first to blind,crit,dance, sap or stun wins
2. you lost

[liltova]

Sorry, the Jacaroma Raid in PvP is very hard to complete, even with a full party...

There is a certain Clonk in there who seems to know how to get rid of Ioun Stones pretty quick.... Even "The Best" can't stand up to him under the right circumstances... >.>

These two..

Shocklore and Xzlon.

Wayy wayy wayy too much drama on the Khyber Server when things come to PvP.

[Elucidus]

I can't tell you how often I see a 4th or 8th level character go down there to see what all the excitement is about only to get wiped by someone two or three times their level. That is just stupid.

Of course, sometimes I just stand at the top and mess with things by healing someone. Just because I can.

[BlackyLigar]

1) Shintao Monk - able to stun anybody instantly with high DC Kukan Do or Tomb of Jade, closes quickly and kills.

i completely disagree. i've yet to meet a monk that can dps a stunned but blocking toon before guards proc and kill said monk. that or the toon survives the attack with little damage to self heal and counter attack.

vitualy all melee is at the bottom of this list as not being able to kill before a proc besides a barbarion. tho, a barb does actualy have to catch u first still far more dangerous than any monk i've seen.

[DDO_User1]

This is my list:

1) Any ranger build with a lit2 bow and ioun stone. This is far and away the most devastating PVP build.

2) Any ranger build that has an ioun stone and a stat damage bow or slayer arrows.

3) WF Sorcerer with Wizard Past Life. The faster casting speed make them superior to wizards.

4) WF Wizard with Wizard Past Life

5) Arcane archer build with no ioun stone

6) Wizard or Sorcerer builds that have PW:S / Ottos

7) Virtuoso Bard. Their song of capering/enthrall is easily countered with a Battered Phiarlan Shield.

8) Melee build that has a stat damaging throwing axe

[Majere_Aumar]

7) Virtuoso Bard. Their song of capering/enthrall is easily countered with a Battered Phiarlan Shield.

The description says it absorbs enchantments "spells", can u confirm it absorbs songs too?

Also, your first 2 choices are bow users, how do they use a shield and a bow at the same time to counter the bard? A bard can dance anyone the very instant they enter the pit and through walls ... are your top 3 choices going to be able to counter that?

[NaturalHazard]

Also; if you're looking for honorable PvP...erm...don't come to Khyber. There's no one but me here with that mindset.

theres honourable pvp?

[NaturalHazard]

speed kills.