My thoughts on 1 Arcane slot shroud groups.

[NaturalHazard]

I obviously hit a nerve with the amount of neg rep I've received for this comment in just the past day. Let me further explain why arcanes don't stack well in Shroud:

Part 1: Trash mobs can be easily soloable by a single arcane with Wail of the Banshee and Finger of Death (even on elite). Multiple Ice Storms don't stack on the portals.

Part 2: Fire elemental is easily soloable by an arcane, even on elite. The earth elemental is easily soloable by an arcane on normal/hard. On elite it's possible to solo, but it's more time efficient to have a melee tag team with the arcane to kill it.

Part 3: N/A.

Part 4: Devil Trash - Only one arcane is needed for disco ball or mass hold monster. Harry - Only one arcane is needed to cast Cloudkill for 20% concealment. Gnolls - One one arcane is needed to kill the 8 channelers.

Part 5: Again, just one arcane is needed for Cloudkill. Chain casting Polar Ray and keeping up Ice Storm, arcanes run out of mana before Harry is dead. It's not optimal to bring multiple of the same class that are going to run out of gas before the fight is over.

You can give me neg rep for my comments, but it's misdirected. I'm simply illustrating the fact that Turbine has failed to create content where arcanes stack well. Please direct your hate and disdain at them, not me. I'm just an observer like the rest of you.

And yes, you can complete Shroud with any composition of competent players (I've completed elite Shroud with 7 arcanes before, but they were all guildies). When it comes to pugs though, quality of player is often a crapshoot. So it's not surprising to have leaders limit classes with known stacking issues, like arcanes. If you find your class filtered out of Shroud LFMs, there's little you can do but start your own Shroud or find a static group of people to play with.

Theres no need but for shroud normal there really shouldnt be a problem with taking more than one arcane or even not taking an arcane?

[DaSawks]

No one can set up a perfect Shroud run. I have run with 7 casters (4 Arcane and 3 Divine) and we had no problems. The best groups can fail if they are not orginized and work together. Team work can over come makeup.

[Sarisa]

I obviously hit a nerve with the amount of neg rep I've received for this comment in just the past day. Let me further explain why arcanes don't stack well in Shroud:

...snip a lot of good stuff...

Your comments are about elite runs, likely with highly skilled and geared people on your server. This thread is about normal PUG runs, where, like you said, quality is a "crapshoot". While your comments are appropriate for elite runs, and are informative, it's not the subject of this thread.

Harry has around 1/3rd the HP on normal than elite. With melee quality being an unknown in PUG's, arcane damage is a lot more steady. 10 1k Polar Rays add up to nearly 10% of Harry's HP on normal, and are easily obtained by even an ungeared caster. The same amount of damage cannot be expected from an ungeared inexperienced melee.

[ulticleo]

I obviously hit a nerve with the amount of neg rep I've received for this comment in just the past day. Let me further explain why arcanes don't stack well in Shroud:

Part 1: ...

Part 2: ...

Part 3: ...

Part 4: ...

Part 5: ...

You can give me neg rep for my comments, but it's misdirected. I'm simply illustrating the fact that Turbine has failed to create content where arcanes stack well. Please direct your hate and disdain at them, not me. I'm just an observer like the rest of you.

And yes, you can complete Shroud with any composition of competent players (I've completed elite Shroud with 7 arcanes before, but they were all guildies). When it comes to pugs though, quality of player is often a crapshoot. So it's not surprising to have leaders limit classes with known stacking issues, like arcanes. If you find your class filtered out of Shroud LFMs, there's little you can do but start your own Shroud or find a static group of people to play with.

captain obvious is... obvious.
anyone with half a brain knows that 1 arcane is "enough". The point is, why do you need to insist on *only* one arcane? as everyone keeps repeating in this thread, it is stupid, pointless, silly, meaningless, etc etc etc

I play on Sarlona, I lead raids. For shroud, tod, vod, hox, I'll take up to 3 arcanes/divines, and 2 bards. after that I kinda close the door, as it's stupid easy to fill DPS spots, and might as well. for reavers, von (not epic), and DQ (not epic), I roll short manned, or whoever hits lfm.

oh, and to reiterate:

If you find your class filtered out of Shroud LFMs, there's little you can do but start your own Shroud or find a static group of people to play with.

Or rather, if you find yourself filtered out of a raid, and you know your stuff, you probably didn't want to ride with those bozos anyway...

[DocBenway]

I was once asked, on my sorcerer, in a loose alliance userchat to be the lone arcane for the last spot in a shroud run. I replied I didn't think I was up to it and got a chorus of "We're sure you can do it!"

I replied "I know I can do it, just don't think I want to."

That said, my 20th run on the same sorc, the wizard DC'd then dropped group only 2 portals into part 1. Finished fine and had no real problems but part 4 was a 3 rounder. Which brings me to the realization that 90% of 1-round part 4s I've been part of... had 3 arcanes in the group setup.

[stoolcannon]

1 good arcane is all that's needed and that's another DPS slot. I'll take 2 when running shrouds if 2 apply quickly enough which is usually the case.

When I want shroud on my wizzy I run one myself.

lol why would someone neg that post? What have I done to anger thee?

[nanobot1994]

This does annoy me, slightly, and it was just yet another reason for me to force myself to make and cap a cleric. If you cant beat em, join em.

captain obvious is... obvious.
anyone with half a brain knows that 1 arcane is "enough". The point is, why do you need to insist on *only* one arcane? as everyone keeps repeating in this thread, it is stupid, pointless, silly, meaningless, etc etc etc

That one arcane will either pull their weight, or just pike. Another DPS will either pull their weight, or fail, but still contribute marginally more than an equally bad arcane. Both have potential to be great, but arcanes apparently have a bigger potential to fail. All melee, regardless of build and skill will contribute damage, not all arcanes know to just dump their SP on harry. Ive seen many just spam mass protect and act as a haste bot, while just staring at harry the other times.

All in all, its the leaders group, and either I agree with his philosophy and join, or I disagree and make my own group. I honestly dont get why people are getting so worked up over this.

[herdisleah]

I tend to argue a bad caster with frost lance and magic missile will outdamage an incompetent DPS without a DR-breaker.

What I hear is people saying theyd rather have a bad dps than any arcane...that DPS characters are idiot-proof.

[stoolcannon]

This does annoy me, slightly, and it was just yet another reason for me to force myself to make and cap a cleric. If you cant beat em, join em.




That one arcane will either pull their weight, or just pike. Another DPS will either pull their weight, or fail, but still contribute marginally more than an equally bad arcane. Both have potential to be great, but arcanes apparently have a bigger potential to fail. All melee, regardless of build and skill will contribute damage, not all arcanes know to just dump their SP on harry. Ive seen many just spam mass protect and act as a haste bot, while just staring at harry the other times.

All in all, its the leaders group, and either I agree with his philosophy and join, or I disagree and make my own group. I honestly dont get why people are getting so worked up over this.

I've got no issues with 2 arcanes, I just never set aside a spot for 2. If I fill with melee first I take melee. That's pretty rare though as there are usually a pretty large number of arcanes chomping at the bit.

[oberon131313]

Nope. Never.

On Ghallanda, we have a strict minimum of 4 arcanes, 5 healers, 2 bards and one token rogue for our shrouds. I think this run took us about 25 minutes due to our gimpy rogue

/signed

[spyderwolf]

Agreed, I've done PUG shrouds with no casters, with too many casters, with no rogues, one healer, short manned, etc... etc... etc...

Not to mention the countless variations for channel/guild shroud runs.

Next I'm going to do an all Muckbane Shroud this weekend... and I'm going to PUG out most of it just because it'll be fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-JtmfihT24

1 upped ya in may 09 the -1 club from deleras shroud run at level 16 . gotta go harder than muckbane :P hehe

[spyderwolf]

All melee, regardless of build and skill will contribute damage

this is false. there are plenty of crappy melees who contribute basically nothing to dps on every server.