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  1. #1
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    Default Trying to understand how to defend against no-miss, no save, 4-5 hit instakill

    This might come across like a complaint, but I am really trying to see what I can do to deal with mobs that dispel [death ward] and then do attacks that seem to never miss, allow no save, and bestow multiple negative levels. Essentially, you get defeated in seconds, with no defense.

    Normally, 99% of the time, you fight fights where things make sense. The enemy does some sort of attack, and you use your AC and saves to try to defend against it. Some form of healing helps as you get damaged. Some fights are harder, some are easier, but they at least make some sort of gaming sense. Even when I run into an unkillable dragon or demon that are utterly level inappropriate (such as with that lvl 13 kobold quest, or in the final Fens quest), I understand that they have a high to-hit and too many hps for me to kill. And those mobs are optional.

    But then there are bosses that do this dispel followed by a no-miss, no save multiple negative level attack, such as a beholder boss or this quell boss I ran into in Temple of Vol. I was lvl 15, doing a lvl 14 adventure, and the quell boss defeated me with no hope of me fighting back or defending myself. There is no other attack type in the game that does anything like this.

    With every other boss, you... fight them. They do their attacks, you try to defend and hurt them, and it might be close, or you might blow them out, or they might defeat you, but they don't simply annihilate you with an attack against which there is no save, that doesn't miss, that kills you in a few hits, and that is spammed quickly by the enemy.

    I understand that there is one item in the game, the silver flame talisman, that you can get to defend yourself, at least against the first 10 levels, if you go through a series of, according to reviews and a bit of experience, highly un-fun quests. But, it seems a bit odd if there are these bosses that just kill you, with no chance of you defending yourself, unless you happen to have one particular item.

    I hope that I am just missing something. Or, have the designers just made obscenely silly bosses for a few of the packs?

    And please don't tell me that it makes it nice and challenging. If that is true, why not have most Bosses just kill you with a no-miss, no-save attack in a few hits? That isn't challenging, it is silly. A challenge includes a possible way to overcome the challenge. And that is what I am asking about in this post. Is this type of boss merely a "challenge" that I haven't realized how to overcome yet, or are they just utterly unbeatable unless you have a zillion party members beating on them? I tend to like to play solo.

    Also, I can solo other quests that supposed require a "balanced party" with little problem, such as the Wizard's tomb in the desert sands, and countless others. It is just this one type of mob that seems to stop me in my tracks, and I can't even imagine a reasonable way to defend myself. (I'm playing a halfling monk.)

    Edit: I just had a thought, after I wrote this, that at least a hireling cleric who could cast restoration might be quite helpful. It still seems over-the-top silly to have bosses that have this sort of no-miss, no-save, death in a few hits, attack.
    Last edited by wyndzen; 01-04-2011 at 07:05 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyndzen View Post
    This might come across like a complaint, but I am really trying to see what I can do to deal with mobs that dispel [death ward] and then do attacks that seem to never miss, allow no save, and bestow multiple negative levels. Essentially, you get defeated in seconds, with no defense.

    Normally, 99% of the time, you fight fights where things make sense. The enemy does some sort of attack, and you use your AC and saves to try to defend against it. Some form of healing helps as you get damaged. Some fights are harder, some are easier, but they at least make some sort of gaming sense. Even when I run into an unkillable dragon or demon that are utterly level inappropriate (such as with that lvl 13 kobold quest, or in the final Fens quest), I understand that they have a high to-hit and too many hps for me to kill. And those mobs are optional.

    But then there are bosses that do this dispel followed by a no-miss, no save multiple negative level attack, such as a beholder boss or this quell boss I ran into in Temple of Vol. I was lvl 15, doing a lvl 14 adventure, and the quell boss defeated me with no hope of me fighting back or defending myself. There is no other attack type in the game that does anything like this.

    With every other boss, you... fight them. They do their attacks, you try to defend and hurt them, and it might be close, or you might blow them out, or they might defeat you, but they don't simply annihilate you with an attack against which there is no save, that doesn't miss, that kills you in a few hits, and that is spammed quickly by the enemy.

    I understand that there is one item in the game, the silver flame talisman, that you can get to defend yourself, at least against the first 10 levels, if you go through a series of, according to reviews and a bit of experience, highly un-fun quests. But, it seems a bit odd if there are these bosses that just kill you, with no chance of you defending yourself, unless you happen to have one particular item.

    I hope that I am just missing something. Or, have the designers just made obscenely silly bosses for a few of the packs?

    And please don't tell me that it makes it nice and challenging. If that is true, why not have most Bosses just kill you with a no-miss, no-save attack in a few hits? That isn't challenging, it is silly. A challenge includes a possible way to overcome the challenge. And that is what I am asking about in this post. Is this type of boss merely a "challenge" that I haven't realized how to overcome yet, or are they just utterly unbeatable unless you have a zillion party members beating on them? I tend to like to play solo.

    Also, I can solo other quests that supposed require a "balanced party" with little problem, such as the Wizard's tomb in the desert sands, and countless others. It is just this one type of mob that seems to stop me in my tracks, and I can't even imagine a reasonable way to defend myself. (I'm playing a halfling monk.)
    Just get the silver flame talisman ( 10 charges are enough for almost every encounter) or bring a hireling with death ward and restoration or you can roll a wf and be immune to negative levels
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  3. #3
    The Hatchery Nospheratus's Avatar
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    The charges are not per neg level, are per negative energy spell/effect. Such as, enervation, energy drain, inflict <xyz> wounds, harm, the skeleton mage negative energy aura (this is actually what drains the charges faster).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nospheratus View Post
    The charges are not per neg level, are per negative energy spell/effect. Such as, enervation, energy drain, inflict <xyz> wounds, harm, the skeleton mage negative energy aura (this is actually what drains the charges faster).
    Thanks, Nos. Good to know that, at least. Still, I am left needing one obscure item, or else I just insta-die as soon as a quest designer decides to make that sort of mob. Seems like overwhelming common sense to me that such a design choice is unfun. And, remember, if somebody tells me that it makes things "challenging," then why not have all bosses kill you in 3-4 hits, no miss, no save, unless you happen to possess one particular item?

    Then everybody, all the time, could have the great fun of dying, with no chance of coming close to winning, and then hunting down the one item they need, and then doing each new quest.

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    Actually, you should just run circles around beholders, if you have no death ward/absorption/ways to restore yourself, etc. Stay away from their front eyebeams and hope to drop them before they drop you.

    (Also the silver flame talisman isn't obscure. It's pretty much an item that everyone needs, and has, barring f2p/premium people without the pack(s)).

    There are also these beholder absorption consumables Turbine put in the DDO store, and a couple of much rarer in game drops (hah! dropping from quests with many beholders of course) that help.

    Your first, and likely first half dozen, beholders are a big shock, but they're meant to be big shocks. There are quite a few quests in this game that drop you into situations where you need to adapt to new tactics (and generally this is a good thing). It does get better though after a few tries.
    Last edited by locus; 01-04-2011 at 07:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by locus View Post
    Actually, you should just run circles around beholders, if you have no death ward/absorption/ways to restore yourself, etc. Stay away from their front eyebeams and hope to drop them before they drop you.

    (Also the silver flame talisman isn't obscure. It's pretty much an item that everyone needs, and has, barring f2p/premium people without the pack(s)).

    There are also these beholder absorption consumables Turbine put in the DDO store, and a couple of much rarer in game drops (hah! dropping from quests with many beholders of course) that help.

    Your first, and likely first half dozen, beholders are a big shock, but they're meant to be big shocks. There are quite a few quests in this game that drop you into situations where you need to adapt to new tactics (and generally this is a good thing). It does get better though after a few tries.
    This is very helpful, but I also have a couple of objections.

    Part of my original point was that there AREN'T any tactics that defend against attacks that are no-miss, no-save, no-heal, and kill in a few hits. I did state up front that I realized that I could have had one particular item. It seems to me that auto-killing a person for not owning one particular item is bad quest design. Other than maybe having a hireling with restoration and having that hireling not die, I basically can't think of a way to defend.

    Surely, it is reasonable, and not bad tactics, to enter a dungeon and not summon a hireling with restoration, or to not have one particular item. Of course, I understand, now that I died, that I need that one particular item (or be a warforged) to have any chance of living. But that just seems crazy to me. At least, it seems that this is basically the only thing that auto-kills you this way in solo DDO, provided that you play a halfling monk in the first place. Although maybe they exist, I can't really think of any other type of char that can generally solo adventures and expect not to die regularly. Maybe a 9th lvl and higher halfling ranger, or a hybrid char that has evasion and healing.

    Regarding beholders, heh, yeah, the first was a shock. Then I fought them with a party of 3, and it was no problem. Then we ran into a beholder boss and died immediately, same story: dispel, negative levels, no miss, no save, no heal.

    Of course, dark path monks have their own version of super-crazy madness, doing 500!! damage with 1 attack, possibly the most entertaining thing I've ever done in a game, but it doesn't work on undead, and in this case it was a boss undead quell that got me.

  7. #7
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by locus View Post

    (Also the silver flame talisman isn't obscure. It's pretty much an item that everyone needs, and has, barring f2p/premium people without the pack(s)).
    It is obscure. You have no way to know the item even exists unless you look in the definitive loot thread or happen to be researching the necro pack.

    And it is not an item that everyone has. I don't, because I did Necro 1, 2 and part of 3 once about 9 months ago, before deciding not only could I not bear them, but I couldn't face ever doing them again unless someone's going to let me go AFK at the door while they complete it. Since I'd never ask someone to do that for me, I haven't done them again. Had a stab at some of the necro 4 quests because even I can see the value in the minos... but I can't say I'm ever going to grind out those taps again because that was very dull and took about half a dozen nights, over and over again hitting the same four rares... ugh. Its grindage purgatory (so not looking forward to Greensteel grindage hell).

    However.

    OP, I don't have any advice on that quest, I haven't done it. I can tell you that something which absorbs negative energy, negative energy spells, or just spells generally is your best friend in those sorts of circumstances.

    Try getting hold of the Mantle of the Worldshaper from the threnal pack. Its a L9-11 quest pack, regardless of your level, as a monk you'll probably need help for eastern pt 3. But the mantle is a guaranteed chain reward, absorbs 5 spells on a full charge and grants True Seeing if you also have Voice of the Master equipped. (it only regens 1 charge/rest however, so its worth spending some time in a tavern before each quest to charge it).

    Yes, its another obscure item you didn't know about - but its a lot easier and quicker to get hold of than the silver flame talisman even if its not as effective against your specific problem.

    You are correct though - DDO does tend to spring these nasty surprises on you. You learn by wiping here, then research gearing up and redoing. This is fine provided you aren't permadeathing for the first time...

    TL; DR -

    1. Deathblock
    2. Heavy Fortification
    3. Resto pots or a cleric hireling/group member
    4. Item of spell absorption of some kind
    6.???
    7. Profit.
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  8. #8
    The Hatchery Nospheratus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyndzen View Post
    Thanks, Nos. Good to know that, at least. Still, I am left needing one obscure item, or else I just insta-die as soon as a quest designer decides to make that sort of mob. Seems like overwhelming common sense to me that such a design choice is unfun. And, remember, if somebody tells me that it makes things "challenging," then why not have all bosses kill you in 3-4 hits, no miss, no save, unless you happen to possess one particular item?

    Then everybody, all the time, could have the great fun of dying, with no chance of coming close to winning, and then hunting down the one item they need, and then doing each new quest.
    Well, I believe it's uncommon for a quell to cast dispel followed by enervation AND before it's dead. Some named quells can be dangerous though. I think you were just unlucky in that one and in vol those 3 quells at the same time may be very annoying if you don't kill them fast enough.


    Still related but just as a side note, when you go into a quest it's easy to understand what kind of mobs you will encounter. If you know there will be undead cast DW or use a clickie. Always carry some utility pots like lesser restoration, remove curse and if you can use them, restoration scrolls... Or you can always take a cleric hireling with you.
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  9. #9
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    Thanks, Nos.

    One of the quells was red-named. Normal quells are no problem. Death ward was dispelled. Monks can't really use any restoration items that restore negative levels, and even if they could, the quell would just recast it again in seconds. Sure, I knew that, in general, there were undead in the temple, but I couldn't know that I could jump down a pit and, as was the subject of my initial post, get hit with spammed no-miss, no-save, un-healable attacks that kill in a few hits.

  10. #10
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    I feel your pain! In fact I also hate to die from stacking neg levels and it happend to me more than once.

    As already mentioned, restoration scrolls help to remove the neg levels after an encounter (thats if your still alive), you just need some UMD to use them. Hireling clerics don't cast restoration automatically and there are very few who actually have restoration as a clickable ability.

    Besides the Silver Flame Talisman which can be obtained in the necro series, there is also the Mantle of the Worldshaper which can absorb five spells and is a guaranteed end reward from the Threnal pack. Furthermore, for fighting beholders, you can obtain Beholder Optic Nerves from the F2P Invaders! quest (where you ironically have to fight several beholders to get this item in the end).



    Considering the Silver Flame Talisman - for Tier 2 (Deathblock and 5 charges absorption) it is sufficient to do the Shadow Crypt twice (usually there are powerleveling groups who XP farm this quest with an opener) and to upgrade the Talisman each time at the altar. Since the shadow crypt can be run in less than 20 minutes with a good guide, you could get the talisman with a 90 min guest pass, as long as someone who is flagged opens the quest for your group.

    Otherwise there is always the option of

    a) grouping

    b) not running these quests (I personally don't like to solo the necro 4 quests)

    Cheers

    Baloran

  11. #11
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    Tactics pure tactics,

    First rule of thumb is deathblock make sure you have that on anyone and heavy fortification, this will prevent finger of death, slay living and other insta kill effects and make sure you won't be hit by criticals.

    Then play your only strengths vs your target, I am not sure what you are but remember beholders can easily be paralyzed, they can easily be stunned, they can easily be finger of deathed, thier saves in general are low. But quells are a different kettle of fish..

    The best way to deal with these are to kill them before they can see you, take too long they block your healing rip apart your spells and then bombard you with arcane and evil divine magic. They do have low hit points so undead bane, holy, pure good will rip them apart, but nothing, nothing at all will take them apart faster than a good firewall.

    If you don't have these items or these skills then you need to work with people who do, someone with a high fortitude save distracts the quell while you beat on him, they dont have much hp, but they can kill you fast so much faster and move hard.

    Good luck, they aren't the worse foe you will face.
    Last edited by SiliconShadow; 01-04-2011 at 08:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconShadow View Post
    Tactics pure tactics,

    First rule of thumb is deathblock make sure you have that on anyone and heavy fortification, this will prevent finger of death, slay living and other insta kill effects and make sure you won't be hit by criticals.

    Then play your only strengths vs your target, I am not sure what you are but remember beholders can easily be paralyzed, they can easily be stunned, they can easily be finger of deathed, thier saves in general are low. But quells are a different kettle of fish..

    The best way to deal with these are to kill them before they can see you, take too long they block your healing rip apart your spells and then bombard you with arcane and evil divine magic. They do have low hit points so undead bane, holy, pure good will rip them apart, but nothing, nothing at all will take them apart faster than a good firewall.

    If you don't have these items or these skills then you need to work with people who do, someone with a high fortitude save distracts the quell while you beat on him, they dont have much hp, but they can kill you fast so much faster and move hard.

    Good luck, they aren't the worse foe you will face.
    Good post. Actually - heh - this red-named quell was about 10X harder than any mob I've ever faced that wasn't optional. I realize that raid bosses are probably un-soloable, but this was just a non-raid adventure.

    I did have deathblock, I did have a +5 holy lesser undead bane item. It is perhaps true that if I sneaked immediately following defeating the clay golems, then maybe I could have had an advantage.

    Actually, I just now remembering that I _did_ have a tactic available to me, that I totally forgot in the heat of the moment! I had 4 heals from dragonmarks! I'll bet that I could have actually won that fight with 150 pt pos energy attacks on that quell! Silly me. You see, discussing stuff like this did help me realize what I was missing. Thanks, all. I wonder if there are any other tactics that I was missing.

    I still think that the whole dispel, no-miss, no-save, no-heal negative level spam is a bit over the top for bosses to do. Normal mobs, you can at least kill them before the neg levels pile up too high, but bosses have so many hps that neg level attacks, and remember I am talking about no-miss, no-save attacks, pile up too fast for you to kill them in time.

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    It seems that there is a sort of gameplay philosophy that one must accept to enjoy DDO adventures, which is that it is perfectly acceptable for the "DM" (designer) to make quests that are auto-death to somebody who doesn't know ahead of time exactly the one or two ways to beat an otherwise unbeatable boss, or, as a different example, a lvl 4 char who doesn't have a way to have protection vs acid when several trogs all cast melf acid arrow on him simultaneously?

    I really like DDO in general, especially the terrific character development, but in my DnD preference, I would never play DnD with a DM who put my char in situations that resulted in unavoidable death... unless I had some specific obscure item.

    It seems like "proper preparation" in DDO often is assumed to consist of heading into an adventure with a strong char and smart prep, dying horribly to some cheesy, way-overpowered monster trick, then getting just the right stuff, now that you already know what is in the adventure.

    It just strikes me as so very cheesy that I apparently need to have a specific hireling or one particular obscure item for every single adventure, if I want to survive these whammies.

    Note that your advice was, for example, to play a warforged to be immune to level drain. I totally appreciate you responding, but notice what that advice implies. Before I go into a new adventure, should I delete my current halfling char and make a warforged? Obviously not. And that illustrates my point. Imagine a point in a quest where it says, "you are now dead, no save, because you are not a warforged." Then somebody advises me, "well, to do that quest, you should be a warforged, not a halfling. Everybody else dies instantly." Isn't that obviously bad, unfun quest design?

  14. #14
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyndzen View Post
    It seems that there is a sort of gameplay philosophy that one must accept to enjoy DDO adventures, which is that it is perfectly acceptable for the "DM" (designer) to make quests that are auto-death to somebody who doesn't know ahead of time exactly the one or two ways to beat an otherwise unbeatable boss, or, as a different example, a lvl 4 char who doesn't have a way to have protection vs acid when several trogs all cast melf acid arrow on him simultaneously?
    I never played PnP, but from my understanding this is a very traditional thing for a DM to do. The DM's role is to challenge the players by forcing them to leverage their strengths to overcome their weaknesses. Otherwise, the DM is nothing but a glorified narrator.

    /saving throw against DM rage (fail)
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    What source did you get your Deathward buff from? Visors of the Death Render, hireling?

    (Greater) Dispel Magic make checks against the caster level of the buff, so you want your Deathward to come from the highest level source possible. They can still get lucky and knock it off of you, but you have a higher chance of keeping it. Visor of the Death Render's Deathward is cast at CL 7, so it's really easy for a CR14 or 16 mob to knock off of you.

    Having run Temple of Vol at least 60 times, getting dispelled and then having enervate cast immediately isn't a common occurrence.

    Also, that boss does not move around very much. You can park a divine hireling on the back side of the pillar away from him, and then run back behind it if needed. Usually you'll get several seconds to try to recover before he floats around to an area that he can cast on you again.

    The easiest way to take him out, if you choose to not group for the quest, is not to use a divine hireling, but use an arcane hireling with Firewall, while you hide behind the pillar. He'll usually not move out of the firewall.

    Even with deathward, expect to use a lot of lesser restoration potions. There are many, many vampires and shadows in this dungeon who like to cause stat damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    What source did you get your Deathward buff from? Visors of the Death Render, hireling?

    (Greater) Dispel Magic make checks against the caster level of the buff, so you want your Deathward to come from the highest level source possible. They can still get lucky and knock it off of you, but you have a higher chance of keeping it. Visor of the Death Render's Deathward is cast at CL 7, so it's really easy for a CR14 or 16 mob to knock off of you.

    Having run Temple of Vol at least 60 times, getting dispelled and then having enervate cast immediately isn't a common occurrence.

    Also, that boss does not move around very much. You can park a divine hireling on the back side of the pillar away from him, and then run back behind it if needed. Usually you'll get several seconds to try to recover before he floats around to an area that he can cast on you again.

    The easiest way to take him out, if you choose to not group for the quest, is not to use a divine hireling, but use an arcane hireling with Firewall, while you hide behind the pillar. He'll usually not move out of the firewall.

    Even with deathward, expect to use a lot of lesser restoration potions. There are many, many vampires and shadows in this dungeon who like to cause stat damage.
    Very informative, thanks. I think that, if I am to play DDO long term, I just need to reconcile to the idea of often needing foreknowledge of many quests in order to beat them without dying. 9 in 10 times, you don't need foreknowlege (with a halfling monk, at least), but 1 in 10, you just have to know what is coming up. You just have to know which hireling to have, where to position that hireling, which spell to have it cast, etc.

    I'm glad I did this post. It opened my eyes to various other tactics (amidst several people telling me to use deathblock, which doesn't help against this issue, or to just try to avoid having rays hit me somehow), and it helped me realize, on my own, that I possibly could have won the fight if I had just used my healing dragonmarks to damage the Quell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZgreentea View Post
    I never played PnP, but from my understanding this is a very traditional thing for a DM to do. The DM's role is to challenge the players by forcing them to leverage their strengths to overcome their weaknesses. Otherwise, the DM is nothing but a glorified narrator.

    /saving throw against DM rage (fail)
    Let's say that you are DM'ing in PnP, and your friend is the player, playing solo.

    You say, "there is only one way to go, you need to jump down into a room down a hole, or else you can stand there and do nothing."

    Your friend, the player, jumps down. You say, "ok, there is an undead monster. It casts dispel on you. Roll % dice. If you roll a 1, you keep your death ward. If you roll 2-100, you lose it. Ok, you lose it. Now the monster casts another spell. No, it cannot miss you. No, you don't get a save. You lose 4 levels."

    "What do you do? Ah, you attack? You hit a few times. It is down to only 90% of its hps. Now it goes. It again casts a spell. It automatically hits, and you get no save. You lose 3 levels."

    You try to run? Oh, you can't. The room has no exits, sorry. You attack? You miss, because of all those negative levels. Now it is his turn. He makes you lose another 3 levels. Shall we continue?"

    Heh. That actually isn't how PnP goes. There certainly are DM's who enjoy killing players and going on powertrips, but those are people with psychological issues, and nobody likes to play with them for long, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyndzen View Post
    Let's say that you are DM'ing in PnP, and your friend is the player, playing solo.

    You say, "there is only one way to go, you need to jump down into a room down a hole, or else you can stand there and do nothing."

    Your friend, the player, jumps down. You say, "ok, there is an undead monster. It casts dispel on you. Roll % dice. If you roll a 1, you keep your death ward. If you roll 2-100, you lose it. Ok, you lose it. Now the monster casts another spell. No, it cannot miss you. No, you don't get a save. You lose 4 levels."

    "What do you do? Ah, you attack? You hit a few times. It is down to only 90% of its hps. Now it goes. It again casts a spell. It automatically hits, and you get no save. You lose 3 levels."

    You try to run? Oh, you can't. The room has no exits, sorry. You attack? You miss, because of all those negative levels. Now it is his turn. He makes you lose another 3 levels. Shall we continue?"

    Heh. That actually isn't how PnP goes. There certainly are DM's who enjoy killing players and going on powertrips, but those are people with psychological issues, and nobody likes to play with them for long, of course.
    Ok lets say you are playing solo , and your with your DM and he has a quest module that says is suitable for 4-6 players , level of 14 .
    And your a level 15 solo who insists that you want the DM to run that module . Whos the putz , you or the DM ?

  19. #19
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyndzen View Post
    It seems that there is a sort of gameplay philosophy that one must accept to enjoy DDO adventures, which is that it is perfectly acceptable for the "DM" (designer) to make quests that are auto-death to somebody who doesn't know ahead of time exactly the one or two ways to beat an otherwise unbeatable boss, or, as a different example, a lvl 4 char who doesn't have a way to have protection vs acid when several trogs all cast melf acid arrow on him simultaneously?

    I really like DDO in general, especially the terrific character development, but in my DnD preference, I would never play DnD with a DM who put my char in situations that resulted in unavoidable death... unless I had some specific obscure item.

    It seems like "proper preparation" in DDO often is assumed to consist of heading into an adventure with a strong char and smart prep, dying horribly to some cheesy, way-overpowered monster trick, then getting just the right stuff, now that you already know what is in the adventure.

    It just strikes me as so very cheesy that I apparently need to have a specific hireling or one particular obscure item for every single adventure, if I want to survive these whammies.

    Note that your advice was, for example, to play a warforged to be immune to level drain. I totally appreciate you responding, but notice what that advice implies. Before I go into a new adventure, should I delete my current halfling char and make a warforged? Obviously not. And that illustrates my point. Imagine a point in a quest where it says, "you are now dead, no save, because you are not a warforged." Then somebody advises me, "well, to do that quest, you should be a warforged, not a halfling. Everybody else dies instantly." Isn't that obviously bad, unfun quest design?
    This isn't really true, if you head into any quest on normal, at level (no xp penalty), with a balanced party and take your time I would imagine that you can get through any quest (assuming play skill/strategy/basic gear etc.)

    DMs will often set up encounters that need specific items to complete, they will just make sure that you have that item.

    If you want to solo then expect a challenge, expect to require certain gear to complete certain quests.

    Please, please please please don't ask for more easy buttons. It really makes me hate this game when quests are easy buttoned.

  20. #20
    Community Member voxson5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Please, please please please don't ask for more easy buttons. It really makes me hate this game when quests are easy buttoned.
    This.


    Remember how good Tear of Dhakaan was before the devs removed the locked doors?

    Or von 3....

    The game should be a challenge, one you over come & feel awesome about.


    If you want god mode, go back to playing Rastan Saga on the c64

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