Light monks need higher level light attacks

[Riggs]

Dark monks get higher level damage attacks, light monks do not.

Prestige classes dont count. (Too obvious to explain why)

And rename Fists of Light to "Fists of cure light wounds and undead bane" - because it is not light damage.

Or just be logical and make the damage light damage - that can still heal. There is no logical reason light monks get no other light attacks except at level 3.

Then add a level 12/18 set of light attacks - top tier doing 5d6 light damage say per hit. With a finisher that is like sunburst say.

Kame...meha!

[CrosisBlackwing]

and Dark Monks should recieve Tier 3 of their Prestiege Class that deals 2d6 Negative Energy on every strike (No Save)

seriously however, the Light Monks do gain an additional Light Attack. It is called "Rise of the Pheonix" and goes along with the general plan of "Dark Monks get DPS strikes" "Light Monks get Support Strikes" an example of this is the finishers. Water-Light-Water is -10% SP costs, Water-Dark-Water is a Stunning attack.


Summary- I disagree with your suggestion, it doesn't follow the flavor of the class that it was meant for.

[Fafnir]

Any sort of monk suffers with only a x2 crit multiplier on their weapons. Both need a boost.

[Riggs]

and Dark Monks should recieve Tier 3 of their Prestiege Class that deals 2d6 Negative Energy on every strike (No Save)

seriously however, the Light Monks do gain an additional Light Attack. It is called "Rise of the Pheonix" and goes along with the general plan of "Dark Monks get DPS strikes" "Light Monks get Support Strikes" an example of this is the finishers. Water-Light-Water is -10% SP costs, Water-Dark-Water is a Stunning attack.


Summary- I disagree with your suggestion, it doesn't follow the flavor of the class that it was meant for.

I am sorry - how much damage does Rise of the Phoenix do again? I couldn't find it in the compendium.

I was talking about attacks - on monsters - not special abilities.

[Riggs]

Any sort of monk suffers with only a x2 crit multiplier on their weapons. Both need a boost.

And given the high AP cost of all the monk abilities (like several classes that are very tight on enhancements) - not everyone has the earth finishers maxed out - which doesnt matter anyway because an extra crit on the 4th attack of a chain doesnt count as 'monks get extra crits'.

It has to be regular to be useful.

[Kinerd]

Fists of Darkness doesn't do dark damage, it does negative damage. Fists of Light, by the same token, doesn't do light damage, it does positive damage.

Dark monks only get 1 higher level dark move without PrEs, and it's pretty obvious that the light version of it is Rise of the Phoenix.

It's hard to see what you mean by "logical".

[Sandmek]

dont know about added damage for monks, but i would like to see the buffs get extended a little bit at higher levels, i m not talking about 10 mins, i talking a nother min or two

[Musouka]

I am sorry - how much damage does Rise of the Phoenix do again? I couldn't find it in the compendium.

I was talking about attacks - on monsters - not special abilities.

That's the choice you make when you decide to take the Path of Harmonious Balance. You lose the ability to make an attack machine. Monks are very versatile, and you can spec them out so many different ways, with or without prestiges. However, at level 3, you have to make a choice on whether you want to be a support monk, or a damage monk.

Rise of the Phoenix would be the exact opposite to Touch of Death. As one is designed to kill something immediately, while the other is designed to bring back to life. Why do you need a special attack? If Light monks gain a special attack, then Dark monks should gain a special ability to raise people or completely heal themselves every so often after a short cooldown timer. How would you like that?

[Riggs]

Fists of Darkness doesn't do dark damage, it does negative damage. Fists of Light, by the same token, doesn't do light damage, it does positive damage.

Dark monks only get 1 higher level dark move without PrEs, and it's pretty obvious that the light version of it is Rise of the Phoenix.

It's hard to see what you mean by "logical".

So a cleric casting Raise Dead is an offensive spell? It is exactly the same as Finger of Death then?

I mean people are saying they are the same thing. Thats logical....

[dunklezhan]

No they're saying they're exact opposites - and that's right and proper. Light and Dark paths are opposites. You mirror the Dark path, you don't replicate it.

[Missing_Minds]

I am sorry - how much damage does Rise of the Phoenix do again? I couldn't find it in the compendium.

I was talking about attacks - on monsters - not special abilities.

Let alone the dark monk equiv of Rise is the ToD. That is how much damage again? yeah.

No they're saying they're exact opposites - and that's right and proper. Light and Dark paths are opposites. You mirror the Dark path, you don't replicate it.

So, you are saying we should be healing for more, let alone healed for more. I'm good with that.

[dunklezhan]

So, you are saying we should be healing for more, let alone healed for more. I'm good with that.

Yes. I would certainly agree with that. healing curse should probably add +1 extra point of healing per 5 monk levels, ditto for the light finisher.

At L20 that would be maybe the equivalent of a mass cure serious. Which is nice, but not enough to make a real dent - much the same as the light finisher at L3.

Also think all the monk finishers, light and dark, should be increased in duration by 1 min.

But that's not what the OP said. The OP is asking for more damage on a Light monk because Dark can do more, and that's not really appropriate.

[Missing_Minds]

But that's not what the OP said. The OP is asking for more damage on a Light monk because Dark can do more, and that's not really appropriate.

I know what the op said, and and against undead I think it should do more. (but I don't see that happening)

But as for the rest of it, I'd love to see that as a perk of being light.

[QuantumFX]

OP: I can appreciate your sentiment on the subject but I believe you are approaching this from the wrong angle. Fists of Light is named because positive energy looks like a bright flash of light. Fists of Darkness is named because negative energy looks like crackling black energy. Taking the name too literally is just a silly way to start off a rant.

You’re better off breaking down why the positive abilities are a joke and then suggesting alternatives.

Example:

IMHO the whole curative clickie line available to Harmonious Balance monks is a badly written joke. All of the curative abilities are very slow and unwieldy to use, they provide almost no benefit to the monk or to a party and are more expensive than the much more useful Improved Recovery line of enhancements. I think the best way to improve the whole line would be to replace the curative clickies with debuff effects similar to what are available to dark monks and culminating with a devastating attack that would be competitive with Touch of Death.

Lifting the Veil: Cons: Blindness is a rarely used spell. Once greensteel becomes available it becomes completely pointless. Easily replaceable by wands/potions or other clickies. Interrupts attack chain.

A better alternative would be to make this into an attack that removes concealment/incorporeal effects from a target for 30 seconds.


The Receptive Earth: Cons: Obsoleted by level 5 for the monk and is easily replaced by potions/clickies. Interrupts attack chain.

A better alternative would be to make this into an attack that lowers the DR on a target by 2 for 30 seconds.


Restoring the Balance: Cons: Probably the only clickie worth having. However, considering it’s surrounded by a bunch of cr*p enhancements it should get a thematic overhaul.

A better alternative would be to make this into an attack that increases ki generation when hitting the target for 30 seconds. (Kind of like Fists of Light for ki.)


Difficulty at the Beginning: Cons: When you’re most likely to need it, you can’t use it because you’re uncentered due to stat damage.

A better alternative would be to make this into an attack that trips an opponent. DC is 10 + Monk Level + WIS mod.


Rise of the Phoenix: Cons: This ability can be easily replaced by clickies. When you’re most likely to need this ability you won’t be able to use it due to ki costs.

Some better alternative options:

Some players and developers try to equate Touch of Death to Slay Living and Rise of the Phoenix to Raise Dead. If this was true thematically then Touch of Death should be a poor man’s Quivering Palm and not a 500 hit point strike.

A better analogy would be Touch of Death = Harm; Rise of the Phoenix = Heal. At the very least this would be the ability to b*tch slap undead creatures in a similar manner to how Touch of Death works on everything except undead and constructs.

However, this is too narrow of a target group for DDO. So, I would probably add in that Shintao monks would be able to use the revised Rise of the Phoenix on tainted creatures.

A simpler alternative would be to make Rise of the Phoenix into an attack that mimics the Radiant Burst ability on the Epic Handwraps of Endless Light and dumps a Curse of Healing on it at the same time. Less damage, more variety of targets and is more favorable to potential Henshin Mystics.

In either case you might want to make the attack animation look like you cast Eagle’s Spendor on the target.

[DragoonPenguin]

That's the choice you make when you decide to take the Path of Harmonious Balance. You lose the ability to make an attack machine. Monks are very versatile, and you can spec them out so many different ways, with or without prestiges. However, at level 3, you have to make a choice on whether you want to be a support monk, or a damage monk.

Rise of the Phoenix would be the exact opposite to Touch of Death. As one is designed to kill something immediately, while the other is designed to bring back to life. Why do you need a special attack? If Light monks gain a special attack, then Dark monks should gain a special ability to raise people or completely heal themselves every so often after a short cooldown timer. How would you like that?

Who takes rise of the phoenix anyway?

[Kriogen]

Light side = defence, protect.
Dark side = offence, destroy.

OK, but if light side gets offensive attacks, I want dark side to get defensive buffs/cures.

[waterboytkd]

OP: I can appreciate your sentiment on the subject but I believe you are approaching this from the wrong angle. Fists of Light is named because positive energy looks like a bright flash of light. Fists of Darkness is named because negative energy looks like crackling black energy. Taking the name too literally is just a silly way to start off a rant.

You’re better off breaking down why the positive abilities are a joke and then suggesting alternatives.

Example:

IMHO the whole curative clickie line available to Harmonious Balance monks is a badly written joke. All of the curative abilities are very slow and unwieldy to use, they provide almost no benefit to the monk or to a party and are more expensive than the much more useful Improved Recovery line of enhancements. I think the best way to improve the whole line would be to replace the curative clickies with debuff effects similar to what are available to dark monks and culminating with a devastating attack that would be competitive with Touch of Death.

Lifting the Veil: Cons: Blindness is a rarely used spell. Once greensteel becomes available it becomes completely pointless. Easily replaceable by wands/potions or other clickies. Interrupts attack chain.

A better alternative would be to make this into an attack that removes concealment/incorporeal effects from a target for 30 seconds.


The Receptive Earth: Cons: Obsoleted by level 5 for the monk and is easily replaced by potions/clickies. Interrupts attack chain.

A better alternative would be to make this into an attack that lowers the DR on a target by 2 for 30 seconds.


Restoring the Balance: Cons: Probably the only clickie worth having. However, considering it’s surrounded by a bunch of cr*p enhancements it should get a thematic overhaul.

A better alternative would be to make this into an attack that increases ki generation when hitting the target for 30 seconds. (Kind of like Fists of Light for ki.)


Difficulty at the Beginning: Cons: When you’re most likely to need it, you can’t use it because you’re uncentered due to stat damage.

A better alternative would be to make this into an attack that trips an opponent. DC is 10 + Monk Level + WIS mod.


Rise of the Phoenix: Cons: This ability can be easily replaced by clickies. When you’re most likely to need this ability you won’t be able to use it due to ki costs.

Some better alternative options:

Some players and developers try to equate Touch of Death to Slay Living and Rise of the Phoenix to Raise Dead. If this was true thematically then Touch of Death should be a poor man’s Quivering Palm and not a 500 hit point strike.

A better analogy would be Touch of Death = Harm; Rise of the Phoenix = Heal. At the very least this would be the ability to b*tch slap undead creatures in a similar manner to how Touch of Death works on everything except undead and constructs.

However, this is too narrow of a target group for DDO. So, I would probably add in that Shintao monks would be able to use the revised Rise of the Phoenix on tainted creatures.

A simpler alternative would be to make Rise of the Phoenix into an attack that mimics the Radiant Burst ability on the Epic Handwraps of Endless Light and dumps a Curse of Healing on it at the same time. Less damage, more variety of targets and is more favorable to potential Henshin Mystics.

In either case you might want to make the attack animation look like you cast Eagle’s Spendor on the target.

as soon as i figure out how to give rep, you are getting +1 sir. these are fantastic ideas. i really like them. a couple changes i might make are that they would gain the element type they require (restore balance is a fire attack, receptive earth is earth attack, etc) for the purposes of getting to a finishing move. that, or they would count as light attacks for the purposes of getting to a finishing move (maybe makes more sense). and i'd make the receptive earth knock off 5 dr (it costs 20 ki, after all). and restore the balance might be a shorter duration (maybe 6 seconds?). getting an extra ki per hit is a big deal, so you shouldn't just be able to string restores one after the other and have a perma fire stance/oremi's necklace going (and one that works on top of fire stance/oremi's necklace). it's use would be to quickly build up key for some big moves, like rise.

and rise of the phoenix? well, if touch of death = harm, why not rise = heal? like the spell. i know this doesn't follow the pattern of turning them all into strikes, but it'd go from bad to awesome pretty quick. and it'd make it so that light monks can, in fact, solo a lot of content, instead of only being able to solo early game content (and maybe some mid-game). just a thought, and to be honest, i don't like that it breaks the pattern of turning them all into strikes...

maybe it puts an uber healing curse on a bad guy instead? like one that gives +10 hp per hit. with healing amps and what not, that can quickly become some serious hp in a short amount of time, and it'd be something that would help out the whole group, too. and against undead, like fists of light, it would deal positive energy damage to undead as a heal spell (sticking with the rise=heal analogy). the curse would last for 6 seconds, and the refresh on this is 15 seconds already, right? this, too would make it possible to at least solo mid-game content and some of the earlier late game content.

and get rid of the 50 hp cost on top of the 50 ki cost. i hate that with current rise. i mean, touch of death doesn't have that cost, and when you compare the two in terms of general usefulness, touch blows rise clear out of the water.

[dunklezhan]

Who takes rise of the phoenix anyway?

I do. And I've used it, and its saved groups from a wipe numerous times.

[Riggs]

Yes. I would certainly agree with that. healing curse should probably add +1 extra point of healing per 5 monk levels, ditto for the light finisher.

At L20 that would be maybe the equivalent of a mass cure serious. Which is nice, but not enough to make a real dent - much the same as the light finisher at L3.

Also think all the monk finishers, light and dark, should be increased in duration by 1 min.

But that's not what the OP said. The OP is asking for more damage on a Light monk because Dark can do more, and that's not really appropriate.

No that is not what I said. but like all recent activity what I said and what people actually reply to are increasingly different things.

Dark monks get low level attacks, dark monks get high level attacks.

Light monk gets a single low level attack, and zero high level attacks.

Seemingly no one finds it out of place to have a level 20 monk using a level 3 ability because that is the ONLY attack they have.

And also that it should be light not healing 'damage'.

[Riggs]

Light side = defence, protect.
Dark side = offence, destroy.

OK, but if light side gets offensive attacks, I want dark side to get defensive buffs/cures.

You realize dark side also has debuffs? A bunch of them AND attacks.

I find it interesting that few other people find it strange that something light based - say like a laser - has zero capability to damage something, and that people have no issue with punching things to heal them.

Or to use another analogy, since people keep tossing 'light side and dark side' around.

A good jedi has zero, zero 'force powers' they are able to use on opponents? "Nope sorry the mind trick isnt a buff, so it needs to be nurfed - take it away, oh and that telekinesis thingy? Gone, its not a buff either".

In a war - do good soldiers hand out flowers instead of attacking? Not allowed to use grenades maybe?

Yeah, makes a lot of sense thanks.