Normal Shroud

[unscythe]

isn't there only 1 shrine in pt 3? if you want us to shrine buff and then shrine you would have to wait 15 minutes to shrine. which would waste more time?

If i am wrong point me in the right direction

Casters/Divines the SP pools in part 3 are nice. But if you use it to restore more then 100 sp, then you are wasting alot of everyones time. Just shrine.
Buff then shrine, and then buff yourself. The less then 100 sp you spend on yourself and not refill will not cause a party to fail. If you get down to the wire, it is the lack of the party, and possibly yourself as a healer.

Part 3 is not the time to pike. Stop watching others do their puzzle,and run water. If your not an unlocker, then run water. If your done with your puzzle, run water. If your not the designated healer at the fountain, then run water. If your not the designated piker, then run water. if your puzzle is done and watered, then run water. If your neighbor's, sister's, brother's, uncle's,or 6th relation relative's fountain is watered, then run water. If there are still fountains to be filled, then run water.

The "Just shrine." is being reiterated. Like in the few lines below of "Run water". Maybe I needed more reiterations of Just shrine and not use the pool.

[Horkrux]

Oh i see. sorry about that

[Crann]

I think what he is saying is that you should be coming out of part three with a mostly full blue bar.

Use it to buff, then shrine.

[WestportStan]

My tips:

Virtue is a must. Every paladin needs to cast this on everyone. We all miss Actron, remind us of him

HaHa
+1
Ahhh sever memories, from what seems like long ago

[Sanadil]

One point that I don't fully understand is the effects of pets in Parts 4 and 5. I understand that part 3 is a no-no because they will break crystals over the doors and prevent the 2 bonus chests. I also get part 2 as you dont want to have more control over aggroing and killing the mini bosses.

My understanding to this point is that you didn't want them around in part 4 and 5 because they cause aggro issues with Harry. I did a Shroud over the weekend where I was assured this was not so, and a host of pets was summoned at the begginning of part 5. We spent alot of time chasing Harry around...so not really sure of that mechanic.

There's always been one issue or another in part 4 or 5 of shroud and pets.

Currently, Part 4, a pet can stop harry from dropping down. This does not always happen, so its not consistent, but does randomly happen. This can happen mid stream if you go more than one round too.

Part 5, its been forever since I've done this messing around, but it causes Harry to start dropping meteor swarms down on the party from his perch up top. I'm not sure if it still does it, but that would be why its a no go. After harry is down, go ahead, cast your pet, it doesn't matter.

[DaSawks]

Here is my 2 cents.

Phase 2. Maze.

Toon Timmy gets in trouble off by himself and dies. Timmy then yells for a Rez.

Where are you Timmy? In the well?

Find the Healers first. Stick near them if you need to.

Healers. Anounce where you will be. Having both healers in the South West when Timmy is dieing in the South East does not work.

[Hellllboy]

Tips:

You do not need stalwart pact in part one, part two, part three, part four, or part five of shroud.
If your hit poits are decent and the healers are decen, then it is unnessecary.
If your hit points are low, work on getting more hit points other then trying to get a GS item, it will be alot easier.
Also the portals do not hit back, so why spend so much time giving buffs that do not add damage to help beating down portals.

Rangers should not be holding up the party to barkskin every player and pet they see.
That buff is useless for the majority of the players in the raid.
Very few will have the AC for that +5 of ugly uberness you grant to be of any significance.
Instead try passing out Freedom Of Movement (FoM) or any resists.

Casters/Divines the SP pools in part 3 are nice. But if you use it to restore more then 100 sp, then you are wasting alot of everyones time. Just shrine.
Buff then shrine, and then buff yourself. The less then 100 sp you spend on yourself and not refill will not cause a party to fail. If you get down to the wire, it is the lack of the party, and possibly yourself as a healer.

Part 3 is not the time to pike. Stop watching others do their puzzle,and run water. If your not an unlocker, then run water. If your done with your puzzle, run water. If your not the designated healer at the fountain, then run water. If your not the designated piker, then run water. if your puzzle is done and watered, then run water. If your neighbor's, sister's, brother's, uncle's,or 6th relation relative's fountain is watered, then run water. If there are still fountains to be filled, then run water.

Also, do not make claims unless you can actually do them. Do not say "This is going to be a one round party.", when you do not know half of the party. I have only joined a few pugs were such claims are made at the gate, and see a second round of Arrytrikeos in part 4.

I can appreciate what you are trying to do here-but the point of the matter is that 9 out of 10 people (especially on Orien) that still retain these practices don’t read the forums and never will.

I wish there was an avenue to communicate to new players in a better format.

[unscythe]

I can appreciate what you are trying to do here-but the point of the matter is that 9 out of 10 people (especially on Orien) that still retain these practices don’t read the forums and never will.

I wish there was an avenue to communicate to new players in a better format.

Yea, very unfortunate. Maybe a link, but reason doesn't reach half the players. Since, they didn't think of it or want to think of about it, so it must be right.

[Hellllboy]

I came back to Orien to check things out last night-ran a PUG Normal Shroud to see if it really is that bad or not.

I was speechless to see a 68 min. completion with full on buffs at every part (this doesn’t even touch on all the dinking around between completion of parts and moving on).

I totally understand where you are coming from now.

[unscythe]

Yeah, I don't run shroud anymore unless I need the power shards, easier to solo Sins for large mats, and much faster. I think my wizard does them in around 15 mins on normal with all the chests. So i could run the quest about 4 times in the 1 run and loot 5 chests per run that all have a chance to drop a large mat.

Anyways can't push people to do something they have no interest in doing. I think Orien for the most part is extremely casual players, who get angry when you try to do something different or say something they are not use to.

[parowan]

Some good tips, though some of the most important you left out. Like: Don't just stand there! Drop 5K at the AH for a beater and beat on the portal! Or: Wait until AFTER completion to portal back to the invasion altar and do your crafting!

But as for this one:

Casters/Divines the SP pools in part 3 are nice. But if you use it to restore more then 100 sp, then you are wasting alot of everyones time. Just shrine.
Buff then shrine, and then buff yourself. The less then 100 sp you spend on yourself and not refill will not cause a party to fail. If you get down to the wire, it is the lack of the party, and possibly yourself as a healer.

Let me get this straight: you're complaining that your healer is topping off their sp? O_o

It takes me twenty seconds to refill a couple hundred sp by swimming into the corner, and you can't spare me that much time? Please squelch me then. Because those couple hundred sp will probably not make or break the raid, but, as you say, "the lack of the party" may make things get tight (esp. in pugs), so you better believe I'll be spending 20 seconds of your time to top off my sp just in case. A healer choosing not to top-off is like a melee choosing to use their 2nd-best weapon.

[porq]

Casters/Divines the SP pools in part 3 are nice. But if you use it to restore more then 100 sp, then you are wasting alot of everyones time. Just shrine.
Buff then shrine, and then buff yourself. The less then 100 sp you spend on yourself and not refill will not cause a party to fail. If you get down to the wire, it is the lack of the party, and possibly yourself as a healer.

Some good tips, though some of the most important you left out. Like: Don't just stand there! Drop 5K at the AH for a beater and beat on the portal! Or: Wait until AFTER completion to portal back to the invasion altar and do your crafting!

But as for this one:

Let me get this straight: you're complaining that your healer is topping off their sp? O_o

It takes me twenty seconds to refill a couple hundred sp by swimming into the corner, and you can't spare me that much time? Please squelch me then. Because those couple hundred sp will probably not make or break the raid, but, as you say, "the lack of the party" may make things get tight (esp. in pugs), so you better believe I'll be spending 20 seconds of your time to top off my sp just in case. A healer choosing not to top-off is like a melee choosing to use their 2nd-best weapon.

Emphasis in red is mine.


If you're shrining after buffing everyone else, we aren't talking about a couple hundred sp, and even in Unscythe's quote he's being a bit generous for how much sp a divine needs to buff the necessities for the next fight.

FoM is 25, fire resist is 15; without turning off quicken thats another 20. Add in the reflexive nightshield (I always hit it) for another 10 / 20, for up to around 100 if you're lax with your sp. I know I can be sometimes.


You could top off that 40 if you wanted, but the point is that 40 sp probably wont save your party if it gets down to the wire like that. Rarely will the very last cure that is tossed drain your sp bar to ~0 just as Arry dies, so in nearly all cases, it's not really worth it to top off.


The grand ol' point Unscythe is trying to make though is to buff before using the shrine to eliminate having to top off, or at the worst need to swim for ~40 sp if you so choose.
That way you don't need to hold up the party getting back the couple hundred sp spent buffing after shrining or by not shrining at all.

[parowan]

OK, I'll give you that. I guess I'm just used to people wandering around when the party buffs are being handed out. Then I shrine. Then they take it upon themselves to join the party. Being too soft at heart I go ahead and buff the stragglers. But I guess that should be another tip: Quit dinking around and get in the circle for party buffs! (And then there's the people demanding death ward for pt4 )

Still, I can't help it if my eyebrow raises at the idea that someone would complain that their healer is topping off their sp.

[TheBroken_JPK]

I hate how we have to wait for the buff train to pass. Almost all the buffs are unneeded, and it does nothing except waste time.

I gotta agree on the part about "telling the newb to click the middle" prank. I've actually never seen anyone fall for it, and its never been even close to funny listening to some guy mock scream into his mic.

[bl4uwe]

Parowan, you would be surpriced how many times I see a pug healer dipping in the fontain for 2 minutes just coz they REFUSE to buf people before shrining. They shrine first, then buff and then suddenly need to go dip in that stupid corner for an extremely long time, for over 1k mana, expecting the rest of the party to wait for that 1 healer.

I have a fvs myself and have solo healed it multiple times. It is extremely rare that you will see me jumping in that stupid fontain. I just buff first, then shrine, then buff myself for under 100mana, and straight go to part4, I dont care about that measly little SP, as like Porc mentioned, it aint going to mather anyway...

I also got one more tip for you. Before going to loot your chests, tell to everybody in the party that if they arent around the res shrine for buffs when you are casting them, they dont get buffed AT ALL. I do it all the time, and have send multiple people in there without buffs. Getting buffed in any quest is a privilige and luxury, as ya can actually get all needed buffs (in shroud) from clickies, cookies or potions. Not beeing there to get buffed, is me saying to you, drink a pot. If they give me some sort of reaction, then I dont mind even letting them die and not bothering shooting them a raise. You can say now that that is hurting the party, but I prefere speed runs who dont take over 1h to do a stupid normal shroud. In pugs I dont expect to be done in 25minutes or so, but I dont wanne waste time on 1 guy who doesnt understand the fact to be where is asked to be, and the rants off to you coz you didnt buff em. As a Healer, learn to stand in your shoes and tell them how it will go for buffing, dont let them drive around with you. And hey, you can also always go back to the -I dont listen/heal/react towards stupidity- card which seems to work very well.

You can call me now selfish and all, but I am an extremely experienced healer and people who have ran with hiromo know that I dont fool around with buffing stupid things that arent needed, I run fast and efficient, as how every quest (definately shroud) should be in my opinion. What do you prefere, wasting 1h on a shroud, or doing it in 30minutes and having another 30minutes left to do another quest

[EatSmart]

That way you don't need to hold up the party getting back the couple hundred sp spent buffing after shrining or by not shrining at all.

I think folks are making a mountain out of a molehill with regards to topping off SP in the fountain. Whats really holding the party up is the belief that 12 people need to all be together, ready, max buffed and at max SP before going into part 4. Its perfectly fine for 11 people to go ahead into part 4 and start clearing the scouts. Even if the person in the fountain is refilling their entire SP they should still have caught up before Arretreikos has come down.

[Tumarek]

Stalward Pact useless? No...

Yeah forget the DR that aint doing anything... what it is good for is the icon that pops up when you go under when you go under 50% HP. Maybe not so good on Harry or Arri but nice to have on all parts. Its like the Ork fury... saves you whatching your HP and even gives you a small buffer to react

Its this notice spoken by a friendly neutral voice: *Ding* "Your Hitpoints have reached a critical level, please consult your Cleric..."

[squeek1984]

One thing I don't understand is the chosen location for buffing in part 3.

Why aren't the healers shrining, then buffing from the pool? You can move and cast spells simultaneously if I recall correctly.

Beyond that, I just wish I could stop screwing up and going for one of the wrong portals every time in part 1. Its about a two second delay, but the fact that I run faster than everybody else means that all the Pugs follow me.

[parowan]

I hate how we have to wait for the buff train to pass. Almost all the buffs are unneeded, and it does nothing except waste time.

Ok, here's one that's been bugging me. I haven't carried the poison resist spell since . . . well, ever. By the time you're running shroud, shouldn't you have a proof against poison item? And if you choose not to cause you need the slot or something, doesn't that mean you should be willing to supply yourself with pots? But in the past couple weeks I've been surprised by how often people are asking for this buff.

[Hellllboy]

I hate how we have to wait for the buff train to pass. Almost all the buffs are unneeded, and it does nothing except waste time.

This

The only thing you really need to fight him is Fire and FOM (and if your a robot you don’t even need that).

Let’s get this done people! Quit walking around like lemmings! Think for yourselves!

Accountability-get your Poison and Disease handled, grab your DR breaker and lets finish. 30-40 min. should be the norm. for this run.