New Guild Policy- any input is appreciated

[Mattat]

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

The person with the star is required to collect the funds and distribute said funds to required healers at the end of the quest, even if that person passes the star!

If a wipe occurs, funds will be collected again if pots were used.

If caster has to drink pots to complete the raid, said caster will not be responsible for the 1,000PP and will receive a share of the funds.
a. If caster drops 84 firewalls when 14 are needed, we will make fun of you and not give you any caching.

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

[Mattat]

it seems to me if people are not takin care of their guild healers its a recruiting issue. If youre charging for running something then you'd better be the only one in DDO who can run it or run it solo and let everyone pike. imo

[lastresort]

what guild is this?

why would you want to run with a group that you need to pay to run with them?
i would leave the guild if i started to be charged for joining a raid. evan if it is only 1kpp

[Memnir]

- post removed -

[schwall420]

Sounds lame. I feel like we already paid/pay enough to play this game. If you can find people who agree with that, then more power to them...I guess.

[Garbudo]

You Drink a Potion Because, You do not want to fail a raid/Waste an hour of time.
IMO it is greed that keeps people from using these potions.

IMO= In my Opinion

That is All

[wax_on_wax_off]

You Drink a Potion Because, You do not want to fail a raid/Waste an hour of time.
IMO it is greed that keeps people from using these potions.

IMO= In my Opinion

That is All

It isn't greed that stops me from drinking a potion in certain situations. If in the situation, I run out of SP because of bad players then I won't drink a potion and I will let the raid wipe, people need to learn the hard way.

If I run out of SP because I make a mistake or because 1 person does something that couldn't be avoided (other healer DCs) then I will drink a potion as it's not fair to make everyone else pay for 1 persons mistake. In case 1 I wouldn't ask for compensation, in case 2 I would.

[SardaofChaos]

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

The person with the star is required to collect the funds and distribute said funds to required healers at the end of the quest, even if that person passes the star!

If a wipe occurs, funds will be collected again if pots were used.

If caster has to drink pots to complete the raid, said caster will not be responsible for the 1,000PP and will receive a share of the funds.
a. If caster drops 84 firewalls when 14 are needed, we will make fun of you and not give you any caching.

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

it seems to me if people are not takin care of their guild healers its a recruiting issue. If youre charging for running something then you'd better be the only one in DDO who can run it or run it solo and let everyone pike. imo

Did you just disagree with yourself?

[Garbudo]

It isn't greed that stops me from drinking a potion in certain situations. If in the situation, I run out of SP because of bad players then I won't drink a potion and I will let the raid wipe, people need to learn the hard way.

If I run out of SP because I make a mistake or because 1 person does something that couldn't be avoided (other healer DCs) then I will drink a potion as it's not fair to make everyone else pay for 1 persons mistake. In case 1 I wouldn't ask for compensation, in case 2 I would.

So dont penalize the good players it wastes their time as well as your own, its called buff the people that are doing something dont do anything for the worthless ones in group. You not drinking a potion just wastes your time as well, punishment would be dropping a tharnes goggles and grabbing it even if you had them because the rogue in group was a "Turd" There are plenty of ways to punish people besides just saying ok oh well lets let this raid fail.

[wax_on_wax_off]

So dont penalize the good players it wastes their time as well as your own, its called buff the people that are doing something dont do anything for the worthless ones in group. You not drinking a potion just wastes your time as well, punishment would be dropping a tharnes goggles and grabbing it even if you had them because the rogue in group was a "Turd" There are plenty of ways to punish people besides just saying ok oh well lets let this raid fail.

A raid is a team effort, imo, if 4 or more people (rough guess at proportions, 33%) are screwing up then:
a. the raid will probably fail regardless of if i drink a pot or not,
b. the leader failed at
a. making a good party and/or
b. leading a party, again, drinking a major won't save the outcome
c. the outcome reflects upon the raid leader and upon the people screwing up
d. not the healers fault

however, if, only 1-3 people is screwing up then
a. i won't need to drink a pot as this falls within the "margin of error" in my spell point pool allowance

however, if, 50% or more in a certain role are failing at their job (casters CCing, other healers healing etc.)
a. Others may pick up the slack (healer overhealing? I stop healing until they run out of SP, wizard not CCing? Cleric/Bard takes over, etc...) often with participation/support/direction from a competent leader
b. others do not pick up the slack, leader does nothing: raid fails unless majors get used

In the case of the last point, I don't mind drinking a major in this case but expect to be reimbursed - sometimes if i see the situation developing (healer at 50% sp 3 minutes in ...) then i will clarify this with the party so that there is no confusion but if there is not the luxury of time to clarify then i will use the major because i don't want the raid to fail on account of one person.

The biggest problem that I see is that if there is this expectation that majors are reimbursed then people who learned to heal badly will feel comfortable to keep healing badly. Imo, you should enter into a quest without the intention of having to use a major, if you don't think you can manage that then go get some better gear (archmagi, bauble, eSS ring, GS SP/conc opp etc.) or learn how to heal better. If I'm going into a situation which I know will put a strain on my SP pool I'll settle in to spot healing with heal scrolls straight away, use radiant servant burst/aura as much as possible and rely on my most SP efficient healing as much as possible (superior ardor VI clicky, empowered healing, mass cure light/moderate, preferably no quicken).

[Khellendros13]

You know why Epic Chrono and ToD sometimes need pots?

Choice of main tank.

Everyone needs to get over the whole " Put the highest hp, dps toon on Horath and spam heals" and the same with the Abishai and ask them to dodge fire and ice with a helping of lag.

Don't want to use pots in Chrono? Get a tank with 500+ hp, Evasion w/+40ref save and some fire absorb gear (Firestorm Greaves and Cold Shield is enough to survive a failed save on fire). Ability to hold agro helps obviously.

I tank Epic Chrono on my pally like that, stay in on fire and ice, and at the end I am told how much more boring that was than when the tank dies, agro changes and chaos ensues.

Lay on Hands is one of the best class abilities ever, and has saved many tank deaths.

Don't tell me pots are needed in Epic OOB either

Just need to go in with a solid strategy - controlling agro is the biggest thing, be it intim and shield blocking, kiting etc. All the successful, and efficient, raid strategies are about controlling agro. Much easier to heal 1 jackass than 8 jackass's

[cdemeritt]

When did ToD require a cleric to drink a pot? Yeah sometimes the S*** hits the fan, and I need to, but more than 75% of the time no pot is required, and sometimes I don't even need to hit my bauble...

[Mattat]

thanks so far guys. in response to if i just disagreed with myself- no, this wasnt my idea, but my opposition was ignored, this was the most constructive thing i could think of, and all the input is proving very interesting. keep it coming

[herzkos]

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

The person with the star is required to collect the funds and distribute said funds to required healers at the end of the quest, even if that person passes the star!

If a wipe occurs, funds will be collected again if pots were used.

If caster has to drink pots to complete the raid, said caster will not be responsible for the 1,000PP and will receive a share of the funds.
a. If caster drops 84 firewalls when 14 are needed, we will make fun of you and not give you any caching.

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

which guild is this? a pm is fine, just lemme know so i can avoid when playing on orien, thanks.

[Mattat]

sry herz, im doin my best to keep the guild name out of it in hopes that this gets rectified.
Im not here to burn the guild, its a great guild, save a few minor faults.In fact we've made mistakes before and fixed them. This post is to get the big picture. From what Ive gathered Im not the only one who feels ultimately that this will cost us rep and good players, and I cant stand by and let that happen. Im not even an officer, but Ive been with this guild since the day they started, its my home. I dont want the idiom to change, its the people that make the guild, and not the other way around. TY all

[Cauthey]

Sounds like you might have difficulty ratifying/enforcing that one. Instead, why not just encourage your guild members to make donations of wands, scrolls, platinum, etc., to the healers that participate in your raids?

[SmashBang]

my Feedback Is This.... If You Want This To Be A Policy For Your Guildmates, Fine. That Is Between You And Your Guildies, And If They Find It Acceptable Then That's Fine For You As A Collective Entity.

But, If You Want To Force A Door-charge On Me As A Puger, I'll Just Drop Group And Find Another. I Have No Problems Kicking In For Consumables After The Raid - But As An Up-front Fee I Find It Distasteful. Expect This To Be Unpopular.

+1

[Mattat]

yes agreed. Once again, everyone should take care of their healers. Thats not the issue, as I caster i rarely use the Major pots that end up in my inventory, i give them to my healers, and i use my baubles and trinkets. i watch sp and ill give a cleric a pot for a bad flaggin quest even, or for doing a good job in a no pot situation. TAKE CARE OF YOUR HEALERS!! My point is this- if you need to institute a pay for play raid policy because the healers are goin broke then , to me, the issue lies in individuals not takin care of the healers.And taxing not only guildies but PUGs also to run up front is a mistake. If it isnt just about greed then there is a better solution. IMO
For instance- Epic Chrono can be trying, so we set up a Chrono Pot Fund and have guildies donate majors. then from that pile we pay out healers IN a bad situation. Hows that sound?

[jwdaniels]

That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I have a couple of clerics and I find that you either don't need to use pots at all or you need to down them by the case regardless of what content you're running based completely upon the level of jackassery in the group you are running with.

If a particular guild finds that it's healers are always burning through a ton of pots on guild runs, to me that speaks to the caliber of players in that guild not the difficulty of the raid in question.

[Crann]

For instance- Epic Chrono can be trying, so we set up a Chrono Pot Fund and have guildies donate majors. then from that pile we pay out healers IN a bad situation. Hows that sound?

Much better. Although if you are not in a situation where your members are not already funneling all their pots to the healers...what are they doing with them?