Suggested change to BTC items

[Bloodhaven]

not even close to the samething and many wont ever tr its a horrible borring grind(yeah I do it on a couple of characters) and I dont ask for loot to use for when I tr.

How is it not the same?

Old argument was that people will keep all the loot to use on their TR's.

New argument is people will keep all the loot to use on their alts.

I do not see a whole lot of difference there.

[AtomicMew]

How is it not the same?

Old argument was that people will keep all the loot to use on their TR's.

New argument is people will keep all the loot to use on their alts.

I do not see a whole lot of difference there.

It is the same, and Uska is being shortsighted. I have seen enough loot abuse to realize that the current system is borked. As it is, I would much rather people see people earn their own loot than get it for free. If you are an average player, you'd see the same amount of loot across all of your characters, and it wouldn't affect you on the average. It would only negatively affect you if you are someone who abuses the loot and /roll system (e.g., proxy rolling, exchanging, etc.) Frankly, I do not see /roll as an integral part of this game.

[~Cereals_Alt]

been here since beta and this ranks amoung the top 5 worst ideas ever period. and yes I remember shortmanning raids and getting ripped off on loot.

I'm sorry you got ripped off running shortman raids. I happened to run many of them with only 1 other person so that made it pretty hard to rip off anyone. I personally like running a full raid group much better myself also. Because like I said I actually put loot up for roll.

Step outside the box for a minute and think about how many other people play this game besides just yourself. Consider this, You run ADQ with 1 caster 2 healers and 9 melee and a torque drops for one of those 9 melee classes. Melee offers to put it up for roll but the caster and the healers already have one. So now what? the melee is gonna take it. If it was BTA/BTCOE then the melee could transfer the torque to his wizzie alt. It would not affect your chance at the loot in any way other than the next time you join a ADQ there might be a wizzie in your group who already has a torque and therefor increases your chance of it being put up for roll if it drops.

Key points here;

1. Loot currently drops in raids that people already have or that they cant use. Under the current system sometimes it gets put up for roll and sometimes it doesn't. Either way it still gets pulled from the chest by someone.

2. Over time people would have more characters that were well equipped and therefore played more often , increasing the number of raids ran on the servers, increasing the number of potential sales of turbine points, and increasing your chances of getting the loot you need.

[Alabore]

2. Over time people would have more characters that were well equipped and therefore played more often , increasing the number of raids ran on the servers, increasing the number of potential sales of turbine points, and increasing your chances of getting the loot you need.

I would tend to agree with this.
More easily shared loot means more appropriately geared characters.

Granted, this might have an impact on server dynamics, such as economy and general power creep.
I am not sure this would be an easy button - people already pike some raids for loot.
And I see the problem with unusable gear gathering dust in banks; not everybody is going to TR, anytime soon or at all.

I would like some tweaking of binding mechanism.
Maybe unbound/BtA on acquire and BtC once equipped.
Unlocking rituals would also make sense - the mechanism in Sentinels had merits: gather sigils and unlock powers.

Again, this defeats the one point some DMs tend to enforce: no sharing of resources between characters.
But if that were true, we'd have to disable shared banking, mail and only allow one char per account.

[pHo3nix]

I'm sorry you got ripped off running shortman raids. I happened to run many of them with only 1 other person so that made it pretty hard to rip off anyone. I personally like running a full raid group much better myself also. Because like I said I actually put loot up for roll.

Step outside the box for a minute and think about how many other people play this game besides just yourself. Consider this, You run ADQ with 1 caster 2 healers and 9 melee and a torque drops for one of those 9 melee classes. Melee offers to put it up for roll but the caster and the healers already have one. So now what? the melee is gonna take it. If it was BTA/BTCOE then the melee could transfer the torque to his wizzie alt. It would not affect your chance at the loot in any way other than the next time you join a ADQ there might be a wizzie in your group who already has a torque and therefor increases your chance of it being put up for roll if it drops.

If you got all you need from one raid you wouldn't run it anymore..and people would bring only their melees to raids, cause if you bring your divine or arcane you might have to spend resources (scrolls, sp potions).

/notsigned

[Alabore]

If you got all you need from one raid you wouldn't run it anymore..and people would bring only their melees to raids, cause if you bring your divine or arcane you might have to spend resources (scrolls, sp potions).

I would be inclined to think the opposite, there: they mentioned they would be MORE likely to cycle characters, because they wouldn't have to run a specific toon.
If they could share some of the currently BtC gear around, they could bring their favourite char to a raid, or the one that needs the experience, or the one the party needs, as opposed to the one that needs the particular loot.

Would this be an easy button?
I can't really say: the game has changed a lot since its original inception.
Sometimes I feel we hang onto habits - we used to run the game a certain way, and changes potentially upset that balance.

It's the other side of the coin: we had to put up with nerfs to spells, skills, feats and so on.
For every nerf we get a boost.
I'd see this as a back-swing of the nerf bat.

[~Cereals_Alt]

Seriously, someone gave me neg rep for my post. Whoever it was thank you.. for pointing out to me that following forum guidelines, not saying anything derogatory or inflammatory. gets you just as much neg rep as it would if you just told someone to go *&^*& themselves.

[Alabore]

Seriously, someone gave me neg rep for my post.

Here, have a +1 rep cookie.
I gave you positive rep if it is of any solace.
Do not take it too personally: we all got neg rep we couldn't fathom about.
People sometimes are too much in a hurry to pause and reply, so they'll simply hit neg rep to let you know they disagree with a point or another.

[JohnWarlock]

I love the way people see how negatively things would affect you.

First of all: +3 and +4 tomes only drop from raids, if you want to get tomes you keep running your toons on raids.

Also think about it, if you have a melee, and you have all your shroud gear, tomes, raid gear, even epics. And you want the +6 dex ring from hound on your rogue, but they need an intimitank, what are you going to bring? Your fighter that doesn't need it, or your rogue that needs it? If you bring your fighter, you can intimitank, get it done succesfully and move the ring over to you rogue.

Personally I have given up on doing hound on my bards, the only time I will pull out my bards is when my guildies who are doing TR completionists run HoX. Who wants the ring my AA, he is the one I will look to run the quest with.

Now the other argument is that people will stop putting items for roll, first of all... do you want some cheese for that whine. Second, you know what, you'll get more raids done, cause people will be more inclined to run a raid with all their characters instead of only 1. It's a numbers game.

3rd point is, the benefit of tomes at your 20th completion or the loot you're looking for, make it more accessible for players to play more characters. Also it lets players experiment with builds that normally would either suffer in a raid, not be a productive, or just have a hard time getting into one.

Also if you have so much trouble with items being BTA, when you get them and don't need them, then don't take them and put them up for roll... other people will appreciate you for it.

Another thing people aren't thinking about is, if raid loot where BTA instead of BTC, you have more freedom on your characters. You can just move it from one char to another, specially when you are grinding for epics.

Yes some items will still be hard to come by, Torcs, etc. But why would you keep a ring of thelis +6 dex on your character when he now has ToD rings? Or an epic ring.

People need to start looking at the bigger picture, and yes I will admit there are people who's looting antics are dubious the least, but if you think that is the general population of this game, and how we all act. Then either you are still playing the wrong game, or you are seriously mistaken about the kind of people that usually play this game.

I would take a guess that from all the people I have come in contact with since the game came out, maybe 5% are ******s, idiots, mean, etc people, of course normally people just want to remember who wronged them and hurt them, rather than the good people they meet.

Heck I still remember this girl I met back in 08, we where doing a c06 run and she had pulled a planar gird from xorian and just gave ito to me, cause she said she had no need for it. Most of the people / guilds in this game are good and nice people, if you think otherwise like I said I feel sorry for your experiences.

[Hokiewa]

I can see turbine making the change from BTC to BTA.

No...they won't...They have already commented on why some loot is BTA, BTC etc...

Even if they did, existing raids(sans Chrono) would never become BTA. The main reason is quite obvious.

[Aelonwy]

I would like to see some raid loot made BTA instead of BTC, but I realize I'm in the minority and that Turbine will probably never do it. If I didn't have to run less survivable characters to get raid gear, I'd probably run my cleric most of the time since she's my favorite character anyways, and who doesn't want a cleric in their group? *gentle humor*

[SardaofChaos]

The suggestion was to make them BTC on equip. That's on equip. When you equip them. Negating your problems with people just grabbing one item for all their chars to use and then never running that raid again. On equip.

[Kromize]

BTC prevents people from bringing the most useful toon to a raid as opposed to the one that needs the item.

Right, so basically, you want to get good loot for your gimps, because your gimps are too gimp to get it themselves. Unfortunately for you though, if they're that gimp, they need to be rerolled, if not outright banished from existence.

[callforkills]

Yay - imagine a level 13 sorcerer running around with Glacial assault set.. Then also having bauble, an ess ring lying around, it would simply make the game poo and unbalanced. Low level chars would be uber and therefor have no problem running trough low level content. If the devs then chose to up the difficulity in lowlevels it would be harder for the newbs.

[Bloodhaven]

Then also having bauble, an ess ring lying around, it would simply make the game poo and unbalanced. Low level chars would be uber and therefor have no problem running trough low level content. If the devs then chose to up the difficulity in lowlevels it would be harder for the newbs.

This is already the case with TR's. These items have min levels so you would not see them using Ess until level 20 or the bauble till 18... Glacial assault is 13 i think so you might see that at level.

[Burtle]

No.

And just to cover all the other threads that'll pop up begging for this easy button this year:

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

u forgot "no" too

You forgot a few...hundred....thousand... =D

*note to self* READ WHOLE POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cyr]

I think this idea needs to be slightly modified for it to work well...

Change all BtC loot from chests to BtA loot with a special tag that makes it bind to character upon being equipped.

This would essentially make all BtC loot in game function like epic items work now...bind to account parts that when put together become BtC.

There would be the same total amount of each piece of loot needed for everyone's builds as before. Really all this would do is eliminate the dumb mechanic that makes you run certain quests with toons that need certain items instead of the best toon for the party. How epic loot works is the reason why it is far easier to get groups going for epics then it ever was for end game raids.

[Cyr]

Right, so basically, you want to get good loot for your gimps, because your gimps are too gimp to get it themselves. Unfortunately for you though, if they're that gimp, they need to be rerolled, if not outright banished from existence.

Incorrect.

Top end content benefits from taking the toon the party needs which for many players most of the time this is NOT their best toon.

Also, why the heck would anyone reroll a capped toon anymore when TR's exist?

[Phidius]

Right, so basically, you want to get good loot for your gimps, because your gimps are too gimp to get it themselves. Unfortunately for you though, if they're that gimp, they need to be rerolled, if not outright banished from existence.

Just because a build isn't "needed" for a given raid doesn't mean that they are gimped.

[SardaofChaos]

I think this idea needs to be slightly modified for it to work well...

Change all BtC loot from chests to BtA loot with a special tag that makes it bind to character upon being equipped.

This would essentially make all BtC loot in game function like epic items work now...bind to account parts that when put together become BtC.

There would be the same total amount of each piece of loot needed for everyone's builds as before. Really all this would do is eliminate the dumb mechanic that makes you run certain quests with toons that need certain items instead of the best toon for the party. How epic loot works is the reason why it is far easier to get groups going for epics then it ever was for end game raids.

The OP:

I was on a VoD raid yesterday with my Rogue, hoping foir some goggles. Low and behold on opening the chest I get...Gloves of the Glacier! Totally unusable for me. I put them up for roll and the only Arcane already had them and nobody wanted to roll on them. Now I have a Sorcerer that would love to have them, but they're BTC so my only option is to hang on to them till I TR as an arcane (if I do) or sell them to a vendor.

Why not make items like this Bound to Account on acquire and Bound to Character on equip?

Sure there would be less rolling for items, but I've read plenty of complaints about people not putting things up for roll even when their toon can't use it so that shouldn't be a consideration.

My post from earlier this page:

The suggestion was to make them BTC on equip. That's on equip. When you equip them. Negating your problems with people just grabbing one item for all their chars to use and then never running that raid again. On equip.

/facepalm