Suggested change to BTC items

[Uska]

Why?

For raid loot the character should earn it and we have enough easy buttons already.

[Darsith]

For raid loot the character should earn it and we have enough easy buttons already.

I dont play RP.... so my character is me, the player... I do earn raid loot. I still dont quite understand the need for BTC items.




However, I would like to see the stone of change bind stuff to account. (would work like the armor kits, BTA if not bound or it would stay BTC if already bound) Would offer the same advantages to the game that we are already seeing. Items will be prevented from taking permanent damage and still be able to have alchemical things put on them. (this could also give raised sales of shared bank).

[Kinerd]

For raid loot the character should earn it and we have enough easy buttons already.

To the first part, why should the character rather than the player earn it? I (the player) still have to complete the raid, what difference does it make which character I'm on?

To the second, can you explain how this is an "easy button", rather than a beneficial change that makes something less tedious?

[Alabore]

No. Raid loot should be used by the character that gets it. Period.

Earnest question: what about Chronoscope?

[Blank_Zero]

No.

And just to cover all the other threads that'll pop up begging for this easy button this year:

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

You forgot a few...hundred....thousand... =D

[~Cereals_Alt]

NO it would put a near end to loot sharing in raids this topic keeps coming up I wish people would search and see it isnt a popular idea

LMAO... it isn't a popular idea but it keeps being brought up. I see your logic completely.

To the Op~ I like the idea and I even made a suggestion post about this very same thing a few months ago. My idea involved a cleansing sigil after a certain number of raids to cleanse 1 item and make it BTA/BTCOE my proposed number was 60 raids.

You will never be able to make someone who has only played the game for a year understand that some of us have characters that have been playing the game since launch. Back in the day it was beneficial to short man raids and that some of us already have full sets of raid loot that just sits in the bank. On the plus side you can always keep all your loot and when you TR you have a nice little present waiting for you. By the way I put a lot of raid loot up for roll, always have and always will even if this is implemented. Many times I have ran a Titan raid and had loot drop that no one in the group could use like a docent.

It is unfortunate that there are a few people on the forums though that will flame you to death over this. Even though the loot you choose to pull or put up for roll has no bearing how powerful anyones character is or ever will be other than your own. The mere thought of someone having something they don't makes them cringe.

TLDR; /signed

[Xenus_Paradox]

It would reduce rolling on loot. HOWEVER, it would also reduce the need to roll on loot as you'll be able to farm a given item on all your characters in/above the appropriate level range.

/notsure

[Bloodhaven]

How is a Tempest not useful in ToD? Couldn't you just run your other toons while the ranger is on timer?

When the TOD group is waiting for a kiter or healer to start.

Waiting 30 mins with my ranger who needs a ring or log my healer who has no need of a ring.

I would rather run the ranger that needs the ring.


If these items were BTA I would run whatever toon made the quest go faster/smoother.

Tempest is use full however in most TOD groups you will see 10 + Meele DPS in the group and all they need to start is a healer. The same can be said about shroud and power shards or any quest with BTC items.

[Bloodhaven]

NO it would put a near end to loot sharing in raids this topic keeps coming up I wish people would search and see it isnt a popular idea

This argument was used when they were about to implement TR. Loot still gets rolled a lot.

[Zharfie]

Earnest question: what about Chronoscope?

for chronoscope the easy loot makes kind of sense since it's such a low level quest and the stuff is so low level that most people will out-level the quest very fast and never run it again at level. if the stuff was btc it would only be useful as epic and for TR toons.

chronoscope also gives named items as end reward every time and they drop from the chests like candy.

/not signed for the btc -> bta change.

[CrosisBlackwing]

Not Signed.

This idea reminds me of the Group Leader passing out two Raid Loot Tokens and only those players getting loot.
It isn't a direct comparison, but let me explain.

Under this new system, if I join a Raid run by mostly players in the same guild, why would they ever want to let me roll, or eveen pass me loot I can use? Certainly there is some guildy in the raid that can use it, and guildies are normally more important than the random pugger.
Under the Loot Token system, if I join the raid run by mostly players of the same guild, why would the leader pass a PuG the token instead of a guildy?

Conclusion: They won't.

I like how the suggestion would help, but I do not like how I percieve it to harm. I want (essentially) the same chance to get my loot no matter if it is a PuG, or if it is a Guild Raid. Our current system isn't perfect, but it does work. (To an extent.) The grind is part of the game, if you don't like it, you don't have to do it.

[ulticleo]

See that's the point exactly, if people where motivated to run other toons in raids, not just the one they NEED to run stuff with.

^ This.

yes, you'll have less chance to roll on the loot, but guess what? that's fine. I can't remember the number of times I pulled a torq or bracers of the glaciers on my melee, or madstone boots or tharnes on my caster etc. If they were BTA, I wouldn't need to sit there and hope that *someone* would pull them, *and* be kind to put it up for roll, *and* I win the roll. instead, I run all my toons through the raid, and when *any* of them pull the item, problem solved.

"people won't put it up for roll" is not a good enough reason. Oh, and as Mr. Cow likes to say - pointless grind is pointless.

/signed

[Beethoven]

/signed

Now, I will agree the side-effect would be that some stuff is not put up for roll because people could use it on an alt. Then again, I see Seals and Shards put up for roll all the time. There also seems far less drama. Bound raid loot causes drama all the time.

On the up-side, it would allow players to choose toons by what the group needs. ToD is a classic example. It's getting harder and harder to find experienced kiters since they long have their rings and much rather would take a toon who still doesn't have their set; same with hjeals (I am one of them). With 40+ completion on my Tempest and still no Tempest ring, fat chance you get me in there as healer except for guildies and close friends and also only if the raid happening depends on me healing it.

As for popularity, it's a pretty common occurrence to hear someone say, "I wish those silly rings would be bta. Then I wouldn't mind healing/kiting so much.

You have a similar situation with eV6 and bards and the exact opposite with eDQ (drops good stuff for casters who still needs base items, but few groups go with more than a single arcane).

I just don't see a lot backing up the remaining arguments:

* it's in no way similar to the past raid loot/token system. It's the same system used now with epic shards/seals and I have yet to see a party leader gain the magical ability to collect all of them and then re-assign them to guildies.
* I don't think saying people who have epic gear don't "deserve" it since shards/seals are btc and scrolls not bound at all. In fact, having VoD goggles or Madstone boots isn't commonly considered something all that speshful, having certain epic gear on the other hand is (ie: epic Spell Storing rings consist of two pieces that are not bound and two pieces that are bta).
* easy button: it doesn't effect the difficulty of the quest/raid at all. It does make the grind easier since players with multiple toons do not necessarily have to wait for timers on specific toons being up.

So, to me it boils down to:

* Btc: Grind takes somewhat longer since people want loot on specific toons and thus need to wait for the timer being up. More stuff will be put up for roll with the negative effect of increased drama if someone loots/rolls on something where the benefit could be put in question (ie: melees and VoD Bracers).
* Bta: allows people to switch to whatever toon the group needs most and still have a chance to get what they are looking for out of there. It's likely less stuff will be up for roll, therefor groups will be easier to fill.

I rather have the later than the former if it means less waiting to fill a group and no more constant feeling sorry for someone having to "take one for the team" and switch to a toon that doesn't need anything from the raid just so the thing can actually happen.

[sweez]

Level 20 Chrono farming runs. Over and over again. Is that what you want the future to look like?

[Bloodhaven]

/signed

Now, I will agree the side-effect would be that some stuff is not put up for roll because people could use it on an alt. Then again, I see Seals and Shards put up for roll all the time. There also seems far less drama. Bound raid loot causes drama all the time.

On the up-side, it would allow players to choose toons by what the group needs. ToD is a classic example. It's getting harder and harder to find experienced kiters since they long have their rings and much rather would take a toon who still doesn't have their set; same with hjeals (I am one of them). With 40+ completion on my Tempest and still no Tempest ring, fat chance you get me in there as healer except for guildies and close friends and also only if the raid happening depends on me healing it.

As for popularity, it's a pretty common occurrence to hear someone say, "I wish those silly rings would be bta. Then I wouldn't mind healing/kiting so much.

You have a similar situation with eV6 and bards and the exact opposite with eDQ (drops good stuff for casters who still needs base items, but few groups go with more than a single arcane).

I just don't see a lot backing up the remaining arguments:

* it's in no way similar to the past raid loot/token system. It's the same system used now with epic shards/seals and I have yet to see a party leader gain the magical ability to collect all of them and then re-assign them to guildies.
* I don't think saying people who have epic gear don't "deserve" it since shards/seals are btc and scrolls not bound at all. In fact, having VoD goggles or Madstone boots isn't commonly considered something all that speshful, having certain epic gear on the other hand is (ie: epic Spell Storing rings consist of two pieces that are not bound and two pieces that are bta).
* easy button: it doesn't effect the difficulty of the quest/raid at all. It does make the grind easier since players with multiple toons do not necessarily have to wait for timers on specific toons being up.

So, to me it boils down to:

* Btc: Grind takes somewhat longer since people want loot on specific toons and thus need to wait for the timer being up. More stuff will be put up for roll with the negative effect of increased drama if someone loots/rolls on something where the benefit could be put in question (ie: melees and VoD Bracers).
* Bta: allows people to switch to whatever toon the group needs most and still have a chance to get what they are looking for out of there. It's likely less stuff will be up for roll, therefor groups will be easier to fill.

I rather have the later than the former if it means less waiting to fill a group and no more constant feeling sorry for someone having to "take one for the team" and switch to a toon that doesn't need anything from the raid just so the thing can actually happen.

I can see turbine making the change from BTC to BTA.

[Alabore]

for chronoscope the easy loot makes kind of sense since it's such a low level quest and the stuff is so low level that most people will out-level the quest very fast and never run it again at level. if the stuff was btc it would only be useful as epic and for TR toons.
chronoscope also gives named items as end reward every time and they drop from the chests like candy.
/not signed for the btc -> bta change.

Level 20 Chrono farming runs. Over and over again. Is that what you want the future to look like?

I have trouble getting your point, gents.
Either Chrono gear is easily out-levelled, or it's so good compared to same-level gear people won't join anything but a lvl 20 loot train.

...

I would be inclined to agree with Beethoven above.

[Eladiun]

/not signed

[Kinerd]

The grind is part of the game, if you don't like it, you don't have to do it.

You can always make the game more grindy by just not accepting the item. It is not possible to make the game less grindy by accepting an item that isn't offered to you.

[Uska]

LMAO... it isn't a popular idea but it keeps being brought up. I see your logic completely.

To the Op~ I like the idea and I even made a suggestion post about this very same thing a few months ago. My idea involved a cleansing sigil after a certain number of raids to cleanse 1 item and make it BTA/BTCOE my proposed number was 60 raids.

You will never be able to make someone who has only played the game for a year understand that some of us have characters that have been playing the game since launch. Back in the day it was beneficial to short man raids and that some of us already have full sets of raid loot that just sits in the bank. On the plus side you can always keep all your loot and when you TR you have a nice little present waiting for you. By the way I put a lot of raid loot up for roll, always have and always will even if this is implemented. Many times I have ran a Titan raid and had loot drop that no one in the group could use like a docent.

It is unfortunate that there are a few people on the forums though that will flame you to death over this. Even though the loot you choose to pull or put up for roll has no bearing how powerful anyones character is or ever will be other than your own. The mere thought of someone having something they don't makes them cringe.

TLDR; /signed

been here since beta and this ranks amoung the top 5 worst ideas ever period. and yes I remember shortmanning raids and getting ripped off on loot.

[Uska]

This argument was used when they were about to implement TR. Loot still gets rolled a lot.

not even close to the samething and many wont ever tr its a horrible borring grind(yeah I do it on a couple of characters) and I dont ask for loot to use for when I tr.