is a non gimp possible on 28 pt builds?

[Mike1w]

I only have 28 pt right now, and will be a while afore 32+ comes around to me. Can I have a decent build on 28 pt. All the builds I read on threads are 32 or more.

[Xalerwons]

Stop spamming the forums with multiple threads on the same topic.

Just pick a build, and level it to 20, instead of messing around with hundreds of builds in the low levels and never learning anything about higher content.

You're setting yourself to be completely dependent on others for your own character.

[katana_one]

I think the difference it makes is actually rather small except for the most optimized of builds. You'll do just fine with 28 points in my opinion. I've been playing for a year with only 28 point builds and having a blast. If I feel gimped it's because I don't min-max, not because I don't have 4 more build points starting out on a new character.

[markusthelion]

Don't be mislead in thinking you'll be gimp with a 28pt build. ANY build can achieve greatness without 4 more build pts. The min/max guys here on the forums are just that.....min/max guys. If it isn't max dps or max ac or whatever its /fail to them, but that doesn't mean it isn't playable.

The big thing is, deep multiclass builds sometimes rely on more build pts for a certain dc or feat. Also I think pallys get the short end of the stick on 28pt builds because they're so stat spread. Pick a class that max's a couple stats, and has a third 'kinda high' stat and you'll do fine. Add a couple of tomes when you can afford to and play ddo the way YOU want to. Sure you won't be 'the uberz' but your toon will not be gimp....because of build points anyways.

[markusthelion]

Just pick a build, and level it to 20, instead of messing around with hundreds of builds in the low levels and never learning anything about higher content.

This is bad advice.

It took me a few builds to find one that I felt comfortable with (and liked) to level all the way to 20. Theres nothing wrong with asking frequent questions, and theres certainly nothing wrong with playing low levels. High end content may be YOUR style, but it isn't YOUR account. Don't bash people for trying to find something thats right for THEM.

[andbr22]

My only lv 20 is 28 build (32 build (that favor I got to unlock it) is learning its way to 20).

What does those 4 point matter? What are they used for?
- It is additional +2, or +1 in supportive tests.
- Gaining character vertsality (ok I put some points into charisma so I can UMD with a bit of gear).
- Getting usefull thos very stat starving builds (monks, paladins, AC tanks)
- Geting your caster some Str to melee throught low levels, and to make it not to burden yourselv too much.

For my elven fighter it meant 2 more con to get 20 additional HP (no a lot - since at epic trash monsters hit for 40-60).
Usually the more important for builds are tomes that they use (especially +2 Dex at 7 if you TWF, +2 Intat 7 for additional skill points on skill starving classes (ok it sounds stupid, but it is annoying when fighter can't get up because he don't have balance)).

[Nick_RC]

Stick to one dimensional builds for the most part without too many feats that require excessive stat distribution outside of ur 2 primary stats.

For examplea pure barb or fighter would do fine. But 2 handed would give a stronger 28p build than 2wf in general because of the high dex requirement for g2wf.

N

[Freeman]

For something like a pure THF barbarian, wizard, sorc or cleric, the extra four points really makes little difference. In 99% of cases, the only person that will ever notice a difference between the two builds is the person playing the character, and that's only because you see the character sheet. I still had several 28pt characters before reincarnations came along, and they were just as capable as my 32pt builds.

[Mike1w]

thanks. I've decided I'll just go with the flow of the game. Its only a game, after all.

[PNellesen]

I've got a Elf pure Tempest Ranger who's at 19 now, and started as a 28pt build. He's my favorite character to play, and does just fine in most any quest/raid he joins. He might not do nearly as much damage as other melees, and his HP [338 without ship buffs] might not be enough to be a tank, but otherwise he's pretty solid. In fact, on more than one occasion has saved a party wipe by being the only one left to pick up the stones and get them back to the shrine. So yeah, as long as you play to their strengths I see no reason a 28pt build has to be "gimped".

(Disclaimer - I did find a +2 CON tome for him early on, and he took a +2 STR tome when he hit 1750 favor, so technically he hasn't been a "28pt" build for a while...)

[Entelech]

Pen-and-Paper AD&D coined a term called "MAD" -- short for "Multiple Attribute Dependency" -- to describe certain classes and builds.

For example, Monks need good Strength (for damage), good Con (for Hitpoints), good Dex and Wis (for AC and special attacks) and can really only neglect Charisma and Intelligence.

Compare this to, say, a Barbarian, who really only needs Strength and Constitution. Or a Wizard, who needs an 18 Int and then puts all remaining points into Constitution for the hitpoints.


You definitely CAN be a nongimp on a 28-point build...but I'd encourage you to pick a character type that can afford to neglect several stats. Barbarian, Wizard, Cleric, or Fighter are probably the best places to look. Avoid Monk, Paladin, and most heavily Rogue-based builds.

[Sani_Medicor]

I only have 28 pt right now, and will be a while afore 32+ comes around to me. Can I have a decent build on 28 pt. All the builds I read on threads are 32 or more.

Click on the 14/4/2 Beefcake Too build in my signature. The 28pts stats are listed at the top of the post. You won't be disappointed.

[wax_on_wax_off]

thanks. I've decided I'll just go with the flow of the game. Its only a game, after all.

That's the way!

In the end, some builds will not suffer being 28 point builds, others will.

(won't mind: cleric, wizard, sorcerer, fighter, barbarian, ranger, paladin)
(will mind: multiclass builds, TWF builds (sometimes), some rogues)

Note: a lot of the builds that are hard to do with 28 points can be done easily with drow (TWF paladin is the main one).

My rule is that any build in which you would have a 17 or 18 starting in a stat (before racials) won't mind being a 28 point build, any that has a max of 16 in a starting stat probably will mind.

[nolaureltree000]

it depends on the class and the build youre going for, but its certainly possible to make a viable toon on a 28 point build. my WIZ is a 28 point build and after some gearing, he is able to FoD/wail things in amarath on normal quite regularly (although he is necro focused).

as long as you know how to play your character intelligently and know what gear to get for them, having less build points becomes less and less of an issue.

[wax_on_wax_off]

it depends on the class and the build youre going for, but its certainly possible to make a viable toon on a 28 point build. my WIZ is a 28 point build and after some gearing, he is able to FoD/wail things in amarath on normal quite regularly (although he is necro focused).

as long as you know how to play your character intelligently and know what gear to get for them, having less build points becomes less and less of an issue.

This is true but not really an accurate portrayal of the differences between 28 and 32 point builds.
A 28 point wizard or a 32 point wizard will have exactly the same wail/finger of death DC as each will start with 16 build points invested into intelligence (the maximum) and this is the stat that determines your DCs (as well as gear, level ups and enhancements).

The difference between a 28 and 32 point wizard will occur in different areas.
32 point options with the remaining 16 build points:
a. 16 build points in constitution for max hp (equates to 20 extra HP at level 20, <5% HP difference to 28 point build).
b. 10 build points into constitution, 6 build points elsewhere:
i. 6 into strength, (very good choice, imo), gives easy melee abilities until gaining higher level spells, good carrying capacity
ii. 6 into charisma, (another good choice), +3 to UMD, probably the most useful at level 20 as it is reasonably difficult and very gear dependent to get no fail heal scrolls at level 20 without a rogue splash or uber gear.

28 point builds with remaining 12 build points:
a. 10 points into constitution, 2 points into strength or charisma (see above)
b. 6 build points into constitution, 6 build points into strength or charisma (see above, again will represent <5% HP difference to a 32 point build)

As can be seen here the primary differences between 28 point and 32 point builds for wizards at least is a small number of HP vs some extra versatility. An arcane should be able to manage over 400 HP with ideal gear even with only a 6 point investment into constitution at character creation (correct me if I'm wrong).

[Rawel_San]

<snip.
ii. 6 into charisma, (another good choice), +3 to UMD, probably the most useful at level 20 as it is reasonably difficult and very gear dependent to get no fail heal scrolls at level 20 without a rogue splash or uber gear.

<snip> An arcane should be able to manage over 400 HP with ideal gear even with only a 6 point investment into constitution at character creation (correct me if I'm wrong).

To be fair without a rogue splash even with the 6 build points in charisma it's pretty painful and needs lots of
"uber" gear to get no fail heal scrolls.

You definitely should be able to get over 400Hp with a 6 point investment into con it will take more grinding
but it's quite possible.

[Dartwick]

Be good at one thing and youll be fine.

A pure fighter or pure barb for instance should work out. I would stay away from monks.