Human FvS - TWF or THF?

[greybucket]

I rolled a TWF Human FvS (Superior Soul) and got him up to lvl6 pretty quickly yesterday, pretty happy with him... however, I'm not impressed with his damage output with longswords. I knew going in that I would be moderate in the DPS department, but I didn't think it would be so luke warm. Got all the buff spells to help with fighting, but my to hit is spotty at times and even running Miserys Peak on elite seemed to take forever to kill things.

So my question is, would it be better to just use a two-handed weapon? From what I've read, its not worth it to go down to THF feat line so I could pick up useful feats earlier and without requiring a 15 in DEX I can even raise STR and/or CON higher.

Also, would I just need to pick up the feat for what two-handed weapon I want to wield or would I also need to pick up the feat for THF and other THF feats?

I'm not interested in playing a WF, just can't bring myself to do it, btw.

Edit - I did LR and reallocate my starting stats, lowering DEX and raising STR and CON. So I do not have the starting stats as a Superior Soul

[Zharfie]

As a human you get to choose between longswords and longbow as the favoured weapon. I would not recommend going THF because of this. When I was leveling my longsword fvs, I often used a single longsword (twinked holy icyburst of maiming or something) and a shield since my to-hit was not high enough (yet!). as you level up and gain more two weapon fighting feats, it will get a lot easier... I think at level 9 you can get improved two weapon fighting, which helps a lot.

my currently level 20 fvs/monk does a ton of damage with longswords and I'm loving it, it's not as much as a barbarian or a fighter but it's still nice... I do have greensteel longswords though...

the added ability to heal is very nice indeed

soloed bastion of power on normal at level 18: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybyS0ID12dg

[VladeD]

I just TRd my Cleric into a STR based THF Human FVS, really solid build. You only need to pick up the weapon feat, no need for any THF related feats.

I also play a Lord of Blades and his DPS is better the human FVS, but human is still really solid and has a few advantages over the WF.

Both can solo Hard/Elite Shavarath.

[herzkos]

using twf at low levels with any character is dodgy at best.
you don't have enough attack bonus to counteract the neg's from wielding
two weapons (even with the feat) especially two large weapons.

so until level 8 or so, even if you're going twf, you're better off swinging
a twohander or going (gasp) sword and board.

later on, both character types are certainly viable so it's all up to what you feel like
doing.

[greybucket]

I have a lvl17 Fighter that used khopeshs, but I made an Exploiter (18/1/1 Ranger/Monk/Rogue) and I gave all of he khops to him. I used dual longswords on him for a little while but was very disappointed with damage, esp with the x2 to crit. While I am not expecting to be uber dps as a FvS, I do expect that going THF will be better damage output, right?

Edit - I do have a Planar Gird and a Bloodstone when he reaches the appropriate level so that will help out with either TWF or THF.

[Matuse]

Khopeshes are stupidly overpowered. Any other one handed weapon is going to look feeble in comparison.

Longswords are just fine. Odds are you are using poor weapons for your level, or just not accounting for the fact that at level 6 you don't have enough stats and feats to do really effective melee.

Melee is also tertiary to the Superior Soul build line. Casting and Healing come in at much higher priorities.

[greybucket]

In the long run, what would be better DPS, TWF Longswords or THF? Also I should add that I am not going the caster route as the Superior Soul does so I'll have even more points to add to STR and CON

[Matuse]

The "caster route" is the Superior Soul's main thing. If you're going with a melee soul, then dip a feat into khopeshes, or go Elf for the monster scimitar bonuses.

Unless you're a warforged (or possibly a horc, but then proficiency becomes an issue), THF is just not going to do very well.

[voodoogroves]

I am playing a thf human right now and she is a beast. I took greataxe and worked a carnifex from fourth to the mid teens. Toughness, proficiency, quicken, maximize, extend, empower or empower healing, improved crit, power attack.

That was the order for the most part. You are not losing much by ignoring the favored weapon and make it up by pushing more strength and ignoring dex, etc. I think I started with 16 each in str,con then split the rest in cha and wis with levels in str. Mine is a blast and is quite solid.

[voodoogroves]

The "caster route" is the Superior Soul's main thing. If you're going with a melee soul, then dip a feat into khopeshes, or go Elf for the monster scimitar bonuses.

Unless you're a warforged (or possibly a horc, but then proficiency becomes an issue), THF is just not going to do very well.

Disagree. I deleted my superior soul and went human with greataxe and find it performs great.

Remember that feat set is the same a war chanter eould run. With the same str, levels into str, same gear how is that going to be bad?

[Logic]

I have had a 20 human longsword melee FvS for quite some time now and it makes a really powerful character. Yes your damage is significantly less than a true melee, but its enough to be moderately effective. And keep in mind that the damage may be a whole lot less compared to a barb or monk or fighter, but if you compare to a paladin or ranger the damage is not that far off.

[Adalita]

Just to echo whats already been said the Superior Soul is very much a caster/healer with some melee ability. You're aiming to be a close to optimal caster at higher levels, with the melee making it easier to level. It sounds like you're more interested in a melee/healer, in which case you'd be better of with a Lord of Blades build. If you want to improve your melee I recommend using the Anger's Gift set from Korthos with as high a + longswords as you can weild at you level (should be +4 at lvl 6), and make sure you are running divine favor and bulls strength (wand/pot/spell).

On a scale of best caster/worst melee to worst caster/best melee the common FvS builds would go something like this:
Evoker - Human TWF (longswords) - Elf w/monk (Scimitars) - WF Lord of Blades (greatsword).

[voodoogroves]

I know it may be hard to believe until you run one but spin up a half orc, half elf, dwarf our human thf favored soul with the feats I listed above before you discount it. A good player can do meaningful dps on a pure fvs using thf and still be a great healer and solid caster. Don't knock it until you actually try it.

It works and mine certainly feels stronger than the superior soul I had before.

I'm not against build that dip monk or something for extra feats to rock the full twf chain, those work great too. Just saying that you can do great with a pure fvs and thf.

[greybucket]

I went ahead and made the switch to THF earlier and have been playing it awhile today. So far I am happier with the results. I am pleased with the change so far while going from lvl6 to 7. At lvl9 I will probably be picking up greatswords at lvl10 for the Blade of Fury and stay with it from that point on. Its nice not having to worry about my to-hit and only upgrading 1 weapon as opposed to 2.

I think that if I was going to TWF route, I'd be better off splashing with two Monk and going Elf with scimmys. I might. Have been a little better off going WF for Lord of Bladed but like I said before, just can't bring myself to play those ugly things. May feel different when I TR this guy, though. Right now, I am having a lot of fun with him.

[voodoogroves]

Carnifex from deleras rocks. It is so much easier to swing the two hander and you will have plenty of room for your casting and healing feats. See if you can get a Sword of Shadow from the Vault of Night too. If not just work on greensteel.

No dipping required, pure fvs. I love mine. You can always slot on a shield or a few casting weaps when you fill specific roles in raids.

Apologies for any typos ... Swype is sometimes funky.

[aristarchus1000]

Regardless of what you do in the end, THF is almost always going to be better than TWF before level 12. After you get Greater TWF, the dps gets better than THF, but you have to balance that with the cost of feats. Favored Souls really struggle to a shortage of feats.

Personally, I like TWF on my fighters or other characters with plenty of feats. I tried TWF with an elf with scimmis and monk splash, but after a while I decided that I prefer the stronger healing ability of a pure FvS. Since it is so hard to fit the feats in, I went THF since your dps can still be quite acceptable with just IC:Slash and Power Attack, and without the THF feat line.