Attitude

[GBantaR]

I want to bring up a point about people who complain game elements are "OP," "too hard," etc.

There have been a few threads I've read in the last couple of months complaining about this or that quest, boss, whatever, saying how hard it was and that it was "overpowered" and needed to be nerfed. One was on a self-healing boss in Running With The Devils (forget his name but you probably know the one), one was on a Vampire in Necropolis that is very powerful, one was on Epic Drow and one was on Tomb of the Tormented. The common denominator of all these threads is that the game actually needed to be modified because THEY couldn't beat that part of the game.

I want to offer one piece of data to start off with:

EVERY PART OF THIS GAME HAS BEEN SOLOED AT LEVEL BY EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME BY SEVERAL DIFFERENT PEOPLE - excluding the quests that CANNOT physically be soloed by one person (and those are fewer than you would think).

MrCow is an excellent example. He probably has a video for every single quest in the game, all of them soloed with his Warforged Wizard. Lest you think that only these self-healing casting monstrosities can do it, if you dig deep enough you will find that every quest in the game has been soloed by anything you could name - Rogues, Fighters, Rangers, Barbs - by someone out there. Yes, even Epics. Yes, even Raids.

As long as you don't physically have to have two different people pull two different levers at the same time on different sides of a wall (like in VON 5) every quest has been soloed. There are probably people who have gotten some friends to open the door in VON 5 and then gone on to solo the rest of THAT quest.

Why do I bring this up? Well, if the above is true (and it is, upon investigation) then there is a corollary datum:

IF YOU CANNOT GET PAST A PART OF THIS GAME, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BUILD, YOUR PLAYSTYLE OR YOUR KNOWLEDGE - THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE QUEST.

If it CAN be gotten past (and it has) and YOU cannot get past it, YOU need to change something. The game does not need to change. Unless you believe that the game was designed specifically for YOU and none of the other people playing it - these are such a fringe minority of mental cases that I will ignore them in my discussion.

---

If you come to the forums with a problem, virtually everyone here will fall all over themselves giving you advice about how to get past it. For one thing, it makes them feel kind of cool. I know that when I give advice to someone newer than myself (and that's pretty new, I'll admit) and it works, I kind of enjoy the "Wow, dude, that's awesome" reaction I get from them. For another thing, most of the vets around here have run every quest in the game so many times that they know EXACTLY what you need to change in a minimum of time and effort to get past that part of the quest.

Sadly, advice cannot always be delivered gracefully. Some people get their kicks from making others feel smaller or weaker than themselves. So you will sometimes get good advice delivered rudely. Be very, very wary in this case. The best advice-givers always do so politely if you ask politely. If you get rude advice, the person giving it is probably an "UBER-L337 HAXORZ" type of player who is, at best, mediocre in-game and probably doesn't know what he's talking about. The false information they provide can sometimes spread around rather quickly before the cleverer, level-headed vets stamp it out.

But courtesy goes both ways. If your request for advice is rude or is actually a request for a nerf, expect to get ragged on quite heavily by the forum-ites. They love their game and their community and they hate to see anyone coming in and trying to trash-talk it.

An incorrect request for advice might be:

"NO ONE could possibly beat Chronoscope at level! Forget this, I guess I'm never going to run it until I'm level 16+ or can have a lvl 20 hand-hold me through it. Or until they nerf it because I KNOW other people must be having problems with it, too."

You will not receive a favorable reply with the above. However, if you came here with this:

"OK, I've tried Chronoscope at level until I'm blue in the face and it's wiping the floor with me every time. What is the deal? I'm a level 6 Barb with Carnifex, and I've tried both leading and following - no dice. Someone have a strategy guide or video I could watch of an actual at-level run? I honestly don't know what to do."

I can assure you, you wouldn't get as many responses as the first post - because you wouldn't get all the flame wars that would result. You WOULD, however, probably get three or four replies with the strategy guides, videos and general advice about how to accomplish your objective.

---

My point: Things should not be made easier because YOU can't beat them. But you can be educated to the point where you can yawn while beating any obstacle in the game. It may take time and patience, but them's the breaks. And if you don't come on here and ask for the game to be nerfed into a WoW clone, we can avoid a lot of unnecessary drama on the forums. (Much to the dismay of most Khyber players, no doubt )

[rkreutz]

bump.
too good to be lost in forums vastness.

[Musouka]

My point: Things should not be made easier because YOU can't beat them. But you can be educated to the point where you can yawn while beating any obstacle in the game. It may take time and patience, but them's the breaks. And if you don't come on here and ask for the game to be nerfed into a WoW clone, we can avoid a lot of unnecessary drama on the forums.

+1 and totally agree.

[Grecan]

I want to bring up a point about people who complain game elements are "OP," "too hard," etc.

There have been a few threads I've read in the last couple of months complaining about this or that quest, boss, whatever, saying how hard it was and that it was "overpowered" and needed to be nerfed. One was on a self-healing boss in Running With The Devils (forget his name but you probably know the one), one was on a Vampire in Necropolis that is very powerful, one was on Epic Drow and one was on Tomb of the Tormented. The common denominator of all these threads is that the game actually needed to be modified because THEY couldn't beat that part of the game.

I want to offer one piece of data to start off with:

EVERY PART OF THIS GAME HAS BEEN SOLOED AT LEVEL BY EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME BY SEVERAL DIFFERENT PEOPLE - excluding the quests that CANNOT physically be soloed by one person (and those are fewer than you would think).

MrCow is an excellent example. He probably has a video for every single quest in the game, all of them soloed with his Warforged Wizard. Lest you think that only these self-healing casting monstrosities can do it, if you dig deep enough you will find that every quest in the game has been soloed by anything you could name - Rogues, Fighters, Rangers, Barbs - by someone out there. Yes, even Epics. Yes, even Raids.

As long as you don't physically have to have two different people pull two different levers at the same time on different sides of a wall (like in VON 5) every quest has been soloed. There are probably people who have gotten some friends to open the door in VON 5 and then gone on to solo the rest of THAT quest.

Why do I bring this up? Well, if the above is true (and it is, upon investigation) then there is a corollary datum:

IF YOU CANNOT GET PAST A PART OF THIS GAME, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BUILD, YOUR PLAYSTYLE OR YOUR KNOWLEDGE - THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE QUEST.

If it CAN be gotten past (and it has) and YOU cannot get past it, YOU need to change something. The game does not need to change. Unless you believe that the game was designed specifically for YOU and none of the other people playing it - these are such a fringe minority of mental cases that I will ignore them in my discussion.

---

If you come to the forums with a problem, virtually everyone here will fall all over themselves giving you advice about how to get past it. For one thing, it makes them feel kind of cool. I know that when I give advice to someone newer than myself (and that's pretty new, I'll admit) and it works, I kind of enjoy the "Wow, dude, that's awesome" reaction I get from them. For another thing, most of the vets around here have run every quest in the game so many times that they know EXACTLY what you need to change in a minimum of time and effort to get past that part of the quest.

Sadly, advice cannot always be delivered gracefully. Some people get their kicks from making others feel smaller or weaker than themselves. So you will sometimes get good advice delivered rudely. Be very, very wary in this case. The best advice-givers always do so politely if you ask politely. If you get rude advice, the person giving it is probably an "UBER-L337 HAXORZ" type of player who is, at best, mediocre in-game and probably doesn't know what he's talking about. The false information they provide can sometimes spread around rather quickly before the cleverer, level-headed vets stamp it out.

But courtesy goes both ways. If your request for advice is rude or is actually a request for a nerf, expect to get ragged on quite heavily by the forum-ites. They love their game and their community and they hate to see anyone coming in and trying to trash-talk it.

An incorrect request for advice might be:

"NO ONE could possibly beat Chronoscope at level! Forget this, I guess I'm never going to run it until I'm level 16+ or can have a lvl 20 hand-hold me through it. Or until they nerf it because I KNOW other people must be having problems with it, too."

You will not receive a favorable reply with the above. However, if you came here with this:

"OK, I've tried Chronoscope at level until I'm blue in the face and it's wiping the floor with me every time. What is the deal? I'm a level 6 Barb with Carnifex, and I've tried both leading and following - no dice. Someone have a strategy guide or video I could watch of an actual at-level run? I honestly don't know what to do."

I can assure you, you wouldn't get as many responses as the first post - because you wouldn't get all the flame wars that would result. You WOULD, however, probably get three or four replies with the strategy guides, videos and general advice about how to accomplish your objective.

---

My point: Things should not be made easier because YOU can't beat them. But you can be educated to the point where you can yawn while beating any obstacle in the game. It may take time and patience, but them's the breaks. And if you don't come on here and ask for the game to be nerfed into a WoW clone, we can avoid a lot of unnecessary drama on the forums. (Much to the dismay of most Khyber players, no doubt )

It's impossible to read such an invincible post!


You should nerf it to at least half the size!

[Trample]

I rarely bother to, but for what its worth +1 to you. well said.

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

Good advice and post (+1 to you). Sadly those have been around for a while know that Turbine will indeed nerf these quests/AI/mobs/etc when enough whiners get going on a roll. And from a business perspective, I guess who can blame them, they've made a bundle from putting the easy button in place, especially with the implementation of the DDO store.

[r3dl4nce]

Let's hope people will learn to play and less to complain. +1 to you!

[Cyr]

EVERY PART OF THIS GAME HAS BEEN SOLOED AT LEVEL BY EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME BY SEVERAL DIFFERENT PEOPLE - excluding the quests that CANNOT physically be soloed by one person (and those are fewer than you would think).

Neat, show me all those videos of fighters, barbs, pali's, rangers, and rogues solo'ing epic OOB, elite hound, epic atdq, epic dq2...

[NinjaCereal]

I think another problem is that people seem to forget what the second 'M' in 'MMORPG' stands for. Obviously it's possible, but this game wasn't designed to be soloed.

[hermespan]

all that posting OP and UP posts does is get perfectly fine classes or adventures nerfed, worst case. Best case you get other n00bs to agree with you and you all wallow in a big puddle of hopelessness.

Want to be constructive? Start your post with "I'm having trouble, how do I beat this?".

+1

My sentiments exactly.