Mana vs Turns = Wisdom Vs. Charisma

[kjohnson1990]

This question has been bugging me all week so i thought i'd take it to the forums for some advice.

Wisdom. How much does it really help a cleric?
How much SP does it give at level 20?
For each plus?

Like +5 (20 wisdom)
Versus +11(32 wisdom)

Whats the difference?

If your a pure healer, does it matter if you have DC or not?

I'm a 14 TR Cleric, but I like to prefer to Heal than do damage, aka Healbot. So do i really need all that wisdom if i'm not going to focus on DC?

Would it not be better for me to go charisma and use the turns for healing? While turns are limited, at least they regenerate.... unlike my SP.


Please be nice when explaining.

[Shyver]

Honestly if you enjoy being a nanny-bot that's fine, but if you're chilling in the back it would be of a greater benefit to your party if you maxed out wisdom and became an offensive caster with great healing too.

A well placed greater command, soundburst, or blade barrier can really make the quest easier not only on the party, but on you too. Monsters chilling on their collective asses can't harm the party so your life is easier.

So I say go nuts on wisdom and then charisma.

[xanvar]

Even in a healbot in my opinion you should still keep your wisdom maxed. Just because your not intending to throw BB all the time does not mean that you should never throw it. If you can help your party kill things faster that means less healing for you right? I am sure some guy will come in here with spread sheets and tell you exactly what the mathmatical best breaking point is, but for me I like to max wis.

[biggin]

Well, if you think about it, you kind of answered your own question.

Since your turns regenerate, there's really no point in having a large number of them. If you are going for backlines healer, why not just pump the SP and DC with WIS? You don't have to offensively cast, but it's there if you need it. However if you dump WIS for CHA, all you are doing in effect is giving yourself more heals.....doesn't really make sense since SP can be used for either healing or CC/Damage.

On the other hand if you were going for a melee focus, it would make sense IMO to dump some WIS, take a few points of CHA, so you would have points leftover for STR and/or DEX. However it sounds like you want to primarily focus on heals, so I would recommend keeping WIS high, around 15-16+, and maybe put a few points into CHA to give you those extra healing auras/bursts that you want.

I don't think it's ever a good idea to dump WIS on a divine unless you plan on trying to be an effective melee.

[Jakarr]

Please be nice when explaining.

Mommy always told me "If you have nothing nice to say, then dont say anything"

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[flynnjsw]

Mommy always told me "If you have nothing nice to say, then dont say anything"

......................

Mine told me the same thing, but I don't always listen.

OP, everyone else has already pretty much nailed it. You are better off maxing Wisdom so that you can mitigate damage, then you won't have to worry as much about healing damage.

[kjohnson1990]

Yeah, THx all. Thats pretty much all i needed to hear. I was just debating picking up charisma instead of wisdom for more versatility. Not only would i be able to heal with turns but use them to increase my melee potential. But its all in vain. I'm keeping my wisdom and con maxed. Thanks all!

[Narse]

I can answer some of your questions with a chart a few weeks ago and this is what I learned.

Wisdom to Spell Points largely depends on level. Spell points gained from Wisdom are higher when your level is higher, but the overall range is pretty small. At 1 it starts at 10 for every 2 wisdom, and goes up by +1 for every level. So the same 2 points of wisdom at level 20 is equal to 29 spell points.

Spell points depend on level, at level 20 you should gain 100, at 19-95, at 18-90, at 17-85.

So, the difference between 16 wisdom and 18 wisdom is pretty minor, 29 spell points and the DC n-stuff. I would think to me personally that those 6 creation stat points would be better spent elsewhere. (assuming of course you can utilize them efficiently)

[AtomicMew]

I'll offer an alternative point of view: you shouldn't max either. 16/14 WIS/CHA is a MUCH better split than 18/8 or 8/18, for example, because you basically gain 6 to your CHA score for a -1 to DC and a little bit of mana, which will hardly matter. From a healing perspective, you gain quite a bit more healing resources with the 16/14 split, and in end-game raids, that's really all that matters.... Role specialization, etc. Of course, you'll still be more than competent for normal content offensive casting, if that's your thing.

[Tumarek]

Turns: Base = charisma Mod +3

so lets take a worst case scenario: dwarf with dumped charisma: 6 so thats -2 on mod and 1 turn

Turns:
1 - Base
3 - Char item +6
1 - +2 Char tome
1 - Char Enhancements
4 - extra Turn Enhancements
1 - Passive TR Feat
---
11 - With just a little work

2 - Lesser turning item like Signal of the silver flame or shield, both out of necro with scarab dust
4 - Extra Turning feat

17 - With small investments

11 Is enough turns to get through most content without running out, 17 is already overkill. So no you dont need to work on your charisma to get more turns. You probably didnt even dump it and can easily get around 15 turns without feat or item help.

[Noctus]

Honestly if you enjoy being a nanny-bot that's fine, but if you're chilling in the back it would be of a greater benefit to your party if you maxed out wisdom and became an offensive caster with great healing too.

A well placed greater command, soundburst, or blade barrier can really make the quest easier not only on the party, but on you too. Monsters chilling on their collective asses can't harm the party so your life is easier.

So I say go nuts on wisdom and then charisma.

Point.

Only thing to add:
Do not forget CON in between. dead healer is the start to a party wipe.

[AtomicMew]

Turns: Base = charisma Mod +3

so lets take a worst case scenario: dwarf with dumped charisma: 6 so thats -2 on mod and 1 turn

Turns:
1 - Base
3 - Char item +6
1 - +2 Char tome
1 - Char Enhancements
4 - extra Turn Enhancements
1 - Passive TR Feat
---
11 - With just a little work

2 - Lesser turning item like Signal of the silver flame or shield, both out of necro with scarab dust
4 - Extra Turning feat

17 - With small investments

11 Is enough turns to get through most content without running out, 17 is already overkill. So no you dont need to work on your charisma to get more turns. You probably didnt even dump it and can easily get around 15 turns without feat or item help.

How many turns you can get is totally irrelevant.

Each turn is equivalent to ~60 mana. More if you want to juggle metas. Additional turns add ~60 "effective mana" to your mana pool because that's one less heal you have to cast from mana. That's more than the 29 mana you'd get from equivalent wisdom, even assuming the same ability point cost, which isn't the case when you take WIS from 16 to 18.

Both turns and mana add to your sum total of resources, and it's simply an optimization problem to find the point where you maximize. There is no point at which having more resources is ever "overkill".

[DFraser]

As a former healbot, I have debated it myself. Here are the facts RS 1&2 need to center on you, Mass cure X does not. The turns comeback your SP do not. Your SP are more versital then turns are. Go with Wis then Cha and Con. There will be a time when like me you realize that combat casting is needed and that means SP. I still mostly heal unless I am in an undead run and then there is never enough turns.
I hope that helps.