Female warforged?

[uhgungawa]

All you basement nerds unite so you can finally my your dream sexbot in DDO.

It really doesn't matter too much, but there should be at least a little difference between the male and female.

[Lleren]

PS. There shouldn't be female dwarves either and all elves should look females.

I'm told there are female Dwarves out there somewhere, but they all look alike to me. Presumably they can tell the difference.

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I would like to see Warforged Scout, or other models be an option.
I would not like to see all Warforged that happen to have a girly voice suddenly get a new body type. I think the forum rage would be amazing, and Turbine would lose much income.
I would have no problem with a conversion kit for Warforged to a more feminine form.
Or a Girdle of Masculinity/Feminity being added to the game.

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I have yet to meet a "serious" Martial Artist that was not trying to become stronger/faster/tougher/more skilled. I presume, since they appear to know thier various arts, that becoming all of those is worthwhile for them, and provides an advantage.

If yer interesting in Martial arts talk, you might want to do a search for Bullshido, an interesting forum debunking a lot of Martial Art fraudsters.

[FoxCourier]

PS. There shouldn't be female dwarves either

Even Tolkein had female dwarves - they were just never seen outside of the dwarven holds, not out of some kind of misogynist fault of dwarven society, but because the grand majority of them chose it out of dedication to dwarven society and families. Dwarven males got out a bit more for similar reasons.

EDIT: Well, and there's the fact that dwarven women have beards and are so similar to dwarf men in temperament and appearance they are often mistaken for dwarf men.

D&D, on the other hand, has had female dwarves since at least 1st Edition.

and all elves should look females.

And this one's just idiocy or closet fantasies best kept to yourself, sir.

[Gulnar13]

I guess someone irony detector is broken.

Anyway, while as a proud warforged i am against male/female distionctions (we are constructs! We don't need those *petty* differences, those *flaws* of the meatbags!), i would not be against the inclusion of the wf scout - even if the model was more slender, and more... femine-looking.

Also, if the "wf female kit" could be implemented without the need of wasting time on it from more important things (like, for example, prestige classes, druids, new quests...) i would not be against it.

[Ungood]

I guess someone irony detector is broken.

Anyway, while as a proud warforged i am against male/female distionctions (we are constructs! We don't need those *petty* differences, those *flaws* of the meatbags!), i would not be against the inclusion of the wf scout - even if the model was more slender, and more... femine-looking.

Also, if the "wf female kit" could be implemented without the need of wasting time on it from more important things (like, for example, prestige classes, druids, new quests...) i would not be against it.

Make it, Put in the store as a "Cosmetic Option" that way it pays for itself and it's open to those that want it. Make it open any WF, who wants a more "Scout" look, regardless of what gender they picked.

Problem solved!

[TreknaQudane]

Make it, Put in the store as a "Cosmetic Option" that way it pays for itself and it's open to those that want it. Make it open any WF, who wants a more "Scout" look, regardless of what gender they picked.

Problem solved!

Or better yet ask for Turbine to make WF Scout as a Race and leave WF the way they are supposed to look and let those that want lithe creatures take them.

[yohoia]

I agree. I always play female toons and I just cannot stand the look of the warforged. It is really sad to miss out on playing one, but I have tried and never made it past lvl 4; they are just too ugly.

PS. On the other hand I would rather have the developers remake the half-elves; they are just miserable, both the female and male versions

[erichawk]

[QUOTE=Gulnar13;3505998]I guess someone irony detector is broken.

Anyway, while as a proud warforged i am against male/female distionctions (we are constructs! We don't need those *petty* differences, those *flaws* of the meatbags!), i would not be against the inclusion of the wf scout - even if the model was more slender, and more... femine-looking.

I agree with this sentiment. The warforged are definitely a "form follows function" race. For the warforged, gender is not a physical state, it's a psychological state, and the dimorphic nature of other races don't apply to them, as their production doesn't require it. I don't even like the idea that their voices/grunts are differentiated, as it might detract from "unit cohesion". If there is a reason for a female form, sure, but it would be some out-of-the-ordinary occurrence, given their primary mission prior to the Treaty of Thronehold. The fact that they are even as humanoid-appearing as they are is possibly due to biases in their creators, their understanding of humanoid physiology and function, or the need to interact with humanoids in a military-style fashion, without taking even more hits in charisma (compare with shardminds or modrons).

[Delolith]

It isn't a coincidence that men were the primary instruments of war through 99% of history. From that, it is simply inductive reasoning that "War"forged would be at least slightly more "male" in character. There is absolutely zero reason why WF would have boobs, for example.

Sorry but that is utterly wrong to base it on biological facts.

I will agree that human males tend to have higher strength due to higher muscle mass and density due to testosterone levels that cannot be matched by females without some serious "supplements".

However, the fact that in modern and ancient warfare battles are male dominated has to do with how the male-dominated societies work. In case you consider some mitriarchic or even male excluded societies (like Amazons or some references to really ancient Greeks societies) you will see that this rule doesn't apply.

Also a few things to consider. Since indeed women's body is biologically different for reproduction makes men even more "dispensable" in cases of crisis. One male could give rise to many offsprings in the presence of a large women population. One woman cannot do that in the presence of many males.

Also in modern warfare as you state, strength has little to do when cunningness and ruthlessness are probably no 1 attributes of the "good soldier". Tolerance to pain is also a very very worthwhile advantage. Want me to tell you biologically who has better tolerance to pain and who assumes the most ruthless attitude when under pressure to survive? The only reason you do not apply this to modern society is due to the fact that women do not tend to train for such things.

[PopeJual]

It isn't a coincidence that men were the primary instruments of war through 99% of history. From that, it is simply inductive reasoning that "War"forged would be at least slightly more "male" in character.

Since someone else quoted this, I'll just chime in with my two copper pieces.

The reason why men were the primary instruments of war through 99% of history is that men are disposeable. If you lose 60% of your male population in some kind of catastrophe, you'll easily bounce back within a generation. If you lose 60% of your female population, your group will take a lot longer to bounce back.

An occasional male death isn't really a problem for most societies, so putting men into dangerous jobs just made sense.

[locus]

The rock golem in Dragon Age did perfectly fine without a feminine shape. Warforged just need an option to stick gems of various colors all over their bodies.

(What the hell did this thread become on page 7, re: the above few discussions. *facepalms*)

[Drakos]

Yes, I do consider androids to be like humans.
Oh, and yes Warforged are like humans and yes they are machines (constructs technically). The living part is a subtype, just like the Extraplanar subtype gained by everyone when they enter VoN or even the explorer/quests of the devil's battle field, and while it alters the rules of their type, it never changes it. Interesting note, an Awakened Golem (D&D) is very much as alive but never gains that subtype for being so. Try a little research before posting your opinion as a correction at someone.

I was with you until this. Awakened Constructs are not "living" they do not gain a CON score from the Awakening spell. They gain mental attibutes. They are still true constructs and retain all benefits such as immunity to things requiring a Fortitude save and cannot be resurected (as living constructs can). Sorry, but all the research in the world doesn't change this.

As for the OP, I have to say /not signed. They implemented the apperance of WF that WotC put forward. WF do no actualy have different sexes but some adopt a distinctly Male or Female personality, they were all built to basically look the same because the creation forges had limited number of patterns. Yes individual WF can make minor structural changes, attaching parts to personalize their look, but major structural changes cannot be done. This is evidenced by the fact that in D&D the body feats (Mithril Body, Adamantine Body, etc...) must be taken at 1st level.

Primarily I am not behind this because I think there are better places for the Dev teams to put their time than giving WF machine gun jubblies option. If they were to devote resouces to WF appearence I would love to see work on attached components sucs as Sword Arm and Bow Arm.

[Drakos]

Turbine CLEARLY designed it to look like a football linebacker. There's no reason not to add female warforged to the game.

Turbin didn't design them at all. Turbin implemented them as they are in the source material. Their is no reason to add female WF into the game either.

[Drakos]

Would a martial artist own everyone? No. Would an "Arnold Schwarzenegger" own everyone? No. Would a heavily armored person kill everything? No. Would a nuclear bomb own everything? Yes. But is there anyone who is a walking nuclear bomb? No.

But I hope we can all agree the Chuck Noris WOULD own everyone right?

[FoxCourier]

But I hope we can all agree the Chuck Noris WOULD own everyone right?

I just can't think of Norris the same after this.

http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/499

The martial arts thing was also a total tangent that barely had anything at all to do relative to the topic at hand anyway, though. I mean, the Cyre artificers could make ballistae that spewed lightning and flame. I'm pretty sure they could have built the warforged to look like kittens and probably still make up for it somewhere along the way with technomagical-babble filled explanations of why it can bench press small wagons over it's head.

...sorry, that rant was a long time forming.

I still put forth that the only reason that Warforged look more 'male' in general is because it's a human gender identification trait to determine gender on whether or not something has what we generally attribute to female anatomy (barring facial hair and other minor differences that can technically not be a good indicator due to the wide gene diversity we as humans have). :B

[FangOfAsgard]

at the vary least turbine could make a scout aka slender type body for the female minded warforged im not saying they need breasts or anything but it could benefit character designs ...

[Fishcatch22]

at the vary least turbine could make a scout aka slender type body for the female minded warforged im not saying they need breasts or anything but it could benefit character designs ...

Really, this has been talked to death already....

[Hercanic]

Beat me to it. Female looking WF are lore appropriate. As for them being rare, you bet. But guess what? In D&D, the very nature of the PCs is that they are exceptional, rare people that do stuff the majority of the population can't. There's no reason in the lore, and in the D&D rationale, to not give us female-shaped WF.

Also, like the OP's wife, my wife will not buy WF, even though she wants to make a caster and is attracted by the power of a WF caster, because they are not pretty. Female body, smoother plates and parts, prettier face options, and bam! Money in Turbine's pocket.

Excellent post, good sir, I heartily agree. My own wife has no interest in playing a WF for similar reasons (all her characters are female).

As for all the posts about what women "biologically" can and cannot do, they've very obviously missed the point. For the same reasons that many men like playing male characters, many women like playing female characters. Simple as that. The body type is relatable.

Secondly, on the topic of "biology", we're not talking about average, real-life human women. We're talking about high fantasy heroes made of wood and metal (which in and of itself already has a different distribution of density and weight over flesh and bone).

Many Warforged may have started as carbon-copy shocktroops, but a character backstory allows for so much more. As it has already been pointed out, there is lore in place that allows for female Warforged body-shapes. Rare, perhaps, but every player character is rare when considering the millions of average NPCs that move about the world. So, if my wife wants to start a female Warforged who was originally created with a female body to serve as a diplomat, or perhaps began as a shocktroop who, through modifications, achieved an outward appearance to match its gender identity/personality, why not let her by including a female body shape option?

Let me start by saying I'm a female player. ...In the end its a game. Fantasy. I understand the lore perspective, the natural biology perspective, the combat etc. But the current appearance of warforged does tend towards male. Ok, no big deal. Would I purchase the ability to make my warforged females appear more female? Yes, in a heart beat. Because it would make me happier and more comfortable with my "female" warforged characters. That's player satisfaction, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with lore, real life biology, or the mechanics of combat. Would this monetarily benefit DDO versus other efforts? IDK. How could I even begin to guess? The few discussions I've seen on this topic all degenerate to the above arguments or similiar. I have no knowledge of coding either so I cannot begin to comprehend the efforts or expense involved in implementing female warforged aesthetics. Perhaps a poll would be the first step? Just a simple yes or no vote, would you spend money to make your warforged look more female? My vote ...yes.

Very well-said.

As for the coding required, it's really more of a project for the art team than the programming department. Turbine would need to create the model, texture it appropriately (including customization options), adjust or remodel the existing armor types to account for the new body shape, and rig the model to their default animation sets (with adjustments and tweaks where needed). With the art assets completed, it'd just be a matter of dropping them into the data directory and coding the necessary object calls (where malewarforged.mdl is called to display for a female Warforged, rewrite the call to use femalewarforged.mdl). Done.



Fish:
The topic started just this December, and only had a four week lull in discussion. I don't see this as thread necromancy.