Is heighten worthwhile in endgame?

[djangonautic]

I currently have a Lvl 11 AM Drow Enchantment main spec'ed,Evocation secondary. I took heighten fairly early assuming that it would help with CC DC's, but so far i haven't really needed it. I have been looking at a lot of different enchanter AM's and don't really see heighten chosen that often. I'm wondering if i should switch it out for quicken, which i had not really considered as warranting a feat slot over heighten initially. I do plan on taking this toon into epics later on, so i'd like peoples opinion on which feat is more usefull

[Hobgoblin]

yes

im not speced for fts, and can land it fairly reliable in epics with heighten on, and not with it off

hob

[thegreatneil]

I took heighten a level 10.
An that felt like to long to wait.

[Vellrad]

My build is pretty messed up, and I don't have this feat, but I can't say that I really miss it.
Its because I don't cast any low level spells, because all of them have improved, higher level versions.
For example, web, which is, in most player's point of viev, best CC spell, and main (if not only reason) to take heighten and spell focus (conjuration) basically works the same as Otto's sphere of dancing- the differences are the detail- save type, duration, AoE radius etc.
Mass sugesstion is improved suggestion, dominate monster is improved dominate person (which is improved charm person) etc.
You need heighten or not, depends only on which spells are you going to use at endgame.
Mass hold monsters gets absolutely no benefits from said feat, OSoD gets +2 DC, and mentioned web, +7.
Archmages SLAs which posses DCs, however, are almost useless without heighten, and with this feat they are really worth of taking and using.

[mediocresurgeon]

Heighten is a must-have for any pure wizard.

[KillEveryone]

Some spells it won't raise the DC.

Some spells it may only raise the DC by 2.

Other spells it will raise the DC by 8.

While some spells such as Otto's Sphere may work well in some cases, it is not a lvl 9 spell. You may have a mass hold monster with a lvl 9 spell, but that doesn't work on everything, I've see air elementals listed as immune when I tried holding them with mass hold monster. In both cases of Mass Hold Monster and Otto's Sphere, these spells have a will save and won't work reliably against critters with a high will save. Web however will typically work on those same critters because of a different save but if you don't have heighten, it won't work reliably.

I like it. I find it handy. While leveling up I don't really use it much, once I hit lvl 15, I find myself turning it on more for some spells and I have it always on at lvl 20.

[aristarchus1000]

While leveling, not as much, but by level 15 you can get the improved metamagics for heighten, making it a lot more affordable. By level 20 it's almost required.

Web gets a +7 to DC reflex save, and is a reflexes save that doesn't require spell penetration. Ottos it's a +2 will save. FoD +2 fortitude, FtS +3 fortitude. You need different spells to target the weak saves of the mob.

Every last DC is important for the end game. Prior to level 15, i generally found my normal Otto's was enough and you can solo most of the quests with Wall of Fire anyway, which isn't save dependent.

[sweez]

My build is pretty messed up, and I don't have this feat, but I can't say that I really miss it.
Its because I don't cast any low level spells, because all of them have improved, higher level versions.

Pray tell, what is "end-game" for you?

For example, web, which is, in most player's point of viev, best CC spell, and main (if not only reason) to take heighten and spell focus (conjuration) basically works the same as Otto's sphere of dancing- the differences are the detail- save type, duration, AoE radius etc.

Oh and this little unimportant thing called "DC type". You know, the thing that's "will" for dancing ball and "reflex/str" for web? Casting time? Do you even play arcanes?

Also, web is the *only* reason people take heighten? Really? I assume you wail single mobs instead of fingering them?

[Zilta]

to be fair if you have heighten on wail costs nearly the same amount of sp as FoD. Still, by endgame you will generally want to have heighten, I personally almost never turn it off when I play my arcane, especially in epics.

[sweez]

to be fair if you have heighten on wail costs nearly the same amount of sp as FoD.

Nearly, but not quite, especially with all the heighten enhancements wizards get. More importantly, it's on a different timer.

[sephiroth1084]

Heighten is a must-have for any wizard who intends to cast spells that have DCs.

Fixed that for ya.

There are several spells that have DCs and are not 9th level that you will be casting semi-often. Not taking Heighten is a mistake. Pure and simple.

[Vellrad]

Pray tell, what is "end-game" for you?

Lately I've been doing mainly house P epics, and Shroud once/3 days.

Oh and this little unimportant thing called "DC type". You know, the thing that's "will" for dancing ball and "reflex/str" for web? Casting time? Do you even play arcanes?

Also, web is the *only* reason people take heighten? Really? I assume you wail single mobs instead of fingering them?

Yeah, I wail single mob, (it cost the same as heighten fod) but more oftem, I hold them.
I find web useable only on caster types mobs, and I still think that Otto's Irresistible Dance is beter at them than web, because there is no save at all. There quite long cooldown on this spell, I admit, but I've never seen more than 2 casters with high will saves, and second one gets hit with epic big top. Yeah, I know that not everyone got EBT, but notice, that I never said that heighten is useless, I just said that I'm doing fine without it. There is no feat IMO, which is mandatory for anyone.

[Riorik]

More than worthwhile, it's pretty much required.
The same thing can be said for Quicken...although that can sometimes be worked around but it makes it harder.

[kernal42]

Heighten is great end-game.
It's nice on FoD.
It's better on FtS.
It's great on Web.
It's really awesome on SLA hypnotism. (for ench-archmage, like the OP).

Cheers,
Kernal

[Jaid314]

Yeah, I wail single mob, (it cost the same as heighten fod) but more oftem, I hold them.
I find web useable only on caster types mobs, and I still think that Otto's Irresistible Dance is beter at them than web, because there is no save at all. There quite long cooldown on this spell, I admit, but I've never seen more than 2 casters with high will saves, and second one gets hit with epic big top. Yeah, I know that not everyone got EBT, but notice, that I never said that heighten is useless, I just said that I'm doing fine without it. There is no feat IMO, which is mandatory for anyone.

well, i suppose if you never meet a single epic drow, you might continue on thinking that way.

but personally, from my perspective (admittedly this is mostly on my sorcerer): you can have my heighten feat when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands. there is no way i would ever even consider dropping heighten, it's simply too powerful. the stuff i want to do is all about having the maximum possible DC, and boosting my DC by even 1 or 2 points is powerful enough, boosting it by 7, well... let's consider. pretty much every wizard in existence should be taking some spell focus feat or another. 1 feat is worth boosting 1 category of spells DC by 1 point. heighten lets you boost every level 8 and lower spell with a save DC that you have, and it lets you boost them in some cases by many points (as much as 8). heighten is an extremely powerful and versatile feat, and having it available for spells like hypnotism, web, and even dancing sphere, is well worth the cost.

[Carpone]

I took heighten a level 10.
An that felt like to long to wait.

Heighten isn't needed for leveling. You can Firewall and Ice Storm your way to 20. Or if you're a Pale Master, you start Wailing once you're 17 and don't look back.

Heighten is mostly for elite/epic where DCs matter more, or if you're addicted to using Web (+7 DC). For example, +2 DC for Otto's Dancing Ball and Flesh to Stone is noticeable on elite and epic.

[Aashrym]

I currently have a Lvl 11 AM Drow Enchantment main spec'ed,Evocation secondary. I took heighten fairly early assuming that it would help with CC DC's, but so far i haven't really needed it. I have been looking at a lot of different enchanter AM's and don't really see heighten chosen that often. I'm wondering if i should switch it out for quicken, which i had not really considered as warranting a feat slot over heighten initially. I do plan on taking this toon into epics later on, so i'd like peoples opinion on which feat is more usefull

Heighten is much more useful than quicken for CC. It's not really worth taking at lower levels tho.