Grease is a bad joke :(

[Uska]

Grease has no current use in the game, except as a joke spell. In fact, it seems a little odd for turbine to put the work into creating a spell that has no use in the game, but I guess thats the case with a lot of DnD spells e.g. Death to Undeath, Symbol of Stunning etc etc.

If they were to change it to become enemy-only and heightenable, it would probably become more useful than web due to the way grease works. Both are reflex saves but you make a save for any movement in a grease, whereas web only has a save when you enter it, or re-enter it. Grease is also a larger AoE.

I disagree on the humour aspect though. An extended grease on the spike trap just above the ladder in von5, along with selectively dancing peeps as they cross the spikes can be hugely entertaining.

Incorrect grease can be very useful everyone in the party just needs fom and we dont need to make grease so it doesnt affect the party but we need to change area effect spells so that they do we need more pnp realism not less

[RATRACE931]

Actually I would vote to have grease changed to allow it to be heightened.

Oh of course I've wanted that for quite some time aswell... but I'll take that as a "/greasestays"

[Maegin]

They also make burning hands clickies for anti grease clickies.

Grease is one of the few spells that hold true to D&D left in this game, aside from a few conjuration spells, and by that I mean harm your party and enemy. Don't take that away. They already nerfed it 2 times. ie no heighten and burn away.

[RATRACE931]

They also make burning hands clickies for anti grease clickies.

Grease is one of the few spells that hold true to D&D left in this game, aside from a few conjuration spells, and by that I mean harm your party and enemy. Don't take that away.

+1 for bringing up a good point, Turbine already "took care" of the griefing aspect of an extended grease spell, nearly any fire AOE spell will ignite it and remove it while also damaging the person that cast it. If you don't like grease clickies carry a fireball wand.

[AndyD47]

Actually I would vote to have grease changed to allow it to be heightened.

QFT.

I love grease myself,and would use it as CC much more often if it could be heighten.

If everyone has FoM,or you can place them well,it's like a web that attacks a different save to my eyes.

[honkers]

grease= best spell ever

[rexservorum]

Leave it the way it is.

Unless you're planning to make it even more faithful to PnP, and allow it to be cast on items. This would, however, require the implementation of disarming.

But most importantly of all, this change would give real and quantifiable meaning to the phrase, "slipperier than a greased dwarf."

[Mr.Delightful]

To those who think my suggestions concerning Grease are good ideas and reasonable: Thank you for the support.

To those who do not: I'm confused as to why. I offered logical and well-though suggestions to improve one spell and make it party-friendly, whereas those supporting the status-quo used different means of persuasion.

The responses opposing any party-friendly alterations to Grease seemed to fall into 2 camps:

Camp 1:

Grease is awesome.
Lighten up and laugh a little
sheeesh.......

So in that case, the argument is that Grease is a joke spell. Aside from the fact that I am far from the only one who doesn't find it funny, the above argument seems to forgot that Grease is clearly intended to be a CC spell, but it is one still operating under the "friendly-fire" system that DDO does not use (I actually wish there was full "friendly fire" for everything, but sense that would drive the zergers away, its not gonna happen). You either have "friendly fire", or you do not, anything else sends mixed-messages and creases confusion.

Camp 2:

Its functioned this way for 4 years and I think I can speak for all vets when i say "Grease stays!"

But what does that mean? Perhaps it means that, due to the passage of some arbitrary amount of time, it has somehow become "wrong" to change Grease. I understand that some people become attached to certain things merely because they are familiar with them, or used to them, as illustrated by the 4 year comment above. I also understand that Grease functioning as it does currently is somewhat "faithful" to its visibly aging P&P roots.

What I do not understand is how the above statements are at all relevant to a modern MMORPG that makes it bread and butter off RMTs, easing new players into the game with early free content in order to build a sense of investment in the game and thus encourage the purchasing of quest packs and items.

Do not forgot; Grease is a lvl 1 spell. A lvl 1 spell is that, in its current state, has been used to grief untold numbers of new players just getting into the game. A lvl 1 spell that is outright unusable to most new players coming off WoW (due to its very "unfriendly" targeting). A lvl 1 spell that some "vets" seem to find amusing.

Whichever camp the naysayers fall into, I find zero sense in their "arguments" against party-friendly Grease.

Thoughts? I do hope that I made my position clear, and above all, reasonable, to both discussion and hopefully, implementation.

[Valindria]

I'd keep the current version if they get rid of hypnotic sphere. It gives me a headache when people cast it.

I took grease on my bard and in combo with FoM had some fun using it to slow enemies. I wouldn't complain if they took away the FF aspect. I did laugh when I got greased in Von5 at the pilliar. I panicked and fell off into the lava which killed me. Honestly what they will probably do is add FoM items to the DDO store as a fix.

[Folonius]

Grease. Currently, the only thing its good at is griefing party/raid members. It is one of the few remaining "friendly-fire" spells left, but sense DDO doesn't really do friendly-fire (Firewall dance anyone?), it seems like Grease is a bit out of place in terms of how it functions in DDO.

Grease works fine. IMO, it is possibly even overpowered. It's a level 1 spell that acts as a slow spell with no save (at the very least) and heightened (can it be heightened?) will make mobs fall over.

I agree that it is used (sometimes excessivly) to grief parties, and I have quit parties that have thought it was funny to lay grease down while trying to run through traps or in the middle of fights.

If Grease is going to be used in an offensive capacity, have the means to prevent the party from slipping and falling. Bards are the best class to use grease because they can also buff the party with freedom of movement, but even if you aren't a bard, you can still ask the cleric, FVS, or ranger to buff the party with FoM.

Sense movement is extremely important in DDO, it makes this spell an awful choice to use, in every situation.

Again, not true. If the party is buffed with FoM, it acts as a slow spell and prevents mobs from moving fast making it much easier to kite.

1) Grease should only effect enemies. That way, it does more good than harm, which is unfortunately not the case now

From my point of view from playing a character who can both grease and FoM, I think it is fine as it is.

2) Allow Grease to be effected by Heighten. If the "friendly-fire" version of Grease is replaced by the party-friendly version I suggest, there is no reason me to deny me my +9 DC Grease

I don't make it a habbit of throwing a heightened grease on my wizard, but isn't it already affected by heighten?

I think a level 1 spell that gives no save vs. slow for almost all mobs is overpowering. Having it effect party members is a decent balance for it.


Edit:

Not all grease is bad ....

[flynnjsw]

Whichever camp the naysayers fall into, I find zero sense in their "arguments" against party-friendly Grease.

Thoughts? I do hope that I made my position clear, and above all, reasonable, to both discussion and hopefully, implementation.

Does it matter if it makes sense? The plain and simple answer is that the majority of people that have responded did not agree with changing grease. You call it a tool for griefing, yet at least 2 posters have given you a way to deal with it.

In other words, the "naysayers" as you call them, have made their positions clear as well. Keep Grease the way it is, and allow it to be heightened.

[Folonius]

...

Camp 1:

...

Camp 2:

...

Do not forgot; Grease is a lvl 1 spell. A lvl 1 spell is that, in its current state, has been used to grief untold numbers of new players just getting into the game. A lvl 1 spell that is outright unusable to most new players coming off WoW (due to its very "unfriendly" targeting). A lvl 1 spell that some "vets" seem to find amusing.

It doesn't allow a save vs. slow. It's overpowered. Take away friendly fire, then it will need to allow saves vs. slow for all mobs.

I am against altering it because it will be nerfed if it no longer targets friendly's. It's a very easy circumstance to get around using freedom of movement if so desired.

[RATRACE931]

Grease isn't all that prominant, people that use it once in a party realize the affect that it has and that obviously people wont appreciate it. It's just amusing little spell to toss up every now and then to cut the monotony of the game. It was recently changed to wear it can be removed by nearly any fire spell including clickies, also it always been dispellable and Freedom of Moment prevents it. There is nothing else that needs to be done, it is not a rampant problem and if you want to talk about useless spells it probably one of the most widely used 'useless' spell in the game. Though i think Mass, Camo is catching up .

[Lorz]

.

OP your anything but a delight.

/not signed
/not needed
/not wanted


Grease was here way before you....and i for one will be pulling for it to be here long after your gone.

[countesscrow]

Its functioned this way for 4 years and I think I can speak for all vets when i say "Grease stays!"

U have my vote!

[Mr.Delightful]

It doesn't allow a save vs. slow. It's overpowered. Take away friendly fire, then it will need to allow saves vs. slow for all mobs.

I am against altering it because it will be nerfed if it no longer targets friendly's. It's a very easy circumstance to get around using freedom of movement if so desired.

First, having tested Grease and found it VERY lacking, it does not slow mobs. It can trip them with its god-awful DC, thus having the effect of slowing them for a moment (gl landing it on anything above normal) but does not affect their movement speed. It does effect players though, slowing them down and disabling jumping.

Second, spending 25 sp per party member for FOM (25 * 6 = 150) on a bard, so you can then spend 10 sp per cast using Grease, is unwise, as Bards have limited sp pools. Even as a divine, 150 is a high price to pay for a very weak payoff; that 150 could have been better spend keeping people alive.

As a bard, You could more effectively have used glitterdust or SOD and have sp left for holding and backup healing. If you really like Grease that much, rock on, but realize that it is far from overpowered.

[Lord_WC]

First, having tested Grease and found it VERY lacking, it does not slow mobs. It can trip them with its god-awful DC, thus having the effect of slowing them for a moment (gl landing it on anything above normal) but does not affect their movement speed. It does effect players though, slowing them down and disabling jumping.

Second, spending 25 sp per party member for FOM (25 * 6 = 150) on a bard, so you can then spend 10 sp per cast using Grease, is unwise, as Bards have limited sp pools. Even as a divine, 150 is a high price to pay for a very weak payoff; that 150 could have been better spend keeping people alive.

As a bard, You could more effectively have used glitterdust or SOD and have sp left for holding and backup healing. If you really like Grease that much, rock on, but realize that it is far from overpowered.

Don't get into this train.

First of all, what do you think my wf caster would leak if hit? Hmmmm?

Second: taking away all seldom useful spells would leave us with about 4-6 spells per level. That would make an awesome sight and seriously more people would think about rolling that wiz of theirs.

Otherwise it one of the most useful spell in stopping that stupid ranger pewpewpewing around and doing 1 damage to that train of mobs prohibiting us to melee them all manlylike and proper as it should be.

Let we all bask in the glory of grease!

[Folonius]

First, having tested Grease and found it VERY lacking, it does not slow mobs.

So you're telling a bard who uses FoM and grease consistently that grease doesn't slow down mobs?

150 is a high price to pay for a very weak payoff

So FoM is a very weak payoff .... riiight ...

[katana_one]

Grease is the word, is the word that you heard
It's got groove it's got meaning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phwOOmFYudU

[arjiwan]

That being said, I want to like grease, I really do, but as it currently stands, I just can't.

As it stands, you can't? In grease?

I agree :P


Cheers!