No Easy Buttons

[AltheaSteelrain]

2nd Drow SR nerf suggestion thread this week..

Why is it that when we are given a new challenge instead of us being challenged some players keep complaining that its too hard?

C'mon, I've only been playing for 7 months now and frankly, even my gimp 12 bard /6 ranger /2 fighter w/ 402 hp, no evasion, shroud items only no epic/raid item is doing fine on both casual - normal - hard - elite - epic.

The game is not that hard!

Here's a nice suggestion for you: learn to play the game.

If the Drow has high SR let the monks stun it.

Say what? He's a dark monk? Then let the barb hack it apart.

Say what again, the Barb just died? Then you go web the Drow.

What web? I am too awesome for web? Then can you mass hold monster?

No, I'm uber I don't need such spells! Ok let the bard fascinate it.

NO I WANT TO KILL IT! Ok, don't do epics.

You see Epics is a different game, different strategy. Yes I know, the strategies are somewhat stupid for other people (spam holds galore and swing your picks instead of your flavored weapon Bastard Sword of Whatever) but heck, when a PUG goes wrong epic becomes really EPIC!

Like knowing where to kite, who to pull, what will be your role priorities.

Where to run, when to DDoor, which part to skip.

Jump around the room, evade hostiles, heck you can even invi - pike an epic quest!

If you can't deal with something, think outside the box.

Even cookie Cutter builds has this requirement.

Or am I just being idealistic? No, I firmly believe you must have a presence of mind on epics regardless of build.

Not pushing keyboards A B C 1 2 3 pretending DPS and pike.

Just by thinking alone, you are doing something meaningful in your life.

Rather than like me, being foolish and vain convincing you to do so and stop posting meaningless nerf threads that the majority of players PUG and succeed on a daily basis.

On thelanis at least. (go go thelanis!)

And yes, people will still complain instead of thinking, and will continue to post whine threads asking for a nerf.

Ad nauseum.

Ad infinitum.

All I want this Christmas is a no easy button game called DDO.

Not an even dumber down (is there even a word like this I have no idea) game and still asking it to be more dumber.

All I want to share this Christmas is this silly silly wall of text rant in the suggestions forum asking people that before they post a NERF thread, they should know that it is really that gamebreaking!

Not some OMFG I can't beat A so nerf A and B!

Or OMG I'm not uber anymoar!!! NERF NERF NERF!!!

Please if you have anymore respect for yourself, can you learn and adapt to any challenge before you?

It will do you well in life, yo know its the most important part of living right?

Learning and applying experience.

Thank you for reading and Merry Christmas.

PS: Yes I am bored waiting for Christmas.

Time check: 8:48 Eastern Time (+8:00), 3 hours and 12 minutes to go!!!~

[wez]

+1
well said,the best thing about this game is how hard it is and that first time you will probably fail if no guidance or research.
the more you play and learn the better you get and easier the game becomes.I have been playing about a year and a half and still so much to learn.
the first time i tried epic i thought it was impossible, but after completing my first (after many fail's) i felt like i had achieved something.

[flynnjsw]

Amen and +1. Adapt and Overcome is a saying that works well in this situation. If you can't/won't do either, go elsewhere.

[ToKu]

Bububububububuuuut..... that means it'll take FOOOREVER for me to make my super uber like 18x TR caster cleric/monk/rogue! No I think we need MORE easy buttons!

[AltheaSteelrain]

Bububububububuuuut..... that means it'll take FOOOREVER for me to make my super uber like 18x TR caster cleric/monk/rogue! No I think we need MORE easy buttons!

Or get your guildie melee to use an improved shattermantle weapon for a change to help land stuff at it (really I don't think getting a decent DC for mass hold monster/heighten web is that hard though).

Speaking of which that reminds me; I'll go look for shattermantle picks in the brokers lol.

But it competes w/ my Rocksplitter/Seeker 10 pick combo though

[Lleren]

"Playing Smart", in some ways, is looking for "Easy Buttons"...

There is more to finding your Awesome, then number crunching, or finding the fastest/easiest way through a quest, even on Epic.

Mind you I still enjoy the number crunching, but not so much the invising past mobs and perching aspects.

Note: Some folks find invising past and perching to be thier Awesome, I do not want to take that aspect of the game from them. I want more options in a quest, not less. Even if I do not personally enjoy some of those play options.

Real options, not Khopesh vs Dagger options.

[articwarrior]

Agreed!

[Lleren]

Answers to the purple

Easy Buttons are generally not satisfying. No matter who finds/creates them.
Neither is Grind though.
The area where one becomes the other is different from player to player, and hard to judge.

There is a significant difference between self gimping, and choosing another option. I would prefer more options, not Khopesh vs Dagger options.

I'm likely to old, to do things for the "lulz" I remember my father trying out my generations slang, and it stunk, or if you prefer was "fail"

I very much want" Real Epics"

this is the current metagame, is either learn to play or start to quit.

Bull
Talk to the devs through the channels available, talk to the other players
Communication is almost always the better option for online gameplay.
Style of communication may influence the results however =D
Even the bad suggestion threads, are better then a Ragequit/uninstall for DDO
I'd like to go on playing for some time after all

[AltheaSteelrain]

Answers to the purple

Easy Buttons are generally not satisfying.

It kinda wears off over time, hence the pressure for Turbine or the Devs to create more content that would stimulate the players.

No matter who finds/creates them.

I'd rather have some person who actually played the game discover the easy button rather than handing it over on a silver platter just because its "too hard" contrary to what is the reality of things I.E, people doing epic completions regardless of Drow SR on Epic Sentinels/Sands.

At least the former played the game and put thought and effort making it easy for the rest of the community to follow suit and improve upon.

Neither is Grind though.

Agreed but my gaming philosophy states: It will come to you regardless as long as you keep playing, enjoying how you play it and are aware that its not playing you.

The items can wait, but the fun will not last forever.

The area where one becomes the other is different from player to player, and hard to judge.

Agreed min/maxing is subjective, however too much math is just too much. For me at least.

But then again I do appreciate the spreadsheets; it provides me with a reference of how much I am losing for the sake of building "character".

There is a significant difference between self gimping, and choosing another option. I would prefer more options, not Khopesh vs Dagger options.

With the limited AI options the game provides there is little to nil possibility of creating more options to complete a quest.

Take note for instance Stealth.

I can practically stealth all the lower epic content w/ my said gimp bard but with the 10k hp mob + epic ward nonsense, what's the point?

Stealth is out of the picture.

Diplomatic Options: No, its too few and far between. There should be more dialog oriented quests but then again I am asking too much from the mechanical broken record DM we are hearing daily.

I shut him off long ago.

But it is possible.

So I vote for an epic revamp.

However with the many many many many many epic revamp threads lying in wait for a necro bump I seriously doubt the devs have the capacity or even the interest of speeding the process of revamping epics.

Until then we just have to make do with the challenge of making the 10k hp epic ward mob drop from 10k to 0 faster before you can push the pike button.

So should I whine and complain now? Certainly not.

It maybe boring yes, but if you find it boring or even too hard then don't do it.

It's not that hard.

And there are other quests to "grind ad nauseum" epic token fragments that wouldn't even make you fight hordes of 10k hp epic ward mobs. Pike a Claw of Vulkoor is one example.

In fact you can just dps the first giant to death, take a bard w/ you to fascinate + pike the rest and you are all set if you are bored fighting silly inflated mobs.

Its just the question of time versus satisfaction, doing epics.

and the simplest solution is to just screw the grind and play it for fun as it is.

The hardest solution is like I mentioned is a revamp.

But the stupid solution is to whine and ask for a nerf while people do completions of it on a daily basis.

I'm likely to old, to do things for the "lulz" I remember my father trying out my generations slang, and it stunk, or if you prefer was "fail"

Nah I'm just using the word to see what it really meant; I observe how people react to it and I figure lulz is not equal to the word fun. o I mgiht be wrong in its usage. Do forgive, i'll stop using it now.

I very much want" Real Epics"

Agreed but until then we're stuck doing the Epic as it is and our only option is to not play it or just enjoy it as it is.

I am leaning for the latter, and absolutely whining about how hard it is when it is really not hard at all is a NO NO on my ideal world of MMO gaming.

Bull

You can't reason with subjectivity to the whiners. You have to be absolute.

But yeah, its bull because you are paying customers.

I'm f2p but technically I am paying w/ time to populate the servers so that you got lots of people to play with

Talk to the devs through the channels available

After reading many great suggestion threads waiting to be necroed I am seriously doubting the developers of MMO's in general are even reading it.

, talk to the other players

And they have been talking even before I started playing this game for four years now, and will always be. The only problem is how this translates into developing the game. Its not that... "clean and polished".


Communication is almost always the better option for online gameplay.

But some people don't really listen/read. This is reality among players.

But there is only change for better marketing of the product regardless of player sentiments. This is MMO reality.

But then again, there is Lammania and Mournlands server so I think my second assessement could be wrong. Don't take this against me.

Style of communication may influence the results however =D

This is the most important. A good "ask a nerf thread" is something that is factual, consistent and more importantly gamebreaking to the extent that a content is practically unplayable.

A Bard nerf thread simply reads, "I am not uber anymoar!!! Nerf nerf nerf!!!!~".

I am able to accept nerfs from the former as long as the evidence points out its for the best.

Even the bad suggestion threads, are better then a Ragequit/uninstall for DDO

Sometimes the OP of the said suggestion threads is asking for a ragequit/uninstall DDO comment.

Not all "elitists" in the forums in general are trolls.

I'd like to go on playing for some time after all

Me too.

like this game.

Its better than the next generation MMO's being released because this is the only game where I can be sentimental (playing pnp), creative and basically "free" to do what I please as long as I have the time to "grind for it".

No MMO package that I know off provides me this liberty more than DDO.

Answers in Purple.

OH ITS CHRISTMAS!! MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

[Lleren]

Here are some examples of the changes I have prefered, or do support. Some of my examples will pertain to Epic, others Endgame, or replay through time on an alt/TR.

I'd rather have Necropolis end quest flagging be permanent, then window farm. New quest chains use the mechanic I prefer.

I'd rather those mobs lift/throw each other up to reach the perched caster, rather then stand there unresponsive cooking in Firewalls. Sure they may be thinking really hard about how to reach that caster, but they still are not doing anything while the melees beat them down. Yes, I want that Ogre to throw those kobolds at the perched guy, or make an Ogre pyramid...

I would rather have DT Runes be identified, then treat them as a lottery. They are now. Being able to crunch them up and down is great.

20th completion rewards, completely awesome. Still a change from before me and DDO met.

Jumping something to bypass 3/4 of a quest is not something I want in my game.. and spots get removed.

If it is highly recomended, there should be a way to plan to get it in game. Heavy Fort, Devil DR bypassers, Runspeed, Feather fall, Good Weapons, Good Armor. All in, some for much longer then the others.

Higher difficulty should reward a higher chance of Named items from the Quest/Raid. Per Dev quotes this is true for much, or maybe all, of the recent content.

--------------
Most of that can be considered "Easy Button" changes, most of which have happened, excepting the Ogre throwing Kobolds one. Ogres throwing kobolds would be Awesome.

If it "feels" exploity, then I won't like it. The more I run the same content for a specific drop, the less likely I am to create another character that wants that drop as well, or even go on a PuG run once I've got my bit. Limiting replayability enjoyment is generally a bad thing.

Make the new Epics tough, but make them rewarding, and bind the good stuff to at least account, if not character upon equip. I prefer my rewards like Minos Legens, or Greensteel crafting, or ToD Rings, or DT Armor, or Madstone Boots, or Boots of Anchoring, or even Epic gear, then like the Bloodstone.

-------------------
Back on topic, I support Epic Drow having Epic levels of Spell resistance, it makes sense from the lore of the base game.

I do not support going on a quest to get the famous sword of XYZ, and have XYZ not drop the sword, or at least broken parts of the sword, that you then have to do other quests to repair.

[cdemeritt]

op /signed


Far too many nerfs... the overall dumbing of the game...

While I would like them to find a way to make my casters less of buffbots in epic, I want the stream of nerfs to stop.

I still miss the old STK, Con 0=death, traps that killed, and 100 other changes to make the game easier.

[AltheaSteelrain]

I'd rather have Necropolis end quest flagging be permanent, then window farm. New quest chains use the mechanic I prefer.

haven't experienced this myself but my guildies say its a pain and I believe so too after reading them share their rants on the guild chat.

I'd rather those mobs lift/throw each other up to reach the perched caster, rather then stand there unresponsive cooking in Firewalls. Sure they may be thinking really hard about how to reach that caster, but they still are not doing anything while the melees beat them down. Yes, I want that Ogre to throw those kobolds at the perched guy, or make an Ogre pyramid...

Or make them retreat to the next room where nothing can snipe them and put up a good fight.

I would rather have DT Runes be identified, then treat them as a lottery. They are now. Being able to crunch them up and down is great.

I love this change. Still grindy but not too easy as well. This is a balanced effort/reward change for me.

20th completion rewards, completely awesome. Still a change from before me and DDO met.

Yep. I like this 20th run bonus.

Jumping something to bypass 3/4 of a quest is not something I want in my game.. and spots get removed.

You can just not use them; I normally try to keep myself "interested" doing Enter the Kobold gauntlet puzzle but the "cheat" ledges are sometimes a nice thing to have when the PUG is going nowhere an ruining the puzzle over and over and over...

Still I don't really use bypasses unless its a party concensus or I am feeling lazy.

If it is highly recomended, there should be a way to plan to get it in game.

Heavy Fort, Relic of the Sovereign Past Casual starting level 9 onwards. With a hireling you can solo the adamantine ore part then recall out.

Devil DR bypassers, Somewhat hard but doable; poor man's choice are Metalline Flametouched Iron weapons they are often brokered and best forgotten.

Runspeed, Randarts often drop this often; better yet use haste pots if you are needy for speed :P

Feather fall, ML 7 ones are available in Tear of Dhakaan if you are exp farming it. Bonus points if you fail to get one but have enough loot to buy one from the AH or the brokers.

Good Weapons, Subjective; for me the good weapons are lower ML RR weapons that are "exotic" and fit for flavor I.E Holy Burst Silver Bastards, Smiting Great Crossbows... silver seeker 10 scimitar of pure good...

Good Armor. Dragontouched armors are not that hard to get anymore

All in, some for much longer then the others. Well you can't have a MMO w/o one do we?

Higher difficulty should reward a higher chance of Named items from the Quest/Raid.

AFAIK in practice and my experience there is no difference. I could be wrong.

Per Dev quotes this is true for much, or maybe all, of the recent content.

Hopefully its the latter; I'm getting a lot of nice vendor weapons doing epic red fens that net me around 7k per last stand runs.

--------------
Most of that can be considered "Easy Button" changes, most of which have happened, excepting the Ogre throwing Kobolds one. Ogres throwing kobolds would be Awesome.

Yes they are and are available in game for the price of your time. Though I agree with the kobold throwing ogre and I want to see one badly.

If it "feels" exploity, then I won't like it. The more I run the same content for a specific drop, the less likely I am to create another character that wants that drop as well, or even go on a PuG run once I've got my bit.

I don't usually mind the drop rate. If it drops it drops, if not, its not gonna break my character; its just a bonus and a means to tweak myself further.

I do mind it though when I really want it (I.E the elusive tumbleweed that not only will save me slots but help me conserve my 12 song per rest limit) and the RNG hates me.


Limiting replayability enjoyment is generally a bad thing.

Yes agreed but I'm still having fun regardless and I am making the most out of this game from casual to epic.

Make the new Epics tough, but make them rewarding,

Agreed


and bind the good stuff to at least account,

Binding them to account would limit re-playability in a sense that there is no need to "grind" items for your other characters, lessening potential profit sales as well as making the game more "boring" because eventually when you get everything in-game there is no need to run the same quests again and just keep grinding the same quests over and over to cap a toon in order to equip the said items.

This puts pressure on the developer to create more content, which will resort into power creeping because they will have to create new items that indirectly make older item sets obsolete, but then since its bound to account, the "grind" may be lessened, but the value of the new content will diminish greatly hence the demand for more content and failure to bring new content brings disgruntled players wanting more and ultimately make them quit because "its too boring I have everything".

Its like the Ragnarok Online private servers, its fun when you get everything so fast and only once but gets boring (for me at least) getting everything quickly and in the end just sit around Prontera epeening others in the pvp room.

Making rare items "rare" is something that keeps the value of a game high and makes the players wanting to "play more" because of anticipation in finally obtaining it and wanting more. Its a win win solution. Grind is inevitable in an MMO setting; its the bread and butter of how to pay the costs of keeping the servers live and running and getting capital for new content.

if not character upon equip.

No. See Above.

I prefer my rewards like

Minos Legens, Fairly easy grind I don't like game changing reward options obtained as easy as getting Taps.

or Greensteel crafting, Maybe this one is good but I'm not a fan of greensteel grinding because I'm starting to get bored farming for my other Lit II off hand *sigh*.

I'm completing Shrouds now regardless of what i get from the chests. Much healthier for my sanity.

or ToD Rings, no idea can't comment.

or DT Armor, Casual flagging + casual SoS = easy dragontouched armor w/ crappy or incomplete bonuses. Casual Prey of the Hunter runs x3 - ad nauseum = unlimited tempest and sov runes. Again its the question of time.

Boring. Yes. Want to do something else? Do SoS instead. Much saner and more challenging to the mind than running from A to B hacking giants that knock you off everytime they swing its insane.

But I'm not asking for a nerf. Its fine as it is, I'll just get a group and do SoS for sanity's sake! Problem solved, no nerfs need be done

Then I can do slayer runs + monastery/prey for my 50 draconic run turn ins to get flagged for SoS again. YAY.

Problem double solved

or Madstone Boots, No idea can't comment.

or Boots of Anchoring, No idea can't comment but my guildies didn't complain and highly recommends grinding for it because its worth it.

or even Epic gear, Except for Sands w/c has a diluted Loot Table. I'd rather have the devs split the loot table between different quests so it'll be more accessible to the casual player.

then like the Bloodstone. Can I die now? I'd rather grind plat than a bloodstone.

-------------------
Back on topic, I support Epic Drow having Epic levels of Spell resistance, it makes sense from the lore of the base game.

In the same line I support High Drow SR because it makes sense to fight death eaters on epic content than hogwarts students w/ muggle friends tossed in the mix.

I do not support going on a quest to get the famous sword of XYZ, and have XYZ not drop the sword, or at least broken parts of the sword, that you then have to do other quests to repair.

Then epics is not for you.

You must ignore this reality and play as it is, resent this "grind" and stop playing, or pretend epic does not exist and play freely without burdening yourself with this game.

I do the first option, and play it as it is. No need to whine or complain, just play because my character does fine without em in the first place, its just a nice bonus to make me do things "easier".

Not play and whine and ask for nerfs to get the said items faster and easier so I can be uber and enjoy the epeens.

Because lately that is what I am reading in the suggestions forum. Or probably its the flavor of the week.

Play the game, enjoy the current metagame and have a life, go outside if you wipe because some drow got buffed up and you failed while using your a b c 1 2 3 i win im uber buttons.

Answers in purple.

PS: I'm not trolling you, actually I share your sentiments.

[azrael4h]

excepting the Ogre throwing Kobolds one. Ogres throwing kobolds would be Awesome.

This. /end thread

Every quest should have an ogre throwing a kobold. Even if they are non-hostile NPCs, they should routinely throw a kobold. Just think of how much more amusing Bonebite would be, if the ogre at the end would just toss an unending stream of kobolds at you.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

On thelanis at least. (go go thelanis!)

Thelanis IS pretty awesome.

[Lleren]

PS: I'm not trolling you, actually I share your sentiments.

When you break down sentences/sections into a few words and answer those few words while ignoring the rest of the sentence/section, it is hard to tell. I'm not responding to that last set.

[AltheaSteelrain]

Definitely a fan of no-more-easy buttons.


That said I can honestly say I LOVE epic raids and am bored to tears with epic quests. It isn't that they are hard; it's that their replay-value is very low and they are completely non interesting. I find mass-hold/pick or fascinate/shield-block or wall-of-fire-aggro-caster-hide and then chopping through the pile of HP to be formulaic, annoying and stupidly repetitive. For the length of time the quest takes, generally an annoying amount of time. They feel far more pointlessly grindy to me than the Shroud.

Epic Drow SR ... whatever. That change just means that tactic 1 won't work. Everyone will switch to tactic 2 eventually. Figuring out Tactic 1 and Tactic 2 are interesting and fun. Repeating Tactic 1 and Tactic 2 once a day for the next month is not interesting for me.

If there is a problem w/ Epic it isn't that drow SR is now "higher". It's the overall nature of epics.

No easy-button needed. I wouldn't say no to a serious overall (and am frankly really really interested in MadFloyd's reset). I'd like to enjoy them.

I've read that thread, I like his ideas as well.

However, this is the reality of the state of the game: epics are just that mechanical. While I am aware that the rest of you veterans are bored and jaded doing the said quests, I, being a fresh player cannot fully comprehend the gravity of this boredom. However I am naive and idealist to say that "epic is still fun regardless"; I just like to believe it that way.

Because its just a game, and games should be fun. If the current nature of epics is this "10k hp epic ward/mandate of shavarath/sorjek's command" plethora of mob density. So be it. I will adjust and play accordingly to its rules.

If Epics get a revamp, I will continue to play, whether it is for the better or the worst.

Until one day I realize that I am really *THAT* bored and probably quit the game.

But not yet, and reading people asking for unnecessary nerfs that we daily complete is just sad... And I don't like more easy buttons in an already easy game.

And yet people continue to whine and ask for unreasonable nerfs that really isn't that gamebreaking and does not reflect in the current state of things I.E, having pug groups complete it on a daily basis.

Hence this thread to voice out a message to please stop whining and adjust accordingly we all know epics are ******** but is never that hard as you make it so.

And yes this response is bordering on trolling the said players.

I say an epic revamp, not an epic nerf because I cannot win and abuse the AI anymoarz!!!.

When you break down sentences/sections into a few words and answer those few words while ignoring the rest of the sentence/section, it is hard to tell. I'm not responding to that last set.

I am responding in a hostile manner yes, but I figure we are not on private channels and that I should answer you with replies that advocates what I believe in: no easy buttons please.

Conviction is another part of communicating a message.

My sincerest apologies if I somehow offended you.

[Lleren]

I am responding in a hostile manner yes, but I figure we are not on private channels and that I should answer you with replies that advocates what I believe in: no easy buttons please.

Conviction is another part of communicating a message.

My sincerest apologies if I somehow offended you.

Grind is not hard, it is simply unfun. Supporting its existance is supporting Easy Buttons.
Exploity play is not Hard. Supporting its existance is supporting Easy Buttons.
Stating that If you don't like it, don't use it, or don't play it... Is supporting Easy Buttons.
Characterising a suggestion post as whining/crying, is a Forum Easy Button.

The difference between Conviction and Fanaticism do not come across well in text. One is ok, the other is a rabid dog.

I'm not offended, but I don't think we are communicating.

I specifically think that you are supporting the: Its not Hard, just keep running X and you'll eventually get Y Easy Button. It is a quite common Easy Button in MMO's. Time ends up rewarding advancement, as long as you keep playing.

[Astraghal]

grind Is Not Hard, It Is Simply Unfun. Supporting Its Existance Is Supporting Easy Buttons.
Exploity Play Is Not Hard. Supporting Its Existance Is Supporting Easy Buttons.
Stating That If You Don't Like It, Don't Use It, Or Don't Play It... Is Supporting Easy Buttons.
Characterising A Suggestion Post As Whining/crying, Is A Forum Easy Button.

The Difference Between Conviction And Fanaticism Do Not Come Across Well In Text. One Is Ok, The Other Is A Rabid Dog.

I'm Not Offended, But I Don't Think We Are Communicating.

I Specifically Think That You Are Supporting The: Its Not Hard, Just Keep Running X And You'll Eventually Get Y Easy Button. It Is A Quite Common Easy Button In Mmo's. Time Ends Up Rewarding Advancement, As Long As You Keep Playing.

+1

[AltheaSteelrain]

Grind is not hard, it is simply unfun. Supporting its existance is supporting Easy Buttons.

Again if you don't like to play an MMO, then grind is not for you.

Grind = revenue for the company.

Its the reality of things.

Have you played an Asian MMO? I live in Southeast Asia and I tell you the grind in our MMO settings is much much more brutal than here in DDO.

An example:

A famous MMO in our country has this kind of grind: you farm monsters that don't give exp anymore ad infinitum to get certain upgrades for your already rare item w/c drops 1/1000 ratio, then when you upgrade the said item, it has a 1/100 chance of success and the rest of the time goes kaboom and destroys both rare items.

I am not a math genius.

Then here comes the item mall that provides the "easy button" of upgrading it safely for a price of half the monthly wage.

Then you have people IRL kill each other to steal the said upgraded virtual item and get on the evening news.

Or have people rent other people that basically get long term sickness by staving themselves playing 24/7 to farm the said item to fuel the MMO black market.

Then repeat the evening news.

This is what asian MMO's are generally.

The grind in DDO is much forgiving, humane and more convenient. It is already too easy.

So why do you think I am supporting an easy button when already the game is in easy button mode to begin with?

Exploity play is not Hard. Supporting its existance is supporting Easy Buttons.

Exploiting AI by using CC that cant and wont be dispelled by enemy casters nearby is Bad AI programming.

Exploiting Map areas o skip "hard" content is bad map layout.

These are not easy buttons.

What is easy button

People abusing the said problems for completions deliberately or unknowingly. Yes they are "valid" tactics, the fact is its a product of a failed design. But why the need to use them?

Because epics as of now is ********.

But what ticks me off

Since basically epics is a mass hold fest + picking hp away while piking already, people still want it easier.

When there are "shortcuts and loopholes" both legal and illegal already, people still post that its too hard.

Then its too boring right? Yes it maybe boring to you, but there are other people thinking otherwise.

Plus the fact of the matter is current epics is already an easy button; therefore I support an epic revamp to remedy the insanity of mass holds galore + picking rather than complain that "oh noez its too hard" nonsense that is not in the context of DDO reality.


Stating that If you don't like it, don't use it, or don't play it... Is supporting Easy Buttons.

Nobody is forcing you to do epics, in fact if you still insist to get your tokens to TR but dos not support the grindfest that is hold + pcking, you can practice doing Claw of Vulkoor and Stealth it Ad Infinitum.

Works for me. I find it challenging to kill the giant and stealth the rest away (yes its doable).

Epic Item grinding is another issue, and its being discussed in another thread. Personally both sides have valid points but like I said in my earlier posts, "Its not gonna break my build if I don't have it". So let them debate there on what is the best Epic Loot system should be and I'll be just around playing the game and adjusting my strategies on how to acquire it.

Characterising a suggestion post as whining/crying, is a Forum Easy Button.

There are many good suggestion threads. Personally I like to read PvP suggestions because of the trollfest and also nostalgia of playing PvP oriented games in the past.

There are also many good suggestion threads that I support of, namely Epic Revamp, Ranged Combat Revamp, Race Revamp (please fix elves), more PrE's, more lore oriented races and classes, customizable armors... heck even the kobold throwign ogre in the kobold assault revamp suggestion thread is a good yes yes for me.

A bad whining/crying Nerf Suggestion post is something in the lines of:

"OMG epic Drow has SR 141241343515135!!! I want nerf because my non spell pen spec necromancer can't be uber anymore and my pug is stupeeed!!"

A good nerf suggestion post is something like this"

"Epic Drow has 46 SR (not exact), a generic geared Caster with no raid items can only reach 30 spell pen (not exact). Even with a teammate using Improved Shattermantle, the Epic Drow SR can't still be beaten by an average Caster, therefore can the Dev's check if this is intended?"

Then the nice informative and civil discussions and debates revolving around the said topic, usually ending up with information of how to bypass the said SR. Usually these stuff appears.

- casters have low fort (common knowledge)
- Some CC have no SR check (web, Mass Hold)
- Monks can Stun them three times over
- Bards can Fascinate them
- Mass Charm works and let the inflated mobs get the caster

Which at that point valid points are given by constructive players and at the end of the day we learn how to manage the said "problem".

But usually "suggestion" threads often are the former, resulting in a trollingfest between players, elitists and trolls, and the nicer posts are often neglected because of the inflation of drama.

So it ends up being just a whine thread and some people not knowing and deliberately not learning from the informative posts such as the above list of what to do.

I really do miss reading the U5 "TWF nerf" feedback thread, it has everything I liked and much more.

The difference between Conviction and Fanaticism do not come across well in text. One is ok, the other is a rabid dog.

Its better to be called a rabid dog by others than not having a backbone at all even on the internet.

What is sad is be with a country full of spineless people, but that is for another time, in another forum. Suffice to say I dare to be different and resist this stereotype.

I'm not offended, but I don't think we are communicating.

We are, we just have different opinions.

I specifically think that you are supporting the: Its not Hard, just keep running X and you'll eventually get Y Easy Button.

No, I support the "just play and have fun is not the end of the world if you don't get the epic item you need". If its not gonna break my style or build, its just gravy.

It is a quite common Easy Button in MMO's.

Grind is an easy button disguised as challenge in order for the company to keep the servers up and earn revenue from the game.

Time ends up rewarding advancement, as long as you keep playing.

So does playing Single Player Campaigns. As long as you keep playing you will finish the game and you are rewarded with a nice happy ending.

This does not translate well in MMO's, because you cannot end the game that earns you money.

Ultimately even sports have reward/advancement, you train daily repeating the said tasks in order to perfect your physique to play the game consistently.

You age and have to adjust with the changes.

Not whine at the coach because younger people have easier time in practice.

Ain't that a grind too as well?

Answers in purple.