THF toon doubts for EPIC play

[Luxx0r]

My main is a THF specced build and I'm thinking it's time to start trying EPIC.

So, what would be better?

A Great Axe with all my THF feats and enhancements (KensaiIII) or two Heavy picks without a single feat or enhancement at all?

[wiglin]

My main is a THF specced build and I'm thinking it's time to start trying EPIC.

So, what would be better?

A Great Axe with all my THF feats and enhancements (KensaiIII) or two Heavy picks without a single feat or enhancement at all?

With no twf feats your great axe will be better.

[Doxmaster]

You need both. Your kensai weapon for bosses/trash and 2 heavy picks for trash under the effect of 'Hold mass'.

With no twf feats your great axe will be better.

Wrong. When a monster is in autocrit, 2 heavy picks win out, especially with a burst or maiming effect on them. When it isnt autocrit, your normal weapon is best.

[Cold_Stele]

Wrong. When a monster is in autocrit, 2 heavy picks win out, especially with a burst or maiming effect on them. When it isnt autocrit, your normal weapon is best.

How many extra attacks do you get without any TWF feats? IIRC It used to be only 1 but that may have changed.

Even if getting hold of a pair of good picks gives him marginally more DPS I just don't see it being worth the investment, especially if his main weapon is GS.

@OP my guess would be use a good greataxe and mitigate the shortfall by ensuring you twitch constantly. The only way to know for sure though is use a DPS calculator (there's a link to one in Consumer's locked max DPS Fighter thread) and decide for yourself if you think it's worth the effort.

[toughguyjoe]

How many extra attacks do you get without any TWF feats? IIRC It used to be only 1 but that may have changed.

Even if getting hold of a pair of good picks gives him marginally more DPS I just don't see it being worth the investment, especially if his main weapon is GS.

@OP my guess would be use a good greataxe and mitigate the shortfall by ensuring you twitch constantly. The only way to know for sure though is use a DPS calculator (there's a link to one in Consumer's locked max DPS Fighter thread) and decide for yourself if you think it's worth the effort.

Well, the way it works now I believe that without any TWF feats you only have a 20% chance for off-hand hits to "proc" as opposed to just getting extra attacks like it used to be.

That would lead me to wonder if the greataxe would be better no matter what in that case, since 1 pick + 20% offhand pick attacks probably isn't as good as all the kensai bonuses and feats that he has for the greataxe...

[articwarrior]

With no twf feats your great axe will be better.

this

You need both. Your kensai weapon for bosses/trash and 2 heavy picks for trash under the effect of 'Hold mass'.

Wrong. When a monster is in autocrit, 2 heavy picks win out, especially with a burst or maiming effect on them. When it isnt autocrit, your normal weapon is best.

2 heavy picks with earth grab is also useful

[Luxx0r]

@OP my guess would be use a good greataxe and mitigate the shortfall by ensuring you twitch constantly.

Auch! Pain! Twitching is in my list of things I need to learn, but my Super Mario skills are not that great, so I'm a bit concerned about it.

2 heavy picks with earth grab is also useful

Reauch! More pain! Really have I to grind for this? Not even my basic GS equiptment full, just working on it.



In fact, reading this I have thoughts of letting EPIC parked off... but a eSoS would be so nice and full of win



Thanks everyone for the answers. General +1 for everyone. (EDIT: I tried but I can not give so much in 24h, my apologies for the ones that I can not approve)

[Freeman]

Don't worry too much about it. While people are using the word "need", that isn't really correct. You may "want" to have things like they discussed to maximize your DPS, but they aren't necessary, particularly since they are mainly for the trash mobs. As for Epic, if you are still working on grinding out your first GS weapon, then you probably do want to hold off on them for awhile. I would concentrate on getting the non-epic gear and items you will need before focusing heavily on epic quests.

[Cold_Stele]

It might not be the quickest way to twitch, but the easiest way is... Keep your thumb pressing down the space bar. Way simple right?

Earthgrab off hand gives you 0.2% (off hand proc) x 0.05% (earthgrab proc) = 0.01% of an Earthgrab proc per swing. Absolutely no way is that worth 12 large ingredients.

Craft a good Greataxe and mash your space bar.

[Jaid314]

Don't worry too much about it. While people are using the word "need", that isn't really correct. You may "want" to have things like they discussed to maximize your DPS, but they aren't necessary, particularly since they are mainly for the trash mobs. As for Epic, if you are still working on grinding out your first GS weapon, then you probably do want to hold off on them for awhile. I would concentrate on getting the non-epic gear and items you will need before focusing heavily on epic quests.

well, he could always just focus on the simple ones. you don't need much awesome to run, say, epic last stand, or for a backpack ride in epic claw of vulkoor. or in pretty near any epic quest in house P...

[Thrudh]

Don't bother twitching...

I feel like I'm close enough to getting carpel tunnel playing games. Last thing I need to do is "twitch" every swing.

The monsters die anyway (even when soloing, so it's not your teammates making up the slack). Save your poor wrists.

[Luxx0r]

It might not be the quickest way to twitch, but the easiest way is... Keep your thumb pressing down the space bar. Way simple right?

Woot! I tried this during the weekend and it's great. Thanks for the tip.

Just... what do you mean with that it's not the quickest way to twitch?

Also, after learning it, I was doing it almost in every fight. Is there any reason to not do it all the time?

[Astraghal]

You get faster hits from doing the sideways slash followed by the overhead chop, then interrupting the attack sequence and repeating.

You're getting a movement penalty for both so you might as well get the extra damage out of it.

You will also get sick of always holding spacebar down.

[Cold_Stele]

Re. When to twitch - generally only against single targets, especially boss fights. Against multiple mobs you don't get glancing blows when you twitch, so you want to remain stationary.

[Luxx0r]

Re. When to twitch - generally only against single targets, especially boss fights. Against multiple mobs you don't get glancing blows when you twitch, so you want to remain stationary.

Mmmmm... with my huge experience on the field after 2 days of trying (/sarcasm), I'm almost sure that I got glancing blows when doing it (in fact, I was completely sure prior to your post).

So, if I'm not moving my feet and just pressing the space bar, why shouldn't I?

Most probably, biased perception, I will try to be extra careful watching the floating numbers.

EDIT: On second thought, I will try to convince a halfling rogue friend to be my training dummy in the PvP area to test it XDDDDDD

[Luxx0r]

Confirmed! You get glancing blows while not moving your feet and have the space bar pressed.

I was testing yesterday at the PvP arena, and I observed no difference in the hits and damage while pressing the space bar or not. It was different when I tried it while moving, then it was when you didn't get any glancing blows.

So, the only reason I can think for not twitching it's that you just need the BAB raise of the last attacks.

[p3n1x0r]

dunno if its been mentioned yet..

both my thf fighter, and barb have an unsuppressed dreamspitter with force crit on it as well


who needs picks?