Melee Clonk- Stat distribution questions

[Talltale-Storyteller]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=290046

WSS sucks. Look man I know you are making some broad strokes about longswords but the simple fact is they are not very useful! Wraps do better DPS, as illustrated by the many posts that other people have made. I rolled a WSS build. It sucked! Take a look at the link posted in the thread I just linked and you can see a very full discussion on melee/caster clonks. The build I just posted can melee, can OCC, and can heal. I can solo like nobody's business and I regularly can skip shrines because my healing ki (at level 12) can hit for up to 128 points of healing on a crit! Add on top of that my RS abilities and SP is a non issue.

As far as melee... you don't even have power attack man. Come on. Even Warchanters have PA, and your saying your a battle cleric? Lets be real here man...

Your GS longswords are still longswords, and longswords suck. Wraps are faster, have a higher to hit bonus due to lack of TWF penalties, and can use TOD rings, additionally I don't have to spend two extra feats and give up all my casting ability just to make it work! What makes a clonk a clonk is that they can do it all! My guy can stand toe to toe with bosses and melee throwing out fists of light and rs abilites AND I can kite things with a blade barrier.

WSS sucks. I'm not saying it meanly, but I have played it and I have played an unarmed 17/3, and the 17/3 non finesse human is my favorite build, EVER. I play alot of PD too btw, so I have played a TON of different toons.

While we are on the topic though a 17/3 plays totally different from any other clonk build because of finishers. I have very little trouble getting off finishers either.

Also...you keep mentioning a difference in BAB, Divine Power man!

[tyrosinekinase]

Stunning fist with +6 seeker, icy burst and stunning +10 means I have criticals on every hit against 90% of crittable foes which hit for 50-80 damage or more. Plus, everyone in party gets continuous criticals too.

Yes, there is an inherent boost to handwrap attack speed barring windstance. Not sure how much faster but considerably faster and it is the reason that a kensai III handwrap build can dish out some of the highest DPS in the game.

Again, like everyone has tried to tell you, Divine Power sets your base attack bonus to your level so every cleric has base attack bonus of 20 except against beholders. Yes, if you want to be DPS you need power attack.

You can't raid heal without quicken. Also, you can't heal + DPS without quicken.

Regarding your role as melee/offensive caster/healer/resser and your evaluation of its value in getting to level 20. Well, fact is, cleric is the most forgiving class in the game, it is *easy*. However, once you get to level 20 and if you want to do the high level content where you get the best items to make the next life easier (where you have to get considerably more XP) you will find that your offensive spells don't work - not high wisdom, no spell penetration, no heighten, not sure if you have maximise/extend/quicken but these are needed too with empower optional.

Your Ki pool is low, a Battle Cleric should have 1800 SP minimum at level 20 after gear so you'll either not be able to raid heal or you'll spend so many resources that you'll be constantly broke - and that is on regular raids.

As you won't be a competent healer you'll have to fill a DPS slot. A. Longswords are a low DPS weapon even on a Kensai III max strength build. B. you are so far from a Kensai III max strength build that your DPS will be laughable.

I can't see the speed difference at all. I'm not sure it exists. Please tell me the source you got that indicates that there is actually a speed difference with handwraps. I don't think monk 3 is going to be putting out anymore DPS with wraps than a Elf Monk 3 with longswords after enhancements. I'm not raid healing. Did you see anything in that build that indicated healer? Gotta say, I think you're wrong, and I think you haven't tried it. Granted I'm gonna miss my monk's 2d10 wraps hits, but, that's not gonna happen on any 17/3 Clonk.

[tyrosinekinase]

Stunning fist with +6 seeker, icy burst and stunning +10 means I have criticals on every hit against 90% of crittable foes which hit for 50-80 damage or more. Plus, everyone in party gets continuous criticals too.

Yes, there is an inherent boost to handwrap attack speed barring windstance. Not sure how much faster but considerably faster and it is the reason that a kensai III handwrap build can dish out some of the highest DPS in the game.

Again, like everyone has tried to tell you, Divine Power sets your base attack bonus to your level so every cleric has base attack bonus of 20 except against beholders. Yes, if you want to be DPS you need power attack.

You can't raid heal without quicken. Also, you can't heal + DPS without quicken.

Regarding your role as melee/offensive caster/healer/resser and your evaluation of its value in getting to level 20. Well, fact is, cleric is the most forgiving class in the game, it is *easy*. However, once you get to level 20 and if you want to do the high level content where you get the best items to make the next life easier (where you have to get considerably more XP) you will find that your offensive spells don't work - not high wisdom, no spell penetration, no heighten, not sure if you have maximise/extend/quicken but these are needed too with empower optional.

Your Ki pool is low, a Battle Cleric should have 1800 SP minimum at level 20 after gear so you'll either not be able to raid heal or you'll spend so many resources that you'll be constantly broke - and that is on regular raids.

As you won't be a competent healer you'll have to fill a DPS slot. A. Longswords are a low DPS weapon even on a Kensai III max strength build. B. you are so far from a Kensai III max strength build that your DPS will be laughable.

My DPS will be better than a 17/3 Melee Clonk - there's no way you're gonna boost handwraps high enough to compare to longswords with the BAB you're gonna have. So, you get 20 BAB from Divine Power, like me, but I have +3 to attack from Elf Enhancement and +2 to damage - not to mention the 1d10 as opposed to 1d6 barring past life monk.

The difference is, I'll be able to hit something with my power attack, whereas the clonk with +15 BAB without divine power won't.

[tyrosinekinase]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=290046

WSS sucks. Look man I know you are making some broad strokes about longswords but the simple fact is they are not very useful! Wraps do better DPS, as illustrated by the many posts that other people have made. I rolled a WSS build. It sucked! Take a look at the link posted in the thread I just linked and you can see a very full discussion on melee/caster clonks. The build I just posted can melee, can OCC, and can heal. I can solo like nobody's business and I regularly can skip shrines because my healing ki (at level 12) can hit for up to 128 points of healing on a crit! Add on top of that my RS abilities and SP is a non issue.

As far as melee... you don't even have power attack man. Come on. Even Warchanters have PA, and your saying your a battle cleric? Lets be real here man...

Your GS longswords are still longswords, and longswords suck. Wraps are faster, have a higher to hit bonus due to lack of TWF penalties, and can use TOD rings, additionally I don't have to spend two extra feats and give up all my casting ability just to make it work! What makes a clonk a clonk is that they can do it all! My guy can stand toe to toe with bosses and melee throwing out fists of light and rs abilites AND I can kite things with a blade barrier.

WSS sucks. I'm not saying it meanly, but I have played it and I have played an unarmed 17/3, and the 17/3 non finesse human is my favorite build, EVER. I play alot of PD too btw, so I have played a TON of different toons.

While we are on the topic though a 17/3 plays totally different from any other clonk build because of finishers. I have very little trouble getting off finishers either.

Also...you keep mentioning a difference in BAB, Divine Power man!

You're showing you're ignorant of the game mechanics. There is no "to hit" penalty for offhand attacks. I should have put power attack in the last slot, but I threw together that build in 5 min - my mistake.

I'm talking about an "equivalent" difference in BAB, from Elf Enhancements you get +3 to hits from longswords and +2 to damage - which adds up to an "equivalent" BAB of 22.5 with Divine Power, add +3 str exceptional bonus on a GS Longsword with 1d10 and you've got essentially 24 BAB with Divine Power, or 19 without.

NOT TO MENTION THE CRITS - granted - stunning fist is great - if you hit with it every time and it stuns every time. But, boss dps is where things get hard - and you're gonna not be great with 1d6 wraps no matter which way you cut it.

I am playing WSS right now, as I write this. I'm fine with a hireling - better than my pure-breed monk - and obviously better completely solo than my pure-breed monk.

What are the ToD rings you are talking about? Is there one that raises the Die cast on Monk Wraps? Or gives them 17-20 crit range?

[locus]

You're going to be hurting for +hit which makes the number crunchers frown since you'll have a 15 BAB at 20 rather than a 20 when centered.

Why? You're a cleric!

Wis > Str, imo. Simply put, effective stunning fist, AC, destruction, banishment, blade barriers, cometfalls, slay living, implosion etc. really makes having a high wisdom worthwhile and I wouldn't give that up for a few points of damage. I've read many forum opinions from experience hybrid divine players and the consensus that I understood was that in the long run wisdom based is more enjoyable, more versatile and superior to strength based (way better for soloing needless to say).

Agreed on this. And pretty much the rest of your posts, especially:

2. Feats wise, if some number crunchers figure out that in some specific situations (gear set up/foe choice) longswords are better than handwraps, it still won't justify spending 2 or 3 feats when other feats can bring so much more to the clonk build. WSS, WF:S, OTWF are rubbish compared to maximise, extend and quicken (for instance).

Agreed x2. OTWF is a bad choice on a feat starved build, and probably anything short of heavy fighter builds. If you're going handwraps or might at any point, it's useless. I'd go cleric first (else you get stuck with at least one useless monk feat!), some of the caster feats (eventually, probably extend extend/empower healing first, max & empower & quicken by 20), full twf line (like in the fifty other clonk threads on these boards) and PA and toughness. Definitely human, as the feat's needed (or 2monk/1f). I would not go longswords+WSS, especially when the advice comes from a guy who doesn't know that divine power exists.

I went 1 cleric, 3 monk right away since I wanted to experiment with finishers and see how doable they were on a cleric (who duos/solos a lot), since it would be a bad idea to get to 18 or 20 and find out you sucked at being a monk and/or switching back and forth very fast, right? If you haven't played a monk to 20 this might be the way to go, at least for a trial run.

You're showing you're ignorant of the game mechanics. There is no "to hit" penalty for offhand attacks. I should have put power attack in the last slot, but I threw together that build in 5 min - my mistake

There most definitely is a to hit penalty for offhand attacks, except for handwraps, which you are not talking about. Are you and Hexokinase the same person? That would be pretty lame, you know.

OP: This thread is terrible. Go read through the solo focused cleric hybrid thread, as it has white noise: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=164323

[tyrosinekinase]

You're showing you're ignorant of the game mechanics. There is no "to hit" penalty for offhand attacks. I should have put power attack in the last slot, but I threw together that build in 5 min - my mistake.

I'm talking about an "equivalent" difference in BAB, from Elf Enhancements you get +3 to hits from longswords and +2 to damage - which adds up to an "equivalent" BAB of 22.5 with Divine Power, add +3 str exceptional bonus on a GS Longsword with 1d10 and you've got essentially 24 BAB with Divine Power, or 19 without.

NOT TO MENTION THE CRITS - granted - stunning fist is great - if you hit with it every time and it stuns every time. But, boss dps is where things get hard - and you're gonna not be great with 1d6 wraps no matter which way you cut it.

I am playing WSS right now, as I write this. I'm fine with a hireling - better than my pure-breed monk - and obviously better completely solo than my pure-breed monk.

What are the ToD rings you are talking about? Is there one that raises the Die cast on Monk Wraps? Or gives them 17-20 crit range?

Here's the deal, I sat down with the target dummy today on my 3/10 Clonk. I took out hand wraps, and I took out longswords. I hit it for 10 second intervals with ITWF and recorded the number for each 10 second interval by counting the number of attempted attacks in my combat log for each interval.

I did this 15 times for each weapon, longswords, and handwraps (I was in ocean stance so as to not bias anything).

What you say may be true about handwrap speed, but I doubt it's 10% speed increase rather than an animation trick of the mind. For 15 trial runs with each weapon, I then divided the sum of the number of attacks per 10 second run by 15 to get a mean average.

Handwraps: 24.53 attacks/10 seconds. Longswords: 23.8 attacks/10 seconds.

If I multiply these figures by 6 to get attacks/min, it ends up:

Handwraps: 147.2 attacks/min. Longswords: 142.8 attacks/min.

I should test this out on a totally unfeated toon to detract the 60% offhand chance which really makes this very difficult to determine.

I will run more trial runs and get back to you - I'm still not convinced there is an inherent bonus to attack speed on unarmed monk 3 - if you can cite an official source that was not gleaned by this method - I will certainly stand corrected.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Here's the deal, I sat down with the target dummy today on my 3/10 Clonk. I took out hand wraps, and I took out longswords. I hit it for 10 second intervals with ITWF and recorded the number for each 10 second interval by counting the number of attempted attacks in my combat log for each interval.

I did this 15 times for each weapon, longswords, and handwraps (I was in ocean stance so as to not bias anything).

What you say may be true about handwrap speed, but I doubt it's 10% speed increase rather than an animation trick of the mind. For 15 trial runs with each weapon, I then divided the sum of the number of attacks per 10 second run by 15 to get a mean average.

Handwraps: 24.53 attacks/10 seconds. Longswords: 23.8 attacks/10 seconds.

If I multiply these figures by 6 to get attacks/min, it ends up:

Handwraps: 147.2 attacks/min. Longswords: 142.8 attacks/min.

I should test this out on a totally unfeated toon to detract the 60% offhand chance which really makes this very difficult to determine.

I will run more trial runs and get back to you - I'm still not convinced there is an inherent bonus to attack speed on unarmed monk 3 - if you can cite an official source that was not gleaned by this method - I will certainly stand corrected.

This is the thread that you want.

I like your attempts at testing, and it's possible that the guy who posted that is wrong, but, I highly doubt it.

Futhermore, I can attest to my own experience of having played my clonk and enjoyed unarmed attack speed and now moving back to my capped tempest build and experiencing the agonising slowness of TWF.

You're showing you're ignorant of the game mechanics. There is no "to hit" penalty for offhand attacks. I should have put power attack in the last slot, but I threw together that build in 5 min - my mistake.

This is a little embarrassing for you. Yes, wielding 2 weapons gives a -2 penalty to both attacks, -4 to both attacks if offhand weapon is not light and if you don't have OTWF, -2 to mainhand and -6 to offhand if you don't have the TWF feat. Before you accuse people of being ignorant of game mechanics it's always best to check your facts.

I'm talking about an "equivalent" difference in BAB, from Elf Enhancements you get +3 to hits from longswords and +2 to damage - which adds up to an "equivalent" BAB of 22.5 with Divine Power, add +3 str exceptional bonus on a GS Longsword with 1d10 and you've got essentially 24 BAB with Divine Power, or 19 without.

If you are talking about AB (attack bonus) then say AB, don't say BAB and then add other numbers. It's a newbie mistake to mix these 2 up so it's easily forgivable. The reason it's important not to mix them up is that BAB doesn't just give you a number to attack with but it also determines your base attack speed. As above, handwraps don't receive that -2 penalty to attack which wipes out your 2 of the 3 points of attack that the elf longsword character has without spending a single AP.

NOT TO MENTION THE CRITS - granted - stunning fist is great - if you hit with it every time and it stuns every time. But, boss dps is where things get hard - and you're gonna not be great with 1d6 wraps no matter which way you cut it.

Against mobs, yes, I stun ~90% of the time. I'll give you a hint, base weapon damage counts for a very small percentage of DPS at end game compared to all the bonuses that toons will have at level 20. What is important on a weapon is its critical profile. True, a longsword crits twice as often as handwraps and khopeshes crit twice as often and twice as hard, scimitars crit 3x as often. These improved critical profiles on weapons is the reason that handwraps have DPS advantages such as increased attack speed and full strength bonus to offhand so that handwraps can compete with the top DPS dealers such as the almighty khopesh. Longswords don't even hold a candle to Khopeshes, they are relatively completely worthless as a DPS weapon.

What are the ToD rings you are talking about? Is there one that raises the Die cast on Monk Wraps? Or gives them 17-20 crit range?

The ToD rings add effects to your unarmed attack. For instance, the usual setup is to have 1 that adds holy burst and one that adds shocking burst. That's +3d6 on every attack and +3d6+1d10 on criticals against evil foes. More rings can be crafted for different circumstances. Then equip your metalline of GEOB wraps and you have an extra +3d6 + enhancement bonus, icy burst optional. There are quite a few items that will increase your base damage die (Jidz Tet'ka in earth stance, enlightened vestments for instance). What all this adds up to is that unarmed will likely be in front on all DPS fronts compared to longswords. That's 2-3 feats to reduce your DPS

Fact is, x2 critical doesn't really cut it. It's not viable in epic, you need x3 or x4. This is a weakness of handwraps (and longswords) but a full monk will have earth strike combos and level 6 higher crit profile attack to somewhat make up for it. A clonk can't really expect to do meaningful damage in epics. The only real option is to equip picks and use those for auto-crit situations (which is a majority of epic content).

[tyrosinekinase]

This is the thread that you want.

I like your attempts at testing, and it's possible that the guy who posted that is wrong, but, I highly doubt it.

Futhermore, I can attest to my own experience of having played my clonk and enjoyed unarmed attack speed and now moving back to my capped tempest build and experiencing the agonising slowness of TWF.



This is a little embarrassing for you. Yes, wielding 2 weapons gives a -2 penalty to both attacks, -4 to both attacks if offhand weapon is not light and if you don't have OTWF, -2 to mainhand and -6 to offhand if you don't have the TWF feat. Before you accuse people of being ignorant of game mechanics it's always best to check your facts.



If you are talking about AB (attack bonus) then say AB, don't say BAB and then add other numbers. It's a newbie mistake to mix these 2 up so it's easily forgivable. The reason it's important not to mix them up is that BAB doesn't just give you a number to attack with but it also determines your base attack speed. As above, handwraps don't receive that -2 penalty to attack which wipes out your 2 of the 3 points of attack that the elf longsword character has without spending a single AP.



Against mobs, yes, I stun ~90% of the time. I'll give you a hint, base weapon damage counts for a very small percentage of DPS at end game compared to all the bonuses that toons will have at level 20. What is important on a weapon is its critical profile. True, a longsword crits twice as often as handwraps and khopeshes crit twice as often and twice as hard, scimitars crit 3x as often. These improved critical profiles on weapons is the reason that handwraps have DPS advantages such as increased attack speed and full strength bonus to offhand so that handwraps can compete with the top DPS dealers such as the almighty khopesh. Longswords don't even hold a candle to Khopeshes, they are relatively completely worthless as a DPS weapon.



The ToD rings add effects to your unarmed attack. For instance, the usual setup is to have 1 that adds holy burst and one that adds shocking burst. That's +3d6 on every attack and +3d6+1d10 on criticals against evil foes. More rings can be crafted for different circumstances. Then equip your metalline of GEOB wraps and you have an extra +3d6 + enhancement bonus, icy burst optional. There are quite a few items that will increase your base damage die (Jidz Tet'ka in earth stance, enlightened vestments for instance). What all this adds up to is that unarmed will likely be in front on all DPS fronts compared to longswords. That's 2-3 feats to reduce your DPS

Fact is, x2 critical doesn't really cut it. It's not viable in epic, you need x3 or x4. This is a weakness of handwraps (and longswords) but a full monk will have earth strike combos and level 6 higher crit profile attack to somewhat make up for it. A clonk can't really expect to do meaningful damage in epics. The only real option is to equip picks and use those for auto-crit situations (which is a majority of epic content).

Ok, you're right, I didn't think we were talking about the basic penalty for two weapons. Neither did I realize that handwraps didn't include this penalty.

I didn't mix them up - if you had been paying attention - I clearly mentioned that it was equivalent - but - I hadn't realized the same two weapon attack penalties didn't apply to handwraps

Why is it you highly doubt it? Why is it that you think handwraps attack at a higher speed. The only indicator I found was by one guy who said his estimation was within 2% error giving two weapons 89 and handwraps 96. That's almost the same with a 2% error, and is the same with a 4% error - assuming he calculated correctly. (Update, I followed your link on my other computer and see his methodology. One thing I am certain of is that animation speed does not match attacks. It's close, but I know on my monk that there are plenty of times other attacks show up without a change in animation speed.)

But, yes, now that I see these damned rings, I'm annoyed. I wish it was a little more obvious that the -2 attack penalty doesn't apply to handwraps because that pretty much makes trying to get a +3 with elf useless other than a few relatively easy exceptional bonuses. Your point is well taken. And I stand corrected. Too bad that Whirling Steel really is useless and that you have to spend a dozen something enhancement points to make a hybrid equal to handwraps. You're still going to have a little more base damage than handwraps barring the ToD ring, I stand by it, but only by about 1 or 2.

Of course, it's a distance to ToD rings.

But, hey, maybe this incredibly difficult to build useless feat is a good excuse to never give them money again.

Of course with two Mineral swords you can have Metalline Keen Holy - but it really doesn't make up for the ToD ring which I hadn't been aware of as I've only reached 19 on my full breed monk.

Unfortunately I'll never quite discover exactly what needs Metalline/Silver to bypasss DR in DoS because I've Shinto (or whatever) III and thus silver wraps on the monk.

All and all, it may balance out, it might not. But now that I see that wraps don't recieve the -2 penalty from TWF - I really suspect you're absolutely correct and I stand corrected. That really was the only reason I specced into longswords so as to have a decent chance at hitting a mob.

/epic fail rage quit ddo

[wax_on_wax_off]

Ok, you're right, *Snip*

/epic fail rage quit ddo

+1, DDO doesn't make sense and the rules are confusing and not all in one place. Honestly, I wasn't aware that handwraps didn't have the -2 penalty, it was another poster that brought that detail to our attention. As far as everything else goes, I have the advantage of 15 years of getting to know the ins and outs of D&D game mechanics.

This very fact is why before I invest any time into a build that is outside the norm in any way I usually run it through the forums to at least get some feedback on if I'm crazy or not. I hate the idea of investing a lot of time into something to find out it's a waste of time

Thank you for your graciousness. But, it's all good, we just keep on playing ...

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Ok, you're right, I didn't think we were talking about the basic penalty for two weapons. Neither did I realize that handwraps didn't include this penalty.

I didn't mix them up - if you had been paying attention - I clearly mentioned that it was equivalent - but - I hadn't realized the same two weapon attack penalties didn't apply to handwraps

This was mentioned by several posters. But I appreciate your apology below, and will ignore that you called me ignorant.

But, yes, now that I see these damned rings, I'm annoyed. I wish it was a little more obvious that the -2 attack penalty doesn't apply to handwraps because that pretty much makes trying to get a +3 with elf useless other than a few relatively easy exceptional bonuses. Your point is well taken. And I stand corrected. Too bad that Whirling Steel really is useless and that you have to spend a dozen something enhancement points to make a hybrid equal to handwraps. You're still going to have a little more base damage than handwraps barring the ToD ring, I stand by it, but only by about 1 or 2.

Of course, it's a distance to ToD rings.

But, hey, maybe this incredibly difficult to build useless feat is a good excuse to never give them money again.

/epic rage quit ddo

I I wish WSS didn't suck, I really wanted to make a build using it, but its really just not worth the investment imo.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Ok, you're right, I didn't think we were talking about the basic penalty for two weapons. Neither did I realize that handwraps didn't include this penalty.

*snip*

Your point is well taken. And I stand corrected.

*snip*

/epic fail rage quit ddo

+1 for admitting your mistake, but don't rage quite DDO, just adapt your build - you can make your guy into a pretty standard clonk fairly easily through LR - or even a standard Battle Cleric.

[Hexokinase]

+1 for admitting your mistake, but don't rage quite DDO, just adapt your build - you can make your guy into a pretty standard clonk fairly easily through LR - or even a standard Battle Cleric.

Yeah, not gonna pay turbine for making an epic fail feat. Whirling Steel costs more feats than Spring Attack and if it's only better than handwraps on a 3/17 elf fighter - then that's it - I'm done - been playing for a year and that's one too many false starts and a couple hundred too much. DDOWiki doesn't even mention that the same TWF penalty doesn't apply to handwraps or that there's an attack speed boost and Turbine doesn't see fit to explain mechanics on descriptions like on "Unarmed Strike" saying "Standard Two Weapon Penalties do not Apply" or "Slightly increases attack speed."

[wax_on_wax_off]

Yeah, not gonna pay turbine for making an epic fail feat. Whirling Steel costs more feats than Spring Attack and if it's only better than handwraps on a 3/17 elf fighter - then that's it - I'm done - been playing for a year and that's one too many false starts and a couple hundred too much. DDOWiki doesn't even mention that the same TWF penalty doesn't apply to handwraps or that there's an attack speed boost and Turbine doesn't see fit to explain mechanics on descriptions like on "Unarmed Strike" saying "Standard Two Weapon Penalties do not Apply" or "Slightly increases attack speed."

There is 3 factors that make up the value of your character, the pilot, the build and the gear. Your build is not exactly optimal or ideal but it can still function fine, just don't suggest that it is a top tier DPS :P

If you're a good player and get some decent gear no one will mind having you around, they'll admire you for trying a new build even if it isn't minmaxed DPS.

Everyone messes up builds, that is why there is LR, GR and TR. Maybe look into doing a TR down the track? (Note, if you want to TR after getting epic tokens then make sure you can function as a healer in epics as longsword damage is useless there, picks are fine though if you can use those).

Finally, take a leaf out of my book, if you have a build idea that isn't mainstream then run it by the forums, people are always willing to help out with some uhh, constructive analysis

[Chimeran]

If you are hurting on HP you aren't alive to be efficient at melee. That is the essential point.

The balance between HP and DPS is kill them first. If you can't survive their attacks you cannot kill them.

It isn't an either HP or DPS situation. It is a MUST HAVE BOTH situation.

However, it is a better build than OP's.

This would be truthful if the player was a complete muppet, but some of us know how to use crowd control spells, stun feats and even sap feats.
I have played many healers who can melee well.
The ability to survive is something a divine healer excels at.
Hp can be healed, enemies can be controlled.
If an enemy fails against a spell of Destruction, you have spent very little effort for maximum gain.
Give some thought to how your new toon will play, research the spells, research enemies weak points.
With a small amount of preparation and the right type of gear sets for quests, can make a massive advantage for you.

[NaturalHazard]

Dex vs Str in this build:

Dex pros: 1/2ling racial +2, +2 enh, weapon finesse(allows you to use dex as your to-hit), higher to-hit, better stat allocation, higher reflex save
Dex cons: less main number dps, must spend a feat(weapon finesse)

Str pros: It's always nice to see big 1st numbers, easier to buff str than dex
Str cons: lower to-hit=less dps, lower reflex save, more difficult to attain a 'high' str as a 1/2ling

I think it would be easier to go str as a human, just no cunning/guile line to add to SA dps and as handwraps are finessable, just seemed to make sence to me. You could drop str to 11 and still qualify for PA if you wanted it, and if not, you could go 10 str and gain 6? stat points to spend elsewhere, ie: higher con, or wis for higher casting dc.

I certainly may have missed some pro/con points, those are just what I came up with off the top of my head while at work

10 str what happens when you get hit with exhaustion or something and get encumbered? there goes your evasion.

Also it is a lot easyier to buff up str for to hit, titans grip, rage, madstone,