Cleric questions

[Kruppe]

I have a few newb cleric questions to hopefully get answered. Currently I am running a level 14 pure cleric that is focused on offensive casting. Due to time restraints I mainly solo, but run with a pug when the chance arises and am working on leveling up to the point where I can run regular raids with my guild (although I am in no hurry, I am enjoying the game, not zerging through it)

I do a lot of loot runs through sands/orchard and my strategy is mainly kite as many mobs as I can, drop a BB and kite said mobs back and forth through it until they are dead. However, I find that when I do need to resort to melee when my mana runs out(I am good at getting the most out of my bar, but I tend to get myself in over my head sometimes and blow through it), I really don't hit very often (especially in orchard).

Would it be beneficial for me to multiclass my cleric to take some fighter or monk levels? Is multiclassing in this way viable endgame or would I be better off sticking to a pure classed cleric? What do I miss out on in the later levels by multiclassing from Cleric?

[blitzschlag]

I have a few newb cleric questions to hopefully get answered. Currently I am running a level 14 pure cleric that is focused on offensive casting. Due to time restraints I mainly solo, but run with a pug when the chance arises and am working on leveling up to the point where I can run regular raids with my guild (although I am in no hurry, I am enjoying the game, not zerging through it)

I do a lot of loot runs through sands/orchard and my strategy is mainly kite as many mobs as I can, drop a BB and kite said mobs back and forth through it until they are dead. However, I find that when I do need to resort to melee when my mana runs out(I am good at getting the most out of my bar, but I tend to get myself in over my head sometimes and blow through it), I really don't hit very often (especially in orchard).

Would it be beneficial for me to multiclass my cleric to take some fighter or monk levels? Is multiclassing in this way viable endgame or would I be better off sticking to a pure classed cleric? What do I miss out on in the later levels by multiclassing from Cleric?

i'd say don't multiclass. you had no multiclass in mind when you rolled your cleric, did you?

the thing is, just leave the immobile mobs where they are. there is really just a few spots ingame where you need to melee that pesky caster/boss because it won't move (rainbow in the dark comes to mind).

[Kruppe]

Wow...that is sad...I never even thought to just leave the casters/range mobs there. I am so bent on killing everything in site I guess I was just slowing myself down.

[PNellesen]

Would it be beneficial for me to multiclass my cleric to take some fighter or monk levels? Is multiclassing in this way viable endgame or would I be better off sticking to a pure classed cleric? What do I miss out on in the later levels by multiclassing from Cleric?

I threw one level of Fighter on my Cleric (my very first character) at level 13, for 2 reasons:

1. Wanted to be able to use any martial weapon I found.
2. Fighter Haste boost.

Now that he can use things like Falchions/Greatswords, his melee is MUCH better than it was before, and it has saved him more than a couple times in really sticky situations. From what I could see, at endgame I would lose approximately 100 SP, and Cleric Capstone. Whether or not that's hugely important, I don't know yet - I'm at 17/1 now, and haven't had any problems with healing or casting. That said, though, my next character is going to be a pure Half-Elf Casting/Healing-focused Cleric with Dilettante: Fighter. He'll still be able to use big, THF weapons, but will still get Capstone.

[Hoglum]

Kruppe,
I’ll share my experience but I’m new myself. I cannot say anything about end game but have been in the same boat as you are. I just turned 15th level with my Cleric. At level 13 I was doing pretty much what you’re doing now. I noticed the problems with using primarily spells. I was geared highly toward spellcasting but had a decent strength. When fighting I used the best mace I could get my hands on. It just wasn’t enough. I decided to take the fighter splash explained on the Cleric boards found here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=279703. Thank you Unbongwah. I took improved critical and power attack, and then found the best Falchion I could find/afford.

The results? I’m really happy with it so far. I can turn on the Radiant Servant aura and bop my way through most bad guys in the dungeons I’m in. If things get tough, I can use a Divine Favor and/or Divine Power for an extra boost. With extend spell on; this can last for several fights too. I now get to end fights with about half my spell points (about 500 or so – a lot of which were used for buffs). This is enough to enable me to cast a few Blade Barriers, Heals, and Comet Falls with metamagics going.

Like I said, I cannot speak for end game. As far as soloing/duoing is concerned though, the 2 Fighter levels I’ve taken have made an enormous difference in combat.

[selutha]

Maybe a more experienced player will correct me, but ever thought about slotting divine power then scrolling the 1st level wizard spell "master's touch"?

That will give you +6 to your str, attack bonus = to a fighter, and grant you proficiency in all simple and martial weapons while maintaining your pure caster build.

just a thought. I think scrolls of master touch can be bought. Adding fighter level would cost you sp, capstone, spell slots but give you fighter haste.

If it works for you let me know I would be interested in the out come.

[blitzschlag]

Maybe a more experienced player will correct me, but ever thought about slotting divine power then scrolling the 1st level wizard spell "master's touch"?

That will give you +6 to your str, attack bonus = to a fighter, and grant you proficiency in all simple and martial weapons while maintaining your pure caster build.

just a thought. I think scrolls of master touch can be bought. Adding fighter level would cost you sp, capstone, spell slots but give you fighter haste.

If it works for you let me know I would be interested in the out come.

divine power and divine favor are good to have and can be used to great benefit even on a pure cleric. still sometimes its faster and more efficient to let archers be archers and move on.

to scroll masters touch you need quite some points in umd.

[Noobian]

...with tacking 1 level of fighter on a cleric is the "stigma" of being a battle cleric. That's what everyone will see when u join raids and such. Not that everyone is completely irrational, but some if not many, will give you grief over it.

I built a Battle Cleric right off the bat and he was a blast, from start to finish. Ended up Cleric 19, Fighter 1. I lesser res'd him once to bring him more in line as a caster/healer toward the end, before TRing him. But found he could still solo much of the upper level slayer areas and a had a lot of fun not being limited by my blue bar. Mine was more of a Melee Capable cleric, than a what many think of as a "Battle Cleric". Meaning his destructs and implosions could actually land on level appropriate content. Just depends on how much "battle" you want in your "cleric".

So what you miss out on is really only significant to you, in terms of the Cleric capstone and such. Do some more reading, or keep in mind, that buying a Lesser Heart +1 is all you really need to do to convert back. Have to say, I like the cleric class a lot, the only problems I've had has been the role expectations, which is not really the point of this thread so I won't go there... ;-)

IMO, 1 level of fighter brings a lot to a Cleric (free feat, PA recomended, all martial weapons, some minor but tasty fighter enhancements...).

[Alyiakal]

Divine Power and Divine Favour are two very nice spells that will greatly boost your to-hit and damage (generally). DP raises your BAB to a High-BAB progression (so +5 BAB at cap for a pure cleric), and gives you a +6 STR boost, which is worth another +3 to-hit and damage (note: enchantment bonus, so doesn't stack with an Ogre Power item). DF maxes out at +3 to-hit and damage, but stacks with everything.

Assuming no STR item, these two spells will give you a +11 attack boost and +6 damage per hit, nothing to sneeze at. The catch obviously is that you need SP to cast them (and you said this would be an out-of-SP alternative). You can obviously scroll them if you want, but the durations are pretty bad, and DF I think is cast at minimum level (so only +1). Without proficiency though, you can probably only use a Quarterstaff with any efficiency whatsoever (you are better off running away from the mobs rather than trying to S&B them).

You cannot Master's Touch two-handed weapons because you need to scroll it, and scrolling it requires a free hand (so can only scroll off-hand weapons).

Taking a fighter level on a developed character really depends on if it would fit in with your general plan. Also, you need to have NOT dumped STR on creation.

[selutha]

Divine Power and Divine Favour are two very nice spells that will greatly boost your to-hit and damage (generally). DP raises your BAB to a High-BAB progression (so +5 BAB at cap for a pure cleric), and gives you a +6 STR boost, which is worth another +3 to-hit and damage (note: enchantment bonus, so doesn't stack with an Ogre Power item). DF maxes out at +3 to-hit and damage, but stacks with everything.

Assuming no STR item, these two spells will give you a +11 attack boost and +6 damage per hit, nothing to sneeze at. The catch obviously is that you need SP to cast them (and you said this would be an out-of-SP alternative). You can obviously scroll them if you want, but the durations are pretty bad, and DF I think is cast at minimum level (so only +1). Without proficiency though, you can probably only use a Quarterstaff with any efficiency whatsoever (you are better off running away from the mobs rather than trying to S&B them).

You cannot Master's Touch two-handed weapons because you need to scroll it, and scrolling it requires a free hand (so can only scroll off-hand weapons).

Taking a fighter level on a developed character really depends on if it would fit in with your general plan. Also, you need to have NOT dumped STR on creation.

What about using a clickie do they even make a master's touch clickie?

[selutha]

divine power and divine favor are good to have and can be used to great benefit even on a pure cleric. still sometimes its faster and more efficient to let archers be archers and move on.

to scroll masters touch you need quite some points in umd.

Scrolling a lv 1 wizard spell should not be that difficult as long as he/she did not dump stat cha.

As for the reference "let archers be archers" it is not quite clear to me. Do you mean let fighters be the fighters and don't try to use fighter weapons? I don't see how that will help him/her melee down mobs, but as stated earlier I would just leave them. Your time will probably be better spent by gathering the next group than trying to kill a few left overs.

[phalaeo]

What do you guys consider dump statting CHA and what do you consider a sizable investment in UMD?

My main has base 9 CHA, 11 Ranks in UMD and hits a 28 with GH, HoGF, +6 CHA item, +5 CHA skills item and Cartouche. First level Wiz scrolls are way below that- I'm looking at a scroll of Shield in game right now and it's UMD 20.

Granted, that's on a capped toon.

To be fair, I took off everything fancy and totally naked with no buffs, I'm at a 12 UMD. Still 60% success rate with a Master's Touch scroll.... it's permanent until rest, so even if you have to try a few times, it's worth casting until you succeed. Also, it's cheap at ~1 pp per scroll.

To the subject at hand- I do not think you should multi your Cleric if you did not plan it from start. If you want to try something different and can invest the TP/cash into it, go for an LR, but research and plan some to see what you're gaining and what you're losing.

[selutha]

What do you guys consider dump statting CHA and what do you consider a sizable investment in UMD?

My main has base 9 CHA, 11 Ranks in UMD and hits a 28 with GH, HoGF, +6 CHA item, +5 CHA skills item and Cartouche. First level Wiz scrolls are way below that- I'm looking at a scroll of Shield in game right now and it's UMD 20.

Granted, that's on a capped toon.

To be fair, I took off everything fancy and totally naked with no buffs, I'm at a 12 UMD. Still 60% success rate with a Master's Touch scroll.... it's permanent until rest, so even if you have to try a few times, it's worth casting until you succeed. Also, it's cheap at ~1 pp per scroll.

To the subject at hand- I do not think you should multi your Cleric if you did not plan it from start. If you want to try something different and can invest the TP/cash into it, go for an LR, but research and plan some to see what you're gaining and what you're losing.

Dump stat to me means no points in it. I don't think it will be difficult to umd a lv 1 scroll if you have some cha and no umd. If you have umd I think you can dump stat cha and still cast it at a reasonable rate. If they have both umd and a good cha it should be easy.

Thanks for posting numbers it confirms it is possible too bad you can't master touch a thw.


Ps any know if you can get a master touch on a clickie?

[Tiro]

If you went the Radiant Servant route, did you take Unyielding? If so go longswords if you want to melee. I picked up a vorpal and a holy burst of undead bane sword for cheap and do just fine with divine favor power. I can melee with my pet if I want to but I always revert back to bb killing whenever possible. I've never really been into making a bttle cleric (although I had me a kick ass one on pnp. I'd rather cast CC spells and heal but thats just me

[sunshadow]

Not sure about clickies, but the purple jelly cakes from the Festivult jester (Shavarath, I think?) cast Master's Touch.

[EatSmart]

The capstone is situational, but very strong where that situation occurs, and not replicatable by any other spell/ability.

My personal preference would be pure, but I'm also a fan of trying things out for yourself and experimenting. In this case I'd say take the splash as you seem to want to do it. Spend some time raiding in the same party as a pure cleric once you reach cap. See if any of the differences in ability between the two of you are things you can't live with missing out on. If there are any, you've always got the option of reincarnation.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

The real question here is how high is your STR? If your starting str was like 10 or 12 the fighter level may not benefit you as much. If you have a decent STR and CON then the fighter level would probably not hurt you at all, pick up power attack or IC with your bonus feat and you'll find that your melee dps will not be that bad - with very minimal investment, the capstone for cleric imo is not very impressive, and if you decide to take two levels of fighter you can take the class toughness enhancement.

Regarding the stigma of battleclerics...

I do not want to derail either, I have had my clonk get in groups and be told I was not a healer - by a piking FVS that ran out of SP so fast it was unreal, meanwhile I had the second highest kills, was throwing out 0 sp heals every fight, and using crowd control...

The point of that to be this: the FVS told me I was not a healer, that I was more of a battlecleric. There were only 2 other players in that group that were any good - they noticed how I played and added me. You will establish a reputation as a competent healer. I joined a tempest spine run that FVS was in and they mentioned to the party leader that i was not a healer and was a battle cleric. The party leader asked me if that was true and several people voiced their concern. I told them that I help things die, and that I know when to back off and throw heals. Enough said. You will experience some of that as well probably, but consistency will prevent it from being a lasting thing...


I mean really, I don't assume every rogue has no fort and no con just because alot of them do...

/tell XXX: dude I just healed 1/4 your hp with a burst... You wearing a con item?

[AtomicMew]

About the fighter splash stigma, it's total BS.

Unfortunately the belief that fighter splash automatically means "incompetent healer" is so ridiculously prevalent that you rarely see fighter splashes at cap. Furthermore, bad players who fail a lot tend to have this viewpoint reinforced whenever they fail with a battle cleric in the party, and then spread that belief to all their buddies, faster than gonorrhea at a swingers party.

Like others have said: being consistent and building a reputation is KEY to being a successful battle cleric. You NEED to be willing to scroll heal and use pots, which can get fairly resource intensive for a new player. Of course, this is a double standard. Even if the pure cleric in the party is twice as bad as you, he'll only get blamed half the time simply because he is pure.

If someone starts giving you **** and blaming you when a raid fails, just tell them this: "How does being a battle cleric affect burning 100 scrolls and downing 5 major mnemonics?" If they don't get the picture, then they are totally incorrigible and it is time to walk away.

[Tiro]

Atomic makes a very good point, if I can heal a major raid at 18 (Hound, Shroud, etc) then taking two levels in something else is not going to affect my ability to heal. If anything, if played correctly (i.e. knowing when to back off and just heal) you are going to be a better value to a group because you can DPS in addition to healing the party. Down the road (6 months or so) I plan on tr'n my cleric to a clonk because I prefer the survivability and damage. All in all, it's still your choice.