Is it against the rules to...

[Smitey]

I guess that thread shows a few people who couldn't get it to work. But it says to have them in party, not just select the other person.

I tested against a friend in a 2-person party in a public area and it did not function on them, but instead me, even with them targetted.

I raised a bug report, providing a video clip and it's with QA.

[Smitey]

Is it a violation of the rules to offer to cast (and then do so) a medium jewel of fortune on another player for ingame plats? A friend of mine was offering to do this and another character messaged him and said "be careful to not get banned mate" so he instantly stopped the sending of this and sent another message ingame that said "i dont offer this trade anymore" xD. but seriously is this against the rules?

It's in the Code of Conduct:

11. You may not advertise the intent to, or commit the act of, unauthorized selling or buying of game items for real-world monetary values

Store items would fall under this category


To open the Code of conduct launch Knowledgebase, then this link within the same window:
http://support.turbine.com/ics/suppo...?questionID=54

[Argosan]

you can still cast the loot gems on other players if you're in their party etc. dunno about the experience elixers though

[Bodic]

There is this RL term called mandatory donation thus its a gift for a gift. :P

So the person that has the TP to buy a cake and rez the cleric that died gets a lump of plat from another person in party for doing so is that wrong I think not.

Not that the cleric should have died if they had a full enough blue bar to warrant not using a rez shrine.

[Angel_Barchild]

This has already been addressed here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=244555 and again here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=245654 is is against the TOS to pay plat for store items. It is the same as buying plat with cash (in this case the store item) and will result in a ban.

You can cast these items on party members, for free. I have tested this and it does work (it has to be done from your hot bar). Doing it for free is not against the TOS, but any payment, even a donation for these items is the same as plat selling.

Understand these links are to the offical answer, anything else is just an argument about the hows and whys of it. Officaly Turbine says you will be banned for these actions, wether you agree or not.

[Argosan]

Now that was a helpful answer thank you angel!

[Angel_Barchild]

No problem, I just happen to know this one because of reading the forums. There are alot of arguments for and against, so without the offical answer this issue is kinda muddy, and I would really hate to see someone end up with a 3 day vaycation because of it.

[Backley]

You can cast these items on party members, for free. I have tested this and it does work (it has to be done from your hot bar).

Have you tested this since Update 8? As others have said, Update 8 made it impossible to cast these on others, even if they are in your party and you cast it from the hot bar.

[Peo]

This has already been addressed here Understand these links are to the offical answer, anything else is just an argument about the hows and whys of it. Officaly Turbine says you will be banned for these actions, wether you agree or not.

Hmm... You know, I refute that on the following grounds.

Turbine Points have a real-world monetary value, so the above Code of Conduct rule does apply.

Well.

When you obtain Turbine Points, you have obtained a limited license from Turbine as described in the previous paragraph. Points have no monetary value. You may not obtain any cash or money in exchange for Turbine Points, regardless of how you obtained those Turbine Points. Turbine Points are not your personal property. Your only recourse for Turbine Points obtained by you, if any, is to use such Turbine Points for redemption to obtain specific Game Content as designated Turbine from time to time in Turbine’s sole discretion.

Game License > Costumer Service.

Also, looking at that XP potion. It is clearly designated to be used on different people and neither is it an exclusive store item. Your zero monetary value points are buying access to a potion rather than using the clearly trade able and zero monetary value Small Eberron Dragonshard Fragments all of which is traded for a zero monetary value bonus. Which the Auction System and Trade Windows are clearly designed to allow you to do. At a guess, the Loot Potion is of no difference compared to the XP Potion.

If a CSR wishes to inaccurately comment on something covered by the Game License and supporting content then he needs to either readdress either his personal point of view and ensure it matches the company, and/or as a CSR that is aware of a problem within the CoC he needs to step forward and address the failure of properly delivered information. Such as updating the CoC since the Game License and (not even stickied threads) the forum are separate entities or so.

[Angel_Barchild]

Have you tested this since Update 8? As others have said, Update 8 made it impossible to cast these on others, even if they are in your party and you cast it from the hot bar.

I have tested it since update 8 and it still works from the hot bar.

[Gorbadoc]

This has already been addressed here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=244555 and again here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=245654 is is against the TOS to pay plat for store items. It is the same as buying plat with cash (in this case the store item) and will result in a ban.

You can cast these items on party members, for free. I have tested this and it does work (it has to be done from your hot bar). Doing it for free is not against the TOS, but any payment, even a donation for these items is the same as plat selling.

I get it, but I feel like they should have a separate rule for this. Even if Turbine Points have real-world monetary value (a weird claim), Turbine Points aren't being exchanged; it's a guest pass being exchanged. Seeing as a guest pass CANNOT be converted into Turbine Points, the two clearly aren't equivalent.

Loot and XP gems might need yet another rule anyway, because they can be pulled from chests. Suppose I pull a loot gem from a chest. No Turbine Points were paid for it; I should be able to sell it for in-game plat, right? Neither "yes" nor "no" makes sense here. If I can sell it, that will create confusion-- it's one item, but you either can or can't sell it depending on where you got it from. If I can't sell a chest-looted gem, that makes me wonder whether I can't sell other in-game items that have store-bought versions. The store sells large collectables bags. Can I sell the unbound bag I looted a year or two ago?

I think this stuff is easy enough to resolve with some smart new wording in the EULA. I just don't think this situation should be shoehorned into the rules cited so far.

[Angel_Barchild]

Hmm... You know, I refute that on the following grounds.


Well.

Game License > Costumer Service.

Also, looking at that XP potion. It is clearly designated to be used on different people and neither is it an exclusive store item. Your zero monetary value points are buying access to a potion rather than using the clearly trade able and zero monetary value Small Eberron Dragonshard Fragments all of which is traded for a zero monetary value bonus. Which the Auction System and Trade Windows are clearly designed to allow you to do. At a guess, the Loot Potion is of no difference compared to the XP Potion.

If a CSR wishes to inaccurately comment on something covered by the Game License and supporting content then he needs to either readdress either his personal point of view and ensure it matches the company, and/or as a CSR that is aware of a problem within the CoC he needs to step forward and address the failure of properly delivered information. Such as updating the CoC since the Game License and (not even stickied threads) the forum are separate entities or so.

Your argument is well thought out and does make sense. Unfortunatly Turbine has already made it's offical statement. From the link in my previous post.

"Hello all,

Let me be very clear. Selling a guest pass for in-game currency is a violation of the Code of Conduct and will result in a suspension.

Code of Conduct Rule #11

"You may not advertise the intent to, or commit the act of, unauthorized selling or buying of game items for real-world monetary values."

Turbine Points have a real-world monetary value, so the above Code of Conduct rule does apply.

~SDM"

This is Turbine's offical response, any argument you have will have to be taken up with them. Arguing over the merit of the policy is all well and good, but players need to be aware that, no matter how they interpret it, Turbine policy says you will be banned for doing it.

As for xp pots and loot gems being able to be used on others. This is working as intended, it is made so that you can give them away. Just like a gest pass, you can give them to friends, or guildies, or even random strangers. Give not sell.

[Smitey]

My testing only involved XP elixirs but these are not targetable and only work on self:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWlyha_IF-o

I imagine this is a bug rather than functionality removed.

It's really not quibbling over the fine print - buying items from the store and selling them in-game is not an intended way for players to generate plat.

If you are reported for this activity you will have no recourse because Turbine's decision is final.

[Nyvn]

I get it, but I feel like they should have a separate rule for this. Even if Turbine Points have real-world monetary value (a weird claim), Turbine Points aren't being exchanged; it's a guest pass being exchanged. Seeing as a guest pass CANNOT be converted into Turbine Points, the two clearly aren't equivalent.

Loot and XP gems might need yet another rule anyway, because they can be pulled from chests. Suppose I pull a loot gem from a chest. No Turbine Points were paid for it; I should be able to sell it for in-game plat, right? Neither "yes" nor "no" makes sense here. If I can sell it, that will create confusion-- it's one item, but you either can or can't sell it depending on where you got it from. If I can't sell a chest-looted gem, that makes me wonder whether I can't sell other in-game items that have store-bought versions. The store sells large collectables bags. Can I sell the unbound bag I looted a year or two ago?

I think this stuff is easy enough to resolve with some smart new wording in the EULA. I just don't think this situation should be shoehorned into the rules cited so far.

The versions acquirable in game are not bound to account; so they are tradable. They are clearly separate from the store versions which are bound to account.

[Peo]

This is Turbine's offical response, any argument you have will have to be taken up with them. Arguing over the merit of the policy is all well and good, but players need to be aware that, no matter how they interpret it, Turbine policy says you will be banned for doing it.

As for xp pots and loot gems being able to be used on others. This is working as intended, it is made so that you can give them away. Just like a gest pass, you can give them to friends, or guildies, or even random strangers. Give not sell.

Admit ably that topic is about exclusive guest pass selling rather than this threads, and my focus, on Loot Potions but it doesn't change the fact SCM's comment is against the very source he quotes. Also there is a need for clarification of applying to XP & Loot Potions (and other such in game obtainables) needs to be addressed as well.

Further even Turbine must abide by it's License. As a business accepting money for services they cannot simply, regardless of how much BS they tossed into the license, take your money and then simply deny the intended service. With intent to do so it is called fraud and it is illegal. To countermind such claims a valid reason must be provided on why a denial is preformed. Needless to say in a Game License vs guy posting in a buried forum topic offers very little for Turbine in a situation where the transactions were preformed without the knowledge of a CSR saying not to. In a sue happy world, it's a setup most smart businesses avoid and the less intelligent ones either foolish bank on the consumer not pursuing matters or lose sixteen million dollars for serving hot coffee.

Hence my continued advice on updating the CoC since as it stands, all CoC content is intended against real-world commercial gain while at the same time the license states all game content (including turbine points) has no value. To act otherwise would to be opening a can of worms. Clarification between exclusive items and obtainable items would be nice as well. Perhaps since it is Monday SCM will provide an appropriate official answer soon. After all, in this thread the buying and selling of guest passes only frowned upon due to the chances of abuse.

[Backley]

The versions acquirable in game are not bound to account; so they are tradable. They are clearly separate from the store versions which are bound to account.

Quick correction here, the store bags are no-longer Bound to Account, all the ones purchasable now are Bound to Character.

[Angel_Barchild]

Admit ably that topic is about exclusive guest pass selling rather than this threads, and my focus, on Loot Potions but it doesn't change the fact SCM's comment is against the very source he quotes. Also there is a need for clarification of applying to XP & Loot Potions (and other such in game obtainables) needs to be addressed as well.

Further even Turbine must abide by it's License. As a business accepting money for services they cannot simply, regardless of how much BS they tossed into the license, take your money and then simply deny the intended service. With intent to do so it is called fraud and it is illegal. To countermind such claims a valid reason must be provided on why a denial is preformed. Needless to say in a Game License vs guy posting in a buried forum topic offers very little for Turbine in a situation where the transactions were preformed without the knowledge of a CSR saying not to. In a sue happy world, it's a setup most smart businesses avoid and the less intelligent ones either foolish bank on the consumer not pursuing matters or lose sixteen million dollars for serving hot coffee.

Hence my continued advice on updating the CoC since as it stands, all CoC content is intended against real-world commercial gain while at the same time the license states all game content (including turbine points) has no value. To act otherwise would to be opening a can of worms. Clarification between exclusive items and obtainable items would be nice as well. Perhaps since it is Monday SCM will provide an appropriate official answer soon. After all, in this thread the buying and selling of guest passes only frowned upon due to the chances of abuse.

I'm not arguing the right or wrong of the situation. I am simply stating that a turbine employee has already made the offical policy known, and clearly says that you will be banned for trading store items for plat. Any argument you have is with Turbine.

As for sueing, well good luck with that.

Xp pots and loot gems found in game are not bound, so they may be traded.

[Backley]

Xp pots and loot gems found in game are not bound, so they may be traded.

Incorrect. I pulled a Medium Loot Gem in Mindsunder yesterday and it was BTA on Acquire. I looted all the non-bind stuff, clicked No on the bind confirmation, then put the gem up for roll.

[Angel_Barchild]

Incorrect. I pulled a Medium Loot Gem in Mindsunder yesterday and it was BTA on Acquire. I looted all the non-bind stuff, clicked No on the bind confirmation, then put the gem up for roll.

My information on this is second hand, so you could be right. I have not pulled one myself.

[elg582]

Simple: If Turbine didn't want you to do it, they would make it so you can't.