Is selling raid loot you rolled on cool?

[Cyr]

Basically it goes like this for me. If I see anyone buying, selling, or passing loot that has been rolled on they go instantly onto my do not group list (which generally lasts a few weeks and forever if someone gets on it a few times).

If I see people buying/selling loot before a roll (not nearly as big a deal) I make a mental note of it. If I see them do it more then once I make sure that they never get any loot I pull. If they do it habitually I avoid running with on any quest where the loot is important. Frankly any buying of selling of bound loot is poor form if you roll on other people's loot yourself anytime.

Oh and if you ever trade for something under any circumstances and get your side of the trade and don't deliver your goods you should be perma banned from the game.

[Geodude07]

I agree that the situation you describe is a bit 'seedy' but I wouldn't give anyone a hard time about it, just roll my eyes and chuckle. If you roll on something in a chest, I think most of the well-mannered people in the game would agree that you should be intending to use it, not to sell it to someone who had the misfortune to roll lower than you.

I dunno, I think it is a bit more than a bit "seedy" because it just fosters the idea that the rich get richer so to speak and the poor new guy wont ever get a shot at loot unless he pulls it (or sells some he might want to buy others he cant afford) this will in essence make it so the long time players who already have lots of good loot easily aquire more where a newer player with little to their name cant move ahead as easily.

Yes it sounds nice to be able to buy your loot when you are rich, but a new player will feel ripped off as they did contribute to the success of the run, and now that doesnt matter, all that matters is if you are mr.moneybags. The roll system was put into effect to give us an unbiased way to distribute loot without letting anyone have a real advantage.


And as for the main topic, it is really really poor form to roll and then try and sell, and that would get a nice blacklist from me.

[ddoer]

Here's a minor variation on this question... is it acceptable to sell raid chest loot that you didn't roll on?

Suppose you're running VoN on your caster cleric or something and Sword of Shadow appears in the chest with your name on it. You have no use for it, but instead of putting it up for a roll, you decide to auction it off to the highest bidder.
...

I don't understand why ppl against in-quest auction. People who are willing to make a high bid simply need the item the most. If you put in a roll, anyone may roll, and there is no guarantee that the people who roll and win actually need the item unless you know the guy in advance.

people put up things for roll by the name of "need before greed", but using a rolling system that allow greedy people to get the item rather than using an auction that could effective allocate the item to the one who really need.

Selling an item that you won from a roll is not acceptable to me, however.

[Tat2Freak]

...does anyone like tartar sauce, god its good on it.

[ddoer]

Yes it sounds nice to be able to buy your loot when you are rich, but a new player will feel ripped off as they did contribute to the success of the run, and now that doesnt matter, all that matters is if you are mr.moneybags. The roll system was put into effect to give us an unbiased way to distribute loot without letting anyone have a real advantage.

Think about this, when the new player get a useful item, say an epic sos shard or ss ring shard, he can simply sell it in the quest and get a lot of cash and large red/devil scale or get a scroll that he really need to craft his epic item. He can benefit from the plats and scales more than a shard that he may never make a ESoS/E SS Ring.

Free market has its merit. That's why capitalism works.

No one get ripped off. Every one has equal chance to get the uber loot. I would say the new (or any) player who expect to get the uber loot from another player for free with a roll is simply greedy. The loot is not suppose to be yours anyway, a free roll is a gift but not an obligation.

[rest]

So, Let me pose this question?

Let's say its VON.

Player Y (casting spec cleric. No plan to TR) pulls an eSOS shard.

Player X desparately wants Shard. Sends tell and offers 4 large scales for the shard. Or whatever. A godfather offer.

Player Y decides to put Shard up for roll because selling loot is in poor form in their opinion.

Player X rolls and loses
Player Z rolls and wins.

Player X sends tell to player Z with same offer. Player Z is a melee sort, but has no SoS, seal, or scroll. But does have a Lit II great axe that is 4 scales short of tier 3. Wants to take the deal.

Can Player Z make that deal? Is Player X in the wrong to offer to buy the loot, if it's that valuable? If Player Y had a shot at the deal and chose not to take it, is it wrong that Player Z finds the scales more valuable than the Shard?

What are your thoughts on this?

Moot point since shards are BTA. Caster cleric could use it on someone else. If they don't have a user for an eSoS, they should roll one up

[Wizard_Zero]

First off, all raid loot is "bound" and 95% of it is bound to character, so people can't sell raid loot for profit anywhere else.

I play DDO to have fun and get away from the negative aspect of the world. Greed is the bane of human existence, luckily there is less of that on DDO, but still plenty.

If someone rolls on an item they don't need, but solely to make a quick buck, I don't take very kindly to that. I surely won't play with that person again. DDO isn't about trying to make money every chance you get, save that **** for the real world.

Then again, the hardest thing in life is getting along with other people, even the selfish ones.

[ddoer]

So, Let me pose this question?

Let's say its VON.

Player Y (casting spec cleric. No plan to TR) pulls an eSOS shard.

Player X desparately wants Shard. Sends tell and offers 4 large scales for the shard. Or whatever. A godfather offer.

Player Y decides to put Shard up for roll because selling loot is in poor form in their opinion.

Player X rolls and loses
Player Z rolls and wins.

Player X sends tell to player Z with same offer. Player Z is a melee sort, but has no SoS, seal, or scroll. But does have a Lit II great axe that is 4 scales short of tier 3. Wants to take the deal.

Can Player Z make that deal? Is Player X in the wrong to offer to buy the loot, if it's that valuable? If Player Y had a shot at the deal and chose not to take it, is it wrong that Player Z finds the scales more valuable than the Shard?

What are your thoughts on this?

IMHO, nothing wrong for X to make the offer.

Player Y put it up for roll probably assume people who roll are actually need the shard.

Player Z shouldn't take the offer, at least, without agreed by Player Y first. Because if he will sell the shard, he probably don't need it. (large scaled could be farmed in Shroud, it is not a must to trade) If he does it, he probably don't want to let anyone know.

[eonfreon]

Think about this, when the new player get a useful item, say an epic sos shard or ss ring shard, he can simply sell it in the quest and get a lot of cash and large red/devil scale or get a scroll that he really need to craft his epic item. He can benefit from the plats and scales more than a shard that he may never make a ESoS/E SS Ring.

Free market has its merit. That's why capitalism works.

No one get ripped off. Every one has equal chance to get the uber loot. I would say the new (or any) player who expect to get the uber loot from another player for free with a roll is simply greedy. The loot is not suppose to be yours anyway, a free roll is a gift but not an obligation.

I am pretty much in agreement with you. I've never thought it was underhanded to auction off your own Raid loot.
The new player has as much chance at getting the loot in the first place, when the chest is opened. No expectations should exist afterwards, with what other's do with their loot pull.

Personally, I've never sold or auctioned raid loot. Simply because I had no need for money or items. I've gotten some items from rolls myself, so I've felt it only fair to be "nice".

However, I've never taken any offense to people who do offer it up to auction or others who offer items/money before the original puller said what he's doing with it.

And as I've been more involved in the game lately and started actually dealing with the AH and spending all that Plat that I thought would last forever (it did when my wants were very modest - not so much nowadays when I'm actively trying to gear up for Epics) I can see where I'll start to want to receive some money or item trades.

Whether folks would blacklist me or whether I care that they would, I'm unsure. I'm becoming "known" around the circles I run and people like me and my build. I would hope that they mention their dislike if I changed my ways of dealing with my pulled loot rather then spread nasty remarks about me and blacklist me. But who knows.

[Quikster]

...does anyone like tartar sauce, god its good on it.

I always knew there was something wrong with you....

[rexservorum]

I don't understand why ppl against in-quest auction. People who are willing to make a high bid simply need the item the most. If you put in a roll, anyone may roll, and there is no guarantee that the people who roll and win actually need the item unless you know the guy in advance.

I guess it depends on your definition of "need." Let's extend the Sword of Shadow example for this purpose.

Players A and B are both on level 12 THF melee characters. Epic Sword of Shadow will naturally appear in both of their endgame loot wish lists.

Player A is on his first life, maybe even his first character. He's run the VoN raid three times now. Sword of Shadow would be a great weapon for him to use while leveling, in addition to being useful in his eventual level 20 equipment layout. It dropped for someone, and that person has put it up for an auction. As the bid climbs into the hundreds of thousands, he becomes crestfallen because he's never even seen that kind of plat.

Player B is a TR who's run the VoN raid many times in his various lives. He's got his Mineral 2, his Lightning 2, but not his ESoS yet. Maybe he even has all the stuff to make the epic version. He's got plat coming out his ears, so when the sword goes up for auction, he wins it with no problem.

Which of these two players "needed" the sword more? Some will say A, because he doesn't have a nice weapon already and could really get some good use out of it for a long time. Others will say B because it's among the last things he has yet to acquire for his perfect equipment build.

I realize where you were coming from; someone who's willing to pony up a lot of plat for something is proving that he actually intends to use it. But the inability to pay through the nose for something does not necessarily mean that that person doesn't "need" it. There are other factors involved. This is where you get posts like Geodude's that find the whole practice of auctioning bound raid loot to be distasteful.

[Samiusbot]

As I see it the question boils down to "Is rolling raid loot to sell to other party members okay?"

To me offering something up for roll is like saying I would like to gift this to one of you but I don't want to have to pick a favorite. So roll if you think you would use it.

The sale of raid loot is not the issue.

But if you want to sale something I just gave you to someone else? No that was my gift. If you don't need it want is bad enough to keep and use it, please pass it to the next person down the line. The guy offering up his loot for roll just got screwed. Losing out on loot and probably the loot that he/she is doing the raid for.

Would you take a gift during a party and turn to everyone else in the room and try to sell it?

[mws2970]

I always knew there was something wrong with you....

This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black! :P

[Quikster]

This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black! :P

While this may be true, i certainly dont defile the good name of popcorn by putting that junk on it!

[Cashiry]

Basically it goes like this for me. If I see anyone buying, selling, or passing loot that has been rolled on they go instantly onto my do not group list (which generally lasts a few weeks and forever if someone gets on it a few times).

If I see people buying/selling loot before a roll (not nearly as big a deal) I make a mental note of it. If I see them do it more then once I make sure that they never get any loot I pull. If they do it habitually I avoid running with on any quest where the loot is important. Frankly any buying of selling of bound loot is poor form if you roll on other people's loot yourself anytime.

Oh and if you ever trade for something under any circumstances and get your side of the trade and don't deliver your goods you should be perma banned from the game.

You have to be in the game to loot chests.... where are ya fool?

[KillEveryone]

If no one wants is and it is listed as a greed roll by the original owner, fine.

If you are rolling on it to sell even though others are rolling on it to use...bad form. People won't want to group with you then.

If you are planning on selling it to the other rollers while it is in the chest, very bad form and will make blacklists. Probably earn a forum post to not group with you with a round of PMs.

[mws2970]

While this may be true, i certainly dont defile the good name of popcorn by putting that junk on it!

I prefer my popcorn with a little salt and some butter. Now back to our regularly scheduled drama and trolling!

[bruha118]

yep was in that run and not cool imo....everyone put forth an effort to complete the raid...why should any1 have too spend plat or trade items to get a piece of raid loot that they helped complete...A. keep the loot...B. give to guildie/friend...C. put it up for roll....selling/trading/ buying raid loot is not cool imo...but yes it is ylyc...but if i personally only had 1pp to my name i still wouldnt try to sell my loot, especially if i just won the roll on it...this is just my opinion

[Beethoven]

Not exactly. You can allow random chance govern or you can assign it to whom you want to.

You realize what you are saying is: putting something up for roll can mean assigning something to a specific person without roll.

Uhm, no? Assigning it without roll is called, "handing it over." It has nothing to do with the topic. No one here is disputing the "your loot, your call" bit. You want to hand your loot to another player, fine. No prob.

However, if I (the loot puller) say, "putting it up for roll to anyone who /needs/ it", is it really so much to ask for this to be respected? Now, I read it correct that's also exactly what Trudh was saying.

Also, "not everyone is honest enough" does not make the whole roll thing moot. It merely opens it to a whole different philosophical debate along the lines of: since not everyone will treat me with respect, does it mean I do not show even the most basic courtesy to everyone around me?

Myself, I like to assume everyone I deal with is a decent human person unless I have prove of the contrary. Yes, sometimes I get disappointed but to me that does not mean I will start to automatically assume everyone is bad like that (and my experience on the game so far proves the contrary. There are some bad apples out there, but the majority of gamers I ran into are actually pretty nice fellows).

[ddoer]

Whether folks would blacklist me or whether I care that they would, I'm unsure. I'm becoming "known" around the circles I run and people like me and my build. I would hope that they mention their dislike if I changed my ways of dealing with my pulled loot rather then spread nasty remarks about me and blacklist me. But who knows.

in fact, i have never put stuff up for auction, and I have never bought any raid loot. But i do like to pass useful loot to my friends who has declared they need them an item before a quest.

I guess it depends on your definition of "need." Let's extend the Sword of Shadow example for this purpose.

Players A and B are both on level 12 THF melee characters. Epic Sword of Shadow will naturally appear in both of their endgame loot wish lists.

... As the bid climbs into the hundreds of thousands, he becomes crestfallen because he's never even seen that kind of plat.

Player B is a TR who's run the VoN raid many times in his various lives. He's got his Mineral 2, his Lightning 2, but not his ESoS yet. Maybe he even has all the stuff to make the epic version. He's got plat coming out his ears, so when the sword goes up for auction, he wins it with no problem.

Which of these two players "needed" the sword more? Some will say A, because he doesn't have a nice weapon already and could really get some good use out of it for a long time. Others will say B because it's among the last things he has yet to acquire for his perfect equipment build.

I realize where you were coming from; someone who's willing to pony up a lot of plat for something is proving that he actually intends to use it. But the inability to pay through the nose for something does not necessarily mean that that person doesn't "need" it. There are other factors involved. This is where you get posts like Geodude's that find the whole practice of auctioning bound raid loot to be distasteful.

I made my argument on a thread on my server's forum that could better express my point. Take a look if you have interest: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=293109

I don't think the one has more plats has more need. It is obviously. I never compare the degree of needs. There is no way to compare. But you can compare two systems: auctioning vs unconditional roll. auctioning roughly guarantee the one who win has need, but unconditional roll does not. An alternative way has mentioned briefly on my thread is to use a minimum fee auction.

The base SoS is not a good example to me. If you keep running EV6, it is not hard to get your base SoS item as most people have it already. It isn't a kind of loot that worth to be auctioned.

Think about one more scenario, for a new player that do not have chance to run EV6 regularly like people in a large guild. They don't see an SoS Shard often, and obviously don't have too many chance to win a SoS Shard loot. It is basically very very difficult for him to get an Epic SoS. However, if there is an auction system in place, he at least can offer plats or a rare scroll to trade for the shard. (he may just farm von1 for esos scroll to trade for a shard)